Wish I found this site before Craigslist

[alienator]

 
 
You know when the price on an intermediate level front suspension exceeds the price of an entire bike with full suspension something may be rotten in Denmark. Unless you are going to do super gonzo mtb'ing, super high speed downhilling, find a phenominal deal, or have $$ to burn I would stay away from rear suspension all together. Also moving parts require maintenance, and when poorly done or skipped altogether can add to the headache of a used purchase.

No, front suspension has always been expensive, whether it's for bicycles or motorcycles. More front suspension is pretty complex compared to the rest of a bike. You always have the option of not getting front suspension or of getting cheaper front suspension. No one is forcing anyone to buy the expensive stuff. The customer buys of their own free will.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by alienator .


No, front suspension has always been expensive, whether it's for bicycles or motorcycles. More front suspension is pretty complex compared to the rest of a bike. You always have the option of not getting front suspension or of getting cheaper front suspension. No one is forcing anyone to buy the expensive stuff. The customer buys of their own free will.

No to what?

Front suspension can be aquired retail starting at around $250-300. Bikes with all the bells and whistles in that price range are usually reserved for department and toy stores. Maybe I should not have used the term 'intermediate' but hard to see how that completely escapes my point. There's a good chance no rear suspension, or no front and rear suspension, at the same price point is going to see a increase in quality elsewhere on the bike i.e. frame, components, wheels, etc.

 

[alienator]

 

 
No to what?
 
Front suspension can be aquired retail starting at around $250-300. Bikes with all the bells and whistles in that price range are usually reserved for department and toy stores. Maybe I should not have used the term 'intermediate' but hard to see how that completely escapes my point. There's a good chance no rear suspension, or no front and rear suspension, at the same price point is going to see a increase in quality elsewhere on the bike i.e. frame, components, wheels, etc.

No to the idea that expensive front ends means something is afoul in Denmark. Again, no one is forcing anyone to buy anything, so given that, everything is just fine in Denmark. You haven't been forced to buy a single suspension piece, and neither has anyone else. Without knowing what goes into those "expensive" suspension pieces, it's not really credible to complain about the prices, is it? Further, people are apparently buying those suspension pieces, else they wouldn't be selling at those prices. With that it hand, it again seems that everything is just fine in Denmark and elsewhere. Value judgements aren't really proof of anything.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by alienator .


No to the idea that expensive front ends means something is afoul in Denmark.
Again, no one is forcing anyone to buy anything, so given that, everything is just fine in Denmark. You haven't been forced to buy a single suspension piece, and neither has anyone else. Without knowing what goes into those "expensive" suspension pieces, it's not really credible to complain about the prices, is it? Further, people are apparently buying those suspension pieces, else they wouldn't be selling at those prices. With that it hand, it again seems that everything is just fine in Denmark and elsewhere.
Value judgements aren't really proof of anything.

Then my post was completely misunderstood, along with the attempted clarification. The bottom of the barrel Manitou front end ($250) connected to the bottom of the barrel Voodoo ($699) did just fine for some pretty extreme mtb'ing on my part. I gander just the hard-tail with stock fork woulda done fine too. An even cheaper bike sans shocks maybe just as well. But probably not a department store bike from JC Penny with full suspension that retailed for $299 (roughly the same price as my front suspension). I believe you indicated as much.

OP asked about full suspension to which I responded for most applications it's probably not needed. That's my opinion. Maybe front suspension isn't needed either. It's really up to the OP to decide what he needs or wants to spend.

No complaining, no forcing anywhere.

Edit: just to circumvent another ring around the roses...
if $300 covers an "entry" level fork at a bike shop, what would the quality level of the suspension fork be on a full suspension bike that retailed for $300, the $300 covering the sum total of the bikes parts i.e frame, suspension, wheels, and components. Probably not so hot. That's my value judgement. Something is rotten in Denmark, or more appropriately something is rotten with a $299 bike sporting full suspension. Seemingly in line with your initial comment about department store bike suspensions not functioning properly... thus the reason for quoting you.

 

[alienator]

Then my post was completely misunderstood, along with the attempted clarification.

Yes, it was. Mea culpa.

 

[simplyserving]

Got it. I think I have taken some great points from all of the posts. Based on what I feel my riding style will be, I think I am going to go with a bike with front suspension but no rear. That is called a hardtail, correct. I've also looked at some of the Specialized rockhoppers and I think that may be my ticket. Now comes the tricky part for me, sizing. My Scott road bike is a 52cm and I feel its a great fit. I am 5'7" with a 30-31" standover height. I am thinking a medium frame or a 17 or 18" sized frame. Does this sound about right? Anyone have a bike they want to trade for a sweet guitar and amp?

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by simplyserving .

Got it. I think I have taken some great points from all of the posts. Based on what I feel my riding style will be, I think I am going to go with a bike with front suspension but no rear. That is called a hardtail, correct. I've also looked at some of the Specialized rockhoppers and I think that may be my ticket. Now comes the tricky part for me, sizing. My Scott road bike is a 52cm and I feel its a great fit. I am 5'7" with a 30-31" standover height. I am thinking a medium frame or a 17 or 18" sized frame. Does this sound about right? Anyone have a bike they want to trade for a sweet guitar and amp?

FWIW. This is probably as far from definitive as it can be, so you can ([COLOR= #808080]if you choose[/COLOR]) use it as what NOT to base your decision on ...

With the understanding that how steep the terrain is AND how skilled the rider may be, I am undoubtedly one of the wussiest MTB riders who populate this Forum ...

Therefore, the top tube length of my [COLOR= #0000ff]preferred[/COLOR] MTB ([COLOR= #808080]a Hardtail[/COLOR]) is about the same as that of the preferred top tube length of my Road bike ... with the latter being 54.5cm with a 120mm stem whereas the virtual top tube is in the same relatively short 54cm range with ([COLOR= #808080]currently[/COLOR]) a 90mm stem & zero-rise handlebar on my Hardtail. I'm 5'9".

• The smaller Hardtail frame means that the stem & bars are lower than they would be with a larger frame, so the net reach might actually be closer than I am currently thinking ([COLOR= #808080]I have a Hardtail frame whose virtual top tube was closer to 57cm, and I turned it into a Road bike[/COLOR]) if I chose to use the larger frame; but, I didn't do a critical comparison at the time AND I've been too lazy to set up the larger frame to do a this-is-better-than-that ([COLOR= #808080]for me[/COLOR]) comparison
• I have road frames with longer top tubes, and the forward reach is adjusted to be the "same" by using shorter stems, respectively.

Regardless, if you get the "wrong" frame size, some adjustment can be made with the stem length, the stem rise, and the handlebar rise.

That's a long way of saying that 'I' would suggest that you choose a slightly smaller frame than the one you are currently considering ...

BUT, someone else may be able to give you better reasons to choose the frame size which you are considering.

 

[simplyserving]

Have an offer for a Trek 8700. Well, the frame is the only thing Trek. It was built up with high quality parts. The frame size is medium. Here is the write up. Tell me what you think. Trek 8700 carbon tube frame Medium frame. Fully custom built weighing in at 23 lbs fully loaded, you could probably shed another pound or so pretty easily with a good race setup. Rock Shox SID XC Dual air fork. Rock Shox seatpost. Full XT group with XTR rear. Race Face forged crankset. Mavic Crossride UST tubeless wheelset perfect and true with Michelin Tubeless tires. Time ATAC alum pedals, Easton EC70 bar with KORE stem, new salsa grips and Titec Carbon bar ends, and the icing on the cake, a new Chris King headset.

 

[alienator]

Have an offer for a Trek 8700. Well, the frame is the only thing Trek. It was built up with high quality parts. The frame size is medium. Here is the write up. Tell me what you think. Trek 8700 carbon tube frame Medium frame. Fully custom built weighing in at 23 lbs fully loaded, you could probably shed another pound or so pretty easily with a good race setup. Rock Shox SID XC Dual air fork. Rock Shox seatpost. Full XT group with XTR rear. Race Face forged crankset. Mavic Crossride UST tubeless wheelset perfect and true with Michelin Tubeless tires. Time ATAC alum pedals, Easton EC70 bar with KORE stem, new salsa grips and Titec Carbon bar ends, and the icing on the cake, a new Chris King headset.

You should note that in terms of a bike, custom built refers to a frame built specifically for a given rider. Bike assembled with different components aren't considered custom.

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by simplyserving .

Have an offer for a Trek 8700. Well, the frame is the only thing Trek. It was built up with high quality parts. The frame size is medium. Here is the write up. Tell me what you think.
Trek 8700 carbon tube frame Medium frame. Fully custom built weighing in at 23 lbs fully loaded, you could probably shed another pound or so pretty easily with a good race setup. Rock Shox SID XC Dual air fork. Rock Shox seatpost. Full XT group with XTR rear. Race Face forged crankset. Mavic Crossride UST tubeless wheelset perfect and true with Michelin Tubeless tires. Time ATAC alum pedals, Easton EC70 bar with KORE stem, new salsa grips and Titec Carbon bar ends, and the icing on the cake, a[COLOR= #0000ff] new Chris King headset[/COLOR].

FWIW. Regardless of the size, the grade of components is excellent but the condition ([COLOR= #808080]to me[/COLOR]) is unknown AND since I haven't paid a lot of attention to Rock Shox's SID line of forks, I would offer the caveat that the bike AND components could be 10+ years old ... and, if [COLOR= #ff0000]ridden-hard-and-put-away-wet[/COLOR], I reckon the bike might only be worth 2x what a new Chris King headset would cost -- so, [COLOR= #0000ff]the as-described bike might only be worth $250 +/- ...[/COLOR]

If the bike is much newer AND the not ridden hard, then it could be worth a lot more ...

Or, its value might be somewhere in between.

If possible, get-and-post pics of the bike ... some close ups which show any wear would help. MORE information regarding the age of the components would help, too.

NOT THE BEST TEST, BUT ...

• If-and-when you take a test ride, find as steep a hill on a paved roadway that you can find ([COLOR= #808080]something like that street in San Francisco whose name I forget -- ¿Lombard? -- which meanders back and forth[/COLOR])... if you are comfortable on it, then try to find a roadway with standard 6+" ([COLOR= #808080]?[/COLOR]) curbs and then roll off curbs of the respecitive sidewalks at the corner ([COLOR= #808080]have someone spot for traffic[/COLOR]) at 4-to-6 MPH and see how comfortable you are-or-aren't on the bike.

 

[simplyserving]

I went ahead with the deal. The Mavic wheelset was worth 300 in itself. All parts are no older than 3 years (except frame of course). He threw in the Time pedals, shoes, and cleats. One of those deals too good to be true but after talking with him more, he has quite an assembly of bikes and is running out of room. He built this to race but has abandoned those hopes with a knee injury and his occupation as a fireman. I will take photos and garner mire opinions on the bike soon. With all components being XT and the rear DR being XTR, I feel I have top level components. Only think that's scares me some us the front shox. How can I tell if its good it bad?

 

[simplyserving]

 

[simplyserving]

Above was my first set of pictures of the mountain bike. I am still working on uploading more photos. I have a question regarding the pedals/cleats/shoes. He threw in a pair of Time Atack pedals with shoes and cleats. The cleats look as though they need to be replaced but I am unsure what these cleats are called. Please take a look at the photo and let me know what these are called.

 

[simplyserving]

Here are pictures of the front of the frame, chain guard, and pedal.

 

[simplyserving]

Frame, Tire, Rear Wheel Hub.

 

[simplyserving]

Shock/Headset, Front Wheel Hub, Wheel

 

[simplyserving]

 

[alfeng]

FWIW. Well, that's a nice bike ... for 1998.

Was the seller about 5'11"?

 

[simplyserving]

He was near my height, probably 5'9". He said that the only thing original is the frame and all other parts are no older than 3 years old. Do you think that's true? Obviously I can tell the shocks and seatpost are new and the headset and wheels but how can I tell if the other parts are newer? He said he got the frame and started to build him a racer. If all parts are in good condition, what would you say the monetary value if this bike is?

 

[simplyserving]

Anyone need to see any other specific photo to try to help me assess what I have here? I took a ton of photos. Also, he gave me a "parts" bag with some type of aparatus which looks like a tire pressure hose. I take it that its for the shock. He explained to me something about adjusting the amount if give in the seatpost by turning a screw inside of it. List there. He also gave me these neoprene covers which he said to use in wet or muddy conditions to cover the shocks. Are these relevant?