I believe my novice level thread has been infiltrated by advance level debaters. While I actually do learn from good healthy debates, I just have one thing to say.........Can't we all just get along and ride in peace and harmony? The one thing I have learned the most so far is that what makes a bike, component, or part better than others is the enjoyment level of the rider. Some out there expect their bike to respond a certain way. Some want buttery-smooth shifting while others just want their bike to shift. Some want stiff rides while some want cushioned rides. Some want their bike to look like a brand new Ferrari while others want it to look like a Yugo so it does not get stolen. I will tell you what is important to me. I want my bike to have a high resale value as I have traded away things which were important to me to enter the sport. I want to one day be able to take my bike and trade it in on a 3000 bike and actually get some worth in the trade. I also want the bike to function properly and not embarrass me when I ride in some upcoming events in the near future. I don't want to show up and unload my Next or GMC Denali. I know that the "higher" the groupset up the "food chain" the higher the resale value. If I had 2 comparable bukes, one with the Sora groupset and the other with the Dura Ace, I will get more money for the latter. My question regarding all of this is what can be installed on my bike and what cannot. If I bought a Dura Ace rear DR, are there size considerations. I know its been answered a few times already but that is where I was going with the groupset questions as well as a recommendation on what component to replace first if I do. If I change out the rear DR, do I have to also change out the cassette?
Wish I found this site before Craigslist
- Thread starter simplyserving
- Start date
Generally, you want to match the cassette to the shifter ...
- 10-speed with 10-speed
- 9-speed with 9-speed
- 8-speed with 8-speed
So, you would not need to change the cassette.
N.B. Most people feel that you can interchange 10-speed Shimano Road rear derailleurs with 9-speed Shimano Road-or-MTB rear derailleurs. While many people claim success, 'I' recommend that you continue to use Shimano shifters that you match the rear derailleur to the shifter you are planning to use.
- 10-speed with 10-speed
- 8-/9-speed with 8-/9-speed
9-speed Shimano rear derailleurs are generally interchangeable with 8-speed Shimano rear derailleurs, and vice-versa.
FWIW. 'MY' analysis is that the geometry of the 10-speed Shimano Road rear derailleurs is different from that on earlier Shimano Road rear derailleurs. Again, others feel differently about this.
According to Shimano, the 10-speed Shimano MTB rear derailleur cannot be interchanged with their earlier MTB rear derailleurs ... the difference in the underlying geometry is probably similar to the difference between their 10-speed & 9-speed Road rear derailleurs.
Thanks. I have a 9 speed rear DR and casette so if I change the rear DR, I will stick with a 9 speed. Sorry I am seeming simple or rudimentary with my questions but I am trying to ensure I do not purchase/trade for something that will not work with my bike. Now that I know to get a 9 speed rear DR, my next question deals with mixing component manufacturers. Can I get a SRAM or Campy 9 speed rear DR with my Shimano STI shifters or does the rear DR have to match the shifters as far as make goes? It seems to me that the break calipers are not going to matter so long as I match reach, correct, or does the reach not matter as far as changing them out goes?
Things seem to have changed a little with alfeng's mixing and matching, but the old school of thought was that if you ran a Shimano RD, then you would normally have to run a shifter of the same manufacture but not necessarily of the same model. I don't have it with me on this computer but Shimano has a compatibility chart that is fairly easy to find with a search. It has been linked to on this forum so you could search the forum for it. Pretty much, though, any Shimano shifter that is made for the speed of your Shimano RD will shift correctly. The reason that you need to match the speeds is because of the amount of cable that the shifter has to pull to achieve a shift varies between the 8, 9, and 10 speeds. Concerning the front derailleur (FD), it has to match the the number of speeds as the RD and the shifter for it has to match the FD and RD as well. As far as mixing and matching goes, for the 9-speed, you can use any SRAM 9-speed chain and any SRAM cassette with the rest of it being Shimano. It seems like the other stuff would also be interchangeable but I am not certain as I have not tried it and none of my friends have tried it either.
The reach of the caliper arms is extremely important when it comes to brakes, however, 90% of the calipers on the market are either 47mm or 52mm and they usually have an adjustment range of 5mm - 10mm. It is best for you to measure the distance from the center of the brake mounting hole in the frame to the center of the wheel rim to determine the caliper length you require and then be sure that anny replacement calipers will reach. Another thing to consider is how much the cable has to be pulled to actuate the brakes sufficiently to stop you. Most road bike handles will work with anyone else's brakes but you have to watch out for an occasional mis-match that won't work.
When you get a long thread like this going, you are bound to get two or more members sparring on it. In order to stop that, you might want to start posting your individual questions in the Cycling Equipment section of the forum.
First, a bit on terminology. The typical abbreviation for rear derailleur is RD, and for the front derailleur, it's FD. In general components (like FD, RD, and shifters) from the same manufacturer work best together. Of course, now that you've asked that specific question, you should expect a long, multi-fonted and colored response from Alfeng about how Campy shifters are best for Shimano derailleurs. Just remember, he is in the extreme minority of bike riders and bike mechanics in terms of the "advice" he offers.
While the end-user should certainly hope that component engineers design their components to work well together OR as well as some bean counter deems to be necessary ([COLOR= #808080]i.e., R&D limitatons[/COLOR]), there are times when a particular component produced by someone else subjectively functions better than the spec'd item ...
BTW. I am surprised that you (alienator) either do not remember ([COLOR= #808080]or, it would be more surprising if you did not read it[/COLOR]) in the CAMPY ONLY blog several years ago that some OTHER riders preferred to use a Shimano front derailleur, too ...
- as I have pointed out in the past, it takes me three index clicks to shift a 6500[COLOR= #ff0000]/[/COLOR]6503 9-speed Shimano front derailleur ...
- I honestly don't recall what it took to shift my pre-10-speed Campagnolo front derailleurs, but I have to believe that it was four index clicks ...
- there is an advantage to using four index clicks because it means that the trim can be more finely tuned IF that is something which a person finds to be necessary ([COLOR= #808080]I don't miss THAT presumed capability[/COLOR]) ...
Quote: Originally Posted by simplyserving
Now that I know to get a 9 speed rear DR, my next question deals with mixing component manufacturers. Can I get a SRAM or Campy 9 speed rear DR with my Shimano STI shifters or does the rear DR have to match the shifters as far as make goes? It seems to me that the break calipers are not going to matter so long as I match reach, correct, or does the reach not matter as far as changing them out goes?
SRAM rear derailleurs were once designed to be interchangeable with SHIMANO rear derailleurs.
It seems like it was about a half-dozen ([COLOR= #808080]?[/COLOR]) years ago when SRAM chose to change the pull-rate which their MTB shifters & derailleurs used; and subsequently, SRAM chose to use the same pull rate on their Road shifters & derailleurs . My understanding is that SHIMANO & CAMPAGNOLO use a 2:1 pull rate whereas SRAM's pull rate is 1:1.
Presuming that a 1:1 pull rate means that more cable movement is required to move the derailleur cage an equivalent amount, then there IS a potential advantage to THAT design spec. But, the real world advantage was probably lost before the execution of the spec due to the almost-universal use of stainless steel cables ([COLOR= #808080]vs. the galvanized steel cables which were once common[/COLOR]).
- The advantage of the 1:1 pull does probably remain for people who never have their bike serviced (either DIY or by their LBS) or by lazy Wrenches because the initial setup (which isn't difficult with either Shimano or Campagnolo components) is probably not as critical.
That will certainly seem like a long preamble to saying that one would think that there isn't any interchangeability, but it's probably not true, BUT 'I' figure there probably isn't any reason for most of us to stray from Shimano rear derailleurs ...
- SRAM rear derailleurs have been successfully mated to 10-speed CAMPAGNOLO shifters and 10-speed SHIMANO cassettes ...
- CAMPAGNOLO 10-speed bar-ends have been substituted for 10-speed SRAM shifters ... some 9-speed Campagnolo rear derailleurs have the same geometry as 10-speed Campagnolo rear derailleurs which do have the same geometry as 11-speed Campagnolo rear derailleurs ...
Quote: Originally Posted by simplyserving
It seems to me that the break calipers are not going to matter so long as I match reach, correct, or does the reach not matter as far as changing them out goes?
The QUICK RELEASE, or lack of, on the brake calipers may be a factor which you will want to factor into your consideration ...
- the quick release allows the caliper to open further to facilitate wheel removal-and/or-insertion
- some-or-many people like to set their brake pads so that they are very close to the rim's brake surface ...
- Campagnolo stopped including a quick release on their calipers about 20 years ago (it's incorporated in the shifter) it's certainly 'okay' to have a quick release on both the shifter & brake caliper -- relatively FAT tires no NARROW rims will benefit when both are present
- it's probably not a good idea if there isn't a quick release on both the shifter & brake caliper
FWIW & IMO. When in doubt, it is better to choose the appropriate Shimano chain for an indexed Shimano drivetrain unless you have confirmed ([COLOR= #0000ff]with calipers[/COLOR]) that the width of the non-Shimano chain is the SAME as the width of the Shimano chain.
This was proven through my own personal experience on with a Shimano 105 drivetrain with a SRAM 9-speed cassette PG 970 and a SRAM 9-speed Chain but I don't recall the part number of it. With other makes of chains besides SRAM this would be a good check to do. And for 10-speed and above, all bets are off but the OP is asking about 9-speed. IMO, my bike seems to shift better with the afore mentioned mix than with all Shimano.
Oh, dont get me wrong. I realize that there are differences in opinions. Heck, I would imagine that one could argue that a particular frame color is faster than another, or that they type of shoelaces one uses makes the world of difference.
I actually gain a lot from this thread and find every person who has contributed to be extremely knowledgable. I almost sound like an old pro when I am around my other novice friends who have begun riding.
I think I get the gist of interchanging parts. Its best not to (in most cases) but some parts are interchangable and there are some which may function better than the original manufactured part.
I am now slingless and if the weather is nice this upcoming weekend (snowed in VA on Sunday), I am going to get out and ride. Probably one day one my road bike and the other on the MTB.
Is there a way to adjust the tension or amount of force it takes to separate your cleat from the pedal? The pedals on the MTB are the Time ATAC's (I believe thats what their called)? I would imagine that if so, I would want to adjust them to a setting which allows me to get my foot unclipped relatively easy. With a tubeless tire, obviously I do not have to carry extra tubes. Would it be wise for me to carry a patch kit of some sort? From what I have read, most of the flats on tubeless systems are what they call burp flats, where you hit against something which causes the seal to be compromised thus causing a flat. Obviously I need to carry a pump and levers but I am not sure what else is wise to be carried. I may just take off my road saddle bag and strap it on to the MTB when I ride.
I actually gain a lot from this thread and find every person who has contributed to be extremely knowledgable. I almost sound like an old pro when I am around my other novice friends who have begun riding.
I think I get the gist of interchanging parts. Its best not to (in most cases) but some parts are interchangable and there are some which may function better than the original manufactured part.
I am now slingless and if the weather is nice this upcoming weekend (snowed in VA on Sunday), I am going to get out and ride. Probably one day one my road bike and the other on the MTB.
Is there a way to adjust the tension or amount of force it takes to separate your cleat from the pedal? The pedals on the MTB are the Time ATAC's (I believe thats what their called)? I would imagine that if so, I would want to adjust them to a setting which allows me to get my foot unclipped relatively easy. With a tubeless tire, obviously I do not have to carry extra tubes. Would it be wise for me to carry a patch kit of some sort? From what I have read, most of the flats on tubeless systems are what they call burp flats, where you hit against something which causes the seal to be compromised thus causing a flat. Obviously I need to carry a pump and levers but I am not sure what else is wise to be carried. I may just take off my road saddle bag and strap it on to the MTB when I ride.
Yes, you want to still carry a patch kit. Even though [COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]most [/COLOR]of the flats on a tubeless tire are burp flats, not[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)] [/COLOR][COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 205)]all [/COLOR]of the flats are burp flats. You can poke a hole in a tubless tire as easily as you can a tubie. Most UST (Universal System for Tubeless) tire manufacturers suggest that you use vulcanizing glue patch instead of a glueless patch. You apply the patch to the inside of the tire following the patch kits directions. You might want to add a couple of pieces of course sandpaper to the patch kit because you need to scuff up the butyl liner in the UST tire more deeply than you would on an inner tube. If you have any doubts about using a conventional vulcanizing glue patch kit, you can buy a UST specific patch kit. Hutchinson makes one that I know of but I am sure that there are others on the market.
There should be an ALLEN bolt head on the rear of the pedal's binding ([COLOR= #ff0000]don't forget to adjust BOTH SIDES[/COLOR]) which allows you to adjust the tension ...
BTW. This might seem dodgy ...
- I'm not sure what the separation is between the two "loops" but if a snug engagement isn't important, then you can probably use a "regular" SHIMANO SPD cleat which I reckon probably has a slightly shorter fore-aft span ([COLOR= #808080]have a friend see whether or not the cleat on his/her shoe adequately engages the front "loop" before buying a set of Shimano SPD cleats[/COLOR]).
Thanks. I will take a look at the pedal for that Allen bolt head. Is there a universal direction for loosening and tightening or are they different for each type of pedal? I'm also going to get me a patch kit and sandpaper. Excellent advice. Next question is regarding shock air pressure. Is there a specific PSI to put these at for weight of the rider? The previous owner was pushing 250 and I am around 180. Also, I am sure that over time, the air decreases much like a tire. Onto that question, why does it seem that after a week of my bike sitting (road bike here) my tire pressure is significantly lower than what it was for my last ride? Is this normal or do you think I have slow leaks in my tubes? The bikes sit in an air controlled building, on its tires though (going to get a stand soon).
All the release tension adjustors I know of on pedals work by preloading a spring with the adjustment screw. As such it will be righty tighty and lefty loosey for the adjustment. In other words clockwise to make release more difficult and counterclockwise to make release easier. With respect to tubeless tires. The prevailing wisdom seems to be for a rider to put some tire sealant into the tubeless tire (Stan's No Tubes, Effeto Mariposa Caffe Latex, Slime). I'd say that the most popular with regular cyclists is Stan's No Tubes. Effecto Mariposa Caffe Latex seems to top a lot of reviews and test evaluations in terms of effictiveness. Slime is likely the most easy to find. IMHO, Slime is messy and buggers you pretty well if it doesn't hold and you have to patch. It's the messiest by far. To have a backup if the sealant doesn't hold, I'd just carry an inner tube on your rides, as well as a patch kit. Using an inner tube requires removing that tubeless valve stem, but that's easy. The tubeless valve stem can easily be removed. If it hasn't already been mentioned, I'd suggest that you get a multi-tool to carry on rides. I carry one on my road bike. A multi-tool can allow you to fix or adjust things on the go without having to call home for a ride. How fast a inner tube loses air is dependent on what the inner tube is made from, how thick the inner tube walls are, and the quality of the tube. IMHO, you should be checking your tire pressure before each ride. At worst, you should check your tire pressure before every other ride. It's easy to check the pressure and takes only a handful of seconds. Tire pressure will decrease over time. Butyl rubber in the thickness of bike inner tubes is not air tight. Staying on top of tire inflation will optimize how long your tires last and will reduce the chances of something going all pear shaped on the road (or trail). I don't think it's been mentioned, but you should stick with using butyl rubber inner tubes. Don't buy (mistakenly or not) latex inner tubes. While they are light and reduce rolling resistance, they have to be inflated every day since the latex leaks air at comparatively fast rate 10-30psi or more overnight. You might want to ask the Forum which tire sealants people like. My vote is for Caffe Latex. It's available at least at Excel Sports. FWIW, Excel Sports is one of the very best online retailers. As a bonus, they actually have a brick and mortar shop in Boulder, CO, but it'd be expensive for you to visit their store. Their online orders are handled and shipped very quickly. Their prices may not be the lowest, but they have sales and specials frequently. To top it off, their staff is über knowledgeable.simplyserving said:
As usual, awesome advice. I did in fact pick-up a Lezyne Multi-tool. I have no idea how to use the chain break gadget on it but the other tools are incredible. I acutually use the chain break tool as my flathead screwdriver.
I will have to check the online store out you recommended. I also like the idea of having tubes with me. I take it that I would just need to get the size from the tire? I know they are 26" tires but is there a wall thickness size as well dependent upon the tubless tire that is on the bike?
I will have to check the online store out you recommended. I also like the idea of having tubes with me. I take it that I would just need to get the size from the tire? I know they are 26" tires but is there a wall thickness size as well dependent upon the tubless tire that is on the bike?
How wide are tires? There are very likely YouTube videos that show you step-by-step how to break a chain/use a chain tool. It's a really easy process. Lezine makes some really beautiful stuff. It does tend to be pricier than comparable products from other manufacturers, but the build quality and finish of their tools, pumps, and etc tend to be also better.simplyserving said:
Not sure on the width of the tires. I am in Arizona for a conference. I will take a look when I get back.
First, I would like to thank-you for your service. It is people like you, who make it possible for people like me to bike the greatest country in the world.
I would recommend you go to an actual LBS, not some guy who is working out his house. I can't imagine what kind of work would have to be done to a bike that would be $400. This is an aluminum bike, so scratches are not a big deal.
Go to Performance Bike and have them check it out. They are national and they don't work off commission, so they can give you a straight answer.
Good luck, and ride on.
I would recommend you go to an actual LBS, not some guy who is working out his house. I can't imagine what kind of work would have to be done to a bike that would be $400. This is an aluminum bike, so scratches are not a big deal.
Go to Performance Bike and have them check it out. They are national and they don't work off commission, so they can give you a straight answer.
Good luck, and ride on.
You are welcome for my service. I proudly continue to serve and will do so until they either tell me its time to leave or my body gives out on me.
I would love to be able to take my bike to a bike shop chain, but unfortunately the closest one is over an hour and a half away from where I reside (Raleigh, NC or Richmond, VA). There are a few LBS but they are small and other than paying rent for a downtown shop, the services they offer are comparable to the guy working from his house. The fact he works from his house allows him to price his goods and services a little lower than the downton owners.
I cant wait to get back on my bike. The weather was horrible last weekend so I am hoping for good weather this weekend. Between my full-time job with the National Guard and the one weekend per month of drill, its been a little bit difficult to find the time, not to mention I am recovering from shoulder surgery.
I have not been asking a lot of questions lately because I have not devoted any time into cycling. I am sure that will all change once the weather is nicer and I can ride more.
I would love to be able to take my bike to a bike shop chain, but unfortunately the closest one is over an hour and a half away from where I reside (Raleigh, NC or Richmond, VA). There are a few LBS but they are small and other than paying rent for a downtown shop, the services they offer are comparable to the guy working from his house. The fact he works from his house allows him to price his goods and services a little lower than the downton owners.
I cant wait to get back on my bike. The weather was horrible last weekend so I am hoping for good weather this weekend. Between my full-time job with the National Guard and the one weekend per month of drill, its been a little bit difficult to find the time, not to mention I am recovering from shoulder surgery.
I have not been asking a lot of questions lately because I have not devoted any time into cycling. I am sure that will all change once the weather is nicer and I can ride more.
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