WKO alternative in Mac

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by 886014, May 11, 2010.

  1. 886014

    886014 New Member

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    I've been using WKO for some years now, pretty much since release in fact and find it "ok", but have become increasingly fed up with their licensing issues (ie make any changes to your hardware/software and WKO won't run). I am presently running WKO+ 2.2 under Parallels but have just been informed by Peaksware that within 12 months they will no longer provide ANY support for versions of WKO prior to 3.0. So in other words if your hard drive crashes in a years time and you need to reinstall, tough luck sunshine. Nice attitude they've got there :mad:

    That's pretty much the final straw as far as I'm concerned and I wonder what the latest is regarding power analysis software that operates natively in Mac OS?
     
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  2. jollyrogers

    jollyrogers New Member

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    What PM/CPU are you using? Options include:

    Power Agent - Free
    Golden Cheetah - Free
    Race Day Apollo ~ $125
     
  3. Hunter w/kg

    Hunter w/kg New Member

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    886014- Of course if your hard drive crashes we'll help you out. I would recommend you upgrade to 3.0 though, not just for that reason, but because of the new features like Quadrant Analysis, Multi-file analysis, updated power profiling and quite a few others. We are a small company in a niche of a niche market and while I use Quickbooks everyday, they are HUGE company with millions in revenue. I have to upgrade every two years(forced, since my entire business relies on it!) as they stop supporting the older version. We do new software releases about every 3 years and 2.2 came out in May of 2006, so that's a pretty good run. Do cut us some slack, as we make this software in order to help you and we are all very avid cyclists. We don't just do this because it's a job and we don't have anything else to do. We love cycling, power training and do it because it's a passion. At the same time, we have to balance that with the reality of business costs, employee benefits, insurance, blah, blah, real world stuff.
    Hope that helps.

    Hunter Allen


     
  4. 886014

    886014 New Member

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    Hunter, I have an email from your organisation, and I quote "... please note that this will be the last time we will be able to do this as we only re-issue once in a 12 month period and we will be phasing out support for all versions of WKO+ prior to 3.0 in the next 12 months. " Cut you some slack? You have got to be kidding! You hold a virtual gun to your customers' heads saying "upgrade or else" and then ask people to "cut you some slack"! For the record I had not contacted the company at any time within the previous 12 month period regarding WKO 2.2, or indeed since migrating to (super stable) Mac operating system several years ago. The only reason WKO 2.2 locked itself, as it infamously does, was due to HAVING to upgrade the Windoze OS in order to run WKO 3.0! Cut you some slack? Holy cow. :rolleyes:

    A "good run" hey, shouldn't that be for me to decide? If a company produces an upgraded product then it should be confident enough in that product for it to stand on its own merits. Customers should WANT to upgrade. Instead it would appear that is not the case at all and the only way to produce continuing sales is to force people to upgrade by refusing to validate their existing product! Please don't try to deny this fact, the above quote is a verbatim cut and paste from an email where I requested a new validation code. That is not "support", that is issuing a registration code for a purchased product!

    Let me just conclude by saying I have no agenda here. I am just a customer. However having purchased a product (twice, and was to be thrice) I expect it to work. And I expect it to work just as long as I choose to use it, not when the organisation who sold it to me decides I've had a "good run" with it. You have chosen to defend your company on a public forum, and good on you for doing so, nevertheless having done so the good people of this forum deserve to know what was behind my decision to look for alternatives. I most definitely have nothing against the people who work at Peaksware, indeed quite the opposite, the few people I've had contact with have been super nice. However please don't pretend to be a benevolent organisation by way of saying, "we make this software in order to help you ...". You make this software in order to make a profit. Indeed is it not true that the financial backing is from a junk-bond salesman? Nothing wrong with profit, that's what makes the contemporary world possible, and hats off to you and your success. Nevertheless I respectfully suggest the company keeps their eye on the ball Hunter, because once the cracks appear it will all come tumbling down very rapidly. Hopefully you get this situation sorted before that happens, because as a long-term customer I would be very disappointed to see that happen.
     
  5. steve

    steve Administrator
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    Isn't WKO bowser based these days? :confused:
     
  6. Hunter w/kg

    Hunter w/kg New Member

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    886014(or whoever you are- would be nice to actually know your full name)

    Only response that I have here is that there is no conspirancy here to force people to upgrade. We simply don't have the manpower to deal with the old code for years and years. Again, I am a happy user of Quickbooks. It helps me to run my business, but if I am to continue to do transactions with them, then I 'have' to buy the upgrade or switch to a different software. Period. I have no say in the matter. They don't care about me, they have millions and millions of customers and make hundreds of millions of dollars each year.

    We are not forcing anyone to upgrade. Keep using your 2.2 in parallels for as long as you want. When your hard drive does take a crap, then send me a personal email on this forum(I'll need your real name,etc) and I'll take care of you. Personally.
    I can't remember the last time that the owner of Quickbooks said he would personally take care of a customer, but I'll bet it was about 15 years ago. Something to consider about who does actually care about you 886014 and your business and all the people on this forum.

    Again, we do this because we love it. It wasn't started to make money, it was started because we love the sport, love all that's around it. Making a few bucks has been a nice side benefit. Sure, after 10 years of doing, if we were only making $20k a year salary, then I would say it's time to find a new job.

    Hope you'll continue to be a customer and I appreciate your and everyones' support on this forum. It's allowing us to start working on Version 4.0 and also a native Mac version. Nearly all the upgrade revenue is going to fund that development, just like 2.2 went to fund 3.0.

    Hunter



     
  7. 886014

    886014 New Member

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    Hunter I appreciate the sentiment but perhaps you're missing the point. I am pursuing this, not because of self interest, but because there are other users here who would be, I'm sure, more than interested in the corporate philosophy there and how it may affect them as customers. I'm not sure why you keep mentioning Quickbooks, I have no knowledge of the program, their organisation, and this has nothing to do with them. This is about WKO and Peaksware. I would hope that an organisation would aspire to be the best and seek examples of excellence to reach instead of picking examples of what sounds like a poor business model and hoping to maintain itself above it! Furthermore, I thought I made it quite clear that I have absolutely no objection to any organisation making a profit, and I sincerely hope you make more than you've mentioned.

    You say there is no conspiracy to force people to update, yet I cut and pasted an extract from an email, from Peaksware support specifically stating that firstly a registration code will only be sent once every 12 months (and I certainly don't recall reading that in the T&Cs) and secondly that would be the last time they would be able to send a registration code as, and I quote once again, "...we will be phasing out support for all versions of WKO+ prior to 3.0 in the next 12 months. ". This is NOT about dealing with old code. I did NOT ask a technical question. I did NOT ask for technical assistance. I simply asked for a new registration code because WKO had locked itself due to an OS upgrade. Incidentally that in itself is just plain crap coding, quite unbelievable in fact, but I digress.

    Now, there are two possibilities that I see. Either, Peaksware is simply chasing profit and will refuse to revalidate any existing versions of WKO in 12 months time, and that is what the email stated. I'm no lawyer but I'd be interested in the legal implications of that little song and dance routine! OR the "Support Representative" who sent me that email is in error, in which case I would respectfully suggest that's something you probably want to look into. Needless to say, as you probably gather from the tone, I was absolutely furious to receive an email telling me that's the last time WKO 2.2 will be revalidated. The salt in the wound was the only reason it needed to be revalidated was because of dreadful coding!
     
  8. jollyrogers

    jollyrogers New Member

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    Now that is some very good news. Mac-native finally!
     
  9. Ben W

    Ben W New Member

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    I upgraded to 3.0 and run it on my mac under parallels (yes I'm looking forward to the Mac version too). But 3.0 rocks. I use quadrant analysis everyday and multi file/range analysis frequently with my clients and my files. Definitely worth the money!

    I'm happy if those I'm racing against me (or my clients) aren't using it - if they're using WKO2.2 they're using a great tool, but I'm using a better one. Staying cutting edge costs :) Trying asking microsoft to support windoze98...
     
  10. 886014

    886014 New Member

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    Actually Microsoft continues to provide support for Windows 2000 (the same era as Windows 98) TEN YEARS after its released date! Windows 98 was supported EIGHT YEARS after its release date! Windows XP is projected to be supported THIRTEEN YEARS after its release date! The email I received from Peaksware support indicated they would not be activating, never mind support, would not be REACTIVATING a purchased product a total of 5 years since its release. Apparently we've all had a "good run" after all :rolleyes:

    There seems to be a gross confusion as to what constitutes "support". For an OS you used as an example, support generally means critical security updates will be provided (FREE incidentally) within that period. Activating a product that has been purchased is NOT support, that is part of the licensing and purchasing process and there can be, by definition, no time limit on it. You will continue to be able to activate XP essentially "forever", it has nothing to do with "support".

    All members of this BB now have essentially the same email from Peaksware as I received, as it has been reproduced verbatim. Clearly there was more to the email, but preceding the quoted text was a simple pleasantry, and following it the re-registration process. So I will leave it for board members to decide for themselves what's going on here as I have nothing to gain by thrashing it out further. Yes I'm angry. Yes I'm disappointed. It's certainly not the money involved I can assure you of that, but there's some pretty basic principles involved here and somebody has to draw the line.

    Ben I'm pleased you like WKO 3.0. 4 posts to your credit, 2 of which are advertising Hunter Allen seminars, the third was this one, unremarkably espousing the virtues of WKO. Nice try!!!
     
  11. Hunter w/kg

    Hunter w/kg New Member

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    Mr. 886014-
    I am very surprised that you continue to hide behind your alias. Are you too scared to mention your name in this public forum? I have asked you politely and respectfully to mention your name. You have called everyone else in this forum by our names, but you continue to hide behind your alias. That right there strikes me as quite odd and wondering if in fact you do have some agenda(even though you have said you don't), as I just don't understand why you are so being so combative. Maybe you are a competitor to TrainingPeaks and just trying to stir up trouble? I can't think of any other reason why you insist on hiding.

    Maybe YOU are missing my point. WE ARE NOT MICROSOFT. WE DO NOT MAKE BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND HAVE THOUSANDS OF EMPLOYEES TO DEAL WITH 13 YEAR OLD SOFTWARE.

    I can tell that nothing is going to make you happy and even my personal assurance to you that I would PERSONALLY take care of you is not enough to make you realize that we do care, we work hard on our policies and Mr. "886014" even though you are just a number here, I will treat you more than fairly.

    This is the last post on this subject that I am going to give my energy too. I can assure you that when your MAC hard drive dies, I'll still be here. I have been here since the creation of the software in 2003 and I'll be here in less than two years when your Mac hard drive dies. Send me a private message if you want, but I will need to know your name and not the alias that you hide behind in order to help you.

    Hunter Allen
     
  12. 886014

    886014 New Member

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    Hunter why is it so important to you to know my first name? The only person that's important to is my mother! I have told you already, I am a customer, and that, I'm afraid, is that. You can try to discredit what I am saying here all you like, and run away if you think that's the solution. Stick your virtual fingers in your ears and say "la la la, not listening" when a customer says things you don't like, the fact is you KNOW it's the truth!

    The Microsoft example was a reply to "Ben W", apparently a highly satisfied 3.0 "customer" :rolleyes: who rhetorically asked about support for Windows 98. It was a bad example for him to use as in fact MS provides excellent support WELL after the normal product lifecycle. Furthermore it has NO time or frequency limitation on activation or reactivation (well it didn't come with any, so substitute XP), nor should it.

    I thought maybe, MAYBE I had this all wrong. Maybe I somehow had made a dreadful mistake. Maybe I'd somehow misunderstood. Maybe the people on other BB littered with complaints about Peaksware licensing also had it wrong (not that you'd know about that of course, not with your fingers in your ears and all). This was Hunter after all and surely, SURELY it couldn't be true. So how then do you explain this?

    That is another cut and paste, this time not from an email but from the WKO+ v 3.0 licensing policy. Does this not confirm PRECISELY what I mentioned previously? It's there, for everyone to read, so Hunter please don't try to discredit what I'm saying! Fine, you're going to look after ME personally if I have a problem, thank you. Now what about all the other customers?

    So why did I initially bring this up? Well if you went back to my original post you'd see I didn't. I outlined why I was looking for an alternative to WKO, and one that was native to Mac OS X. It was you Hunter who asked me to "cut you some slack". Probably in hindsight not a smart thing to say to a customer who is already clearly pretty pissed off. It was you Hunter who came up and implied this whole project was for the benefit of the cycling community, and if you happened to make a few bucks out of it what's wrong with that. It was Peaksware (and I'll say "you" again, but will come back to that) who told me that all previous versions to 3.0 will not be reactivated in 12 months time. So why am I bringing all this up now? Well Hunter let's just say I don't like being treated like an idiot, and I especially don't like BS.

    Unlike yourself Hunter I don't come up on this forum crying poor, though I'm far from rich that's for sure! So as I've said, it's not the money, but that's just me. Unlike those who are happy to sell their soul to the devil, I stand by principles (despite 6 years at university business school trying to convince me otherwise ;) ). One of my key principles is to stand up for those who can't or won't do it for themselves, and incidentally thank you for those who have contacted me with support. So let's cut the BS shall we. You imply and want people to believe that Peaksware is a small, benevolent organisation who eke out a small income helping "us" out. Is it not in fact true that Peaksware's corporate governance is controlled by a venture capital company, the definition of which MUST return an extraordinary ROI? Well unless they too are "just cycling enthusiasts". :rolleyes:

    Of all the points I've made in all my previous posts, which are untrue? They are all facts and you know it. Customers have paid good money for a product and they deserve better. Since Peaksware can't build obsolescence into the product they instead try to force obsolescence (as if the hard sell wasn't enough). Not true? Well the instant v3.0 was released the link to v2.2 build 106 was pulled from the support site. Now I notice that not only is it pulled from the web site, it's been pulled off the server! How is that in ANY way related to a lack of resources as you claim (or are you struggling that badly with bandwidth)? So if a customer doesn't have build 106 and they're experiencing bugs that may well have been patched, tough luck sunshine, buy v3.0. "That will be $64.50 thanks". Ca-ching! Please stop pretending the income stream is redirected to product development for the benefit of customers. Peaksware charges for these "upgrades" Hunter, some features of which (like the nonsense "Power Profiling" results) should have been patched years ago. By the time WKO v4.0 is released, in current dollars, it would cost a customer over $320 for the initial purchase plus each of the 3 "upgrades". How extraordinarily generous of Peaksware!

    I'm sorry it has come to this Hunter, because I sincerely wished the best for the company and applaud one that does well. But enough is enough. I've said it before. I'll say it again (if in fact you're prepared to take your fingers from your ears). This is not about ME, this is about ALL of the customers. Pretend there's not a problem if you like, it makes NO difference to me!
     
  13. bwalburn

    bwalburn New Member

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    886014, I have to say that I agree with nearly everything you've posted. Hunter, you've always been very active on the forums (addressing software issues, questions, etc.) and I have purchased both your book and your software, but as I'm just now going through this retarded rigamarole with the software I'm finding it quite annoying.

    I purchased WKO+ v2.2 just over a year ago. I downloaded and tried out v3.0, and was very eager and willing to upgrade, but frankly there were and are just far, far too many bugs in the software (many of which were eventually addressed in 2.2 via version builds but have reappeared in the new software), and the outright loss of functionality (specifically to do with Polar devices) just made it a no-go for me. I don't pay to Beta test. So I was happy to uninstall the trial and keep using v2.2, which finally after Build 106 seemed to be pretty ironed out.

    Unfortunately my computer recently crapped out. I purchased a new one and then discovered when I installed my one year old copy of WKO+ that I can't activate it. I have the CD key (I purchased a hard copy of the software from Excel Sports) but the link that I'm sent to in the registration dialog box is dead, so I can't get the required Validation Code. I can't for the life of me find build 106 any more (on the TrainingPeaks site), and while I'm guessing TrainingPeaks customer service will help me out with the Validation Code, I'm also guessing that they're not going to make Build 106 available to me. I'll of course get it, but being forced to go through hoops to do so seems a bit stupid to me...geez, kind-of like I'm purposely being inconvenienced in order to beat me in to upgrading. I can't really come up with any other reason as to why the final build of a software your company sold only months ago -- a build which fixes problems in that software you sold -- would be taken down and made unavailable.

    I believe statements right on the TrainingPeaks website itself support the notion that you are attempting to strong-arm your customers into upgrading. And I'm not talking about convincing us via a superior product -- I'd be all for that -- but by disallowing them from using the software they've already purchased a license for. In my attempt to re-activate my licensed copy of WKO+ 2.2, I came across this statement on the TrainingPeaks website, which appears to me to make it all very clear:

    "Please note: WKO+ version 2.2 users must purchase an upgrade to version 3. Upgrade here".

    This is on the "Download Software" page, where I have gone in the past to get the software builds, at TrainingPeaks :: Download Software : WKO+, ERG+, CRS+, Real3D.

    This quote is not taken out of context, either. It is simply stated at the top of the web page. Anybody can follow the link and see it for themselves.

    Yes, I have old versions of Windows, TurboTax, Office, games, etc that are no longer supported by the manufacturers, but this means that they are no longer providing patches and upgrades. But I can still install and use the damn software that I paid for the use of. I apparently can't do so with my one year old copy of WKO+.

    -Brian
     
  14. 886014

    886014 New Member

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    Don't hold your breath on that. This has been mooted for at least 4-5 years just that I can recall! The situation is there is really little incentive for Peaksware to release an OS X based version of WKO as they're really not missing out on any sales. Much easier and cheaper to string people along and imply it's about to be released as a disincentive to any competition. Yes it's a PIA to have to run Windows as well, but people are simply installing a VM with Win and buying the application anyway. I suspect WKO was written in C++ and should be straightforward to port to OS X, however it probably makes little business sense to do so. It certainly takes time and resources and will require more support personnel. Again, easier and cheaper to produce one version and if somebody is running under an emulation environment just say "Sorry no support". If it were me I would be building a basic knowledge of OS X and the implications, and coding in something relatively portable. Then if serious competition emerged simply port it across.

    I've only had an opportunity to very quickly glance through Cheetah, but it looks pretty good. I think they're doing a great job. Likewise just a quick look through WKO 3.0 over a couple of nights. Apart from being buggy :rolleyes: I didn't see anything that really stood out there over 2.2. I'm personally quite interested in Andy's work on "Quadrant Analysis" and it's good to see it incorporated, but a lot of that seems to me to be "that's nice" (you pretty much know the answer before looking) and move on. Of course other people may get different milage, and that's for them to decide and not for me to say. I can certainly see why Peaksware feel they need to force people to migrate from 2.2 however! if somebody was currently running 2.2 I would certainly take a good hard look before shelling out more money is all I will say.

    As mentioned I'd be surprised (pleasantly, but surprised just the same) to see an OS X version of WKO any time soon. Pretty much the only competition Peaksware have at this stage are themselves and it's quite "interesting" (some may say "entertaining") to watch see them so consistently shoot themselves in their virtual feet! At the end of the day WKO is a good product, but the "nut and bolts" of what it does is nothing special in terms of statistical analysis. Indeed I would expect the biggest headache must be supporting the power devices (incidentally, if you lock up your data in their proprietary format I'd suggest you need your head read!). However I'd have to say their conditional attitude towards legitimate customers can only be described as bizarre. I know of a few other software companies who try something similar, but nothing quite this bizarre when considering the end users and environment in which it will be used. As I said from the outset, this attitude has certainly pissed me off and made me ready to purchase a competitor's product.

    A huge amount of effort goes into developing a software application and it absolutely breaks your heart when you see somebody stealing it from you. However I look at it this way, it's like a farmer with an orchard. The birds will try to steal your fruit, passers-by will try to steal your fruit, it may feel as if EVERYONE is out to steal your fruit! So I see that you have two choices, you can stand there all day and all night blasting away with a shotgun and you know what, the birds will still manage to steal some fruit! In the process you've driven yourself half mad, gone through 10 boxes of shells, and pissed everyone around you off. OR you can simply accept that, you know what, some of my fruit WILL get stolen, that's a fact of this part of life, take sensible precautions and instead focus on producing the best fruit there is, knowing that at the end of the day most of it is going to make it to market. The trouble with the first approach is that pissing people off is always a bad idea and simply provides justification in people's minds that what they're doing is "ok" because "that company are a pack of bastards" or whatever. It came as absolutely no surprise therefore to learn that 3.0 was hacked within a few weeks of release (and NO, before I get another weird-ass conspiracy theory thrown at me, it wasn't me, indeed I haven't even looked at the hack, but understand it was an easy one). Keep your eye on the ball, concentrate your efforts on producing the best "fruit" possible (stow the hype), and the MAJORITY of people will quite happily pay for a product. Shame the person who so needs to listen to this is too busy running around with his fingers in his ears ;)
     
  15. bwalburn

    bwalburn New Member

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    I did feel I should come back on here and report that I was contacted by a TrainingPeaks representative very shortly after submitting my request to them -- well after normal working hours, as a matter of fact. I was given a new code (yes, with the warning that this would only be done once every 12 months) and also a link to download v2.2 build 106. The link to the software download didn't work, and so I replied, and it was working the next morning.

    So, in the end, I got what I needed. Although I still think it's absolutely silly that I should need to contact someone to get the software working again, especially in light of the fact that it looks like I WON'T be able to get that help within a year's time, for now I really can't complain as I received quick help and resolution to my problem.
     
  16. 886014

    886014 New Member

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    It's good it worked out for you Brian, but I think the points we, and others, raised are just as valid as when first mentioned. Likewise I've found the individuals at the company very attentive and friendly, despite initially not responding at all, but that's really not the point, they are hobbled by the conditions imposed upon us all.

    As I recall the last major release of WKO involved incompatibility with the previous version, though I may be corrected on that as that's just from memory. Sometimes that happens with software development and customers simply accept the inconvenience. The new release comes out, and wouldn't you know it, the data format is once again not compatible. Why do you think that is?

    I never set out with any intention to stir any trouble with this thread, it was a personal quest to find an alternative and nothing more. However as it's transpired its shown some very serious reservations about the ethics of how that company is run and how customers are treated. Indeed as soon as those questions were raised the company's major proponent runs away and refuses to face the music. What does that say?

    For the record I tried version 3.0 as previously mentioned and, apart from dreadful bugs, found really very little to get even remotely excited about. Indeed even while the trial was still current I couldn't be bothered opening and importing the data to it! I'm not about to come up here and tell anyone not to buy this software, that's an individual choice. But I was certainly prepared to cough up (yet again) for the "upgrade" but simply can't bring myself to do it based on the ethical perspectives uncovered. On the other hand, to any competitors wondering about releasing their own version I'd say your window of opportunity is well and truly open. The major software provider takes a very small market segment, further segments it to focus on the absolute miniscule segment of coaches, then systematically pisses off all the other customers with bizarre and ever changing licensing restrictions that make them feel like criminals! I'd say the lamb is about to be slaughtered, and I for one won't be shedding a tear when it happens, despite the tremendous respect I (still) have for those surrounding it.
     
  17. Squint

    Squint New Member

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    Their customer support regarding activation codes recently improved after being called out on it publicly and repeatedly. Prior to that, people reported being accused of piracy, being told it was the last time, lots of attitude, and even outright denial.
     
  18. perrygeo

    perrygeo New Member

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    Yep. I experienced all of the above after I reformatted my hard drive. After raising a huge stink about it and berating them in my blog (which has a decent sized tech-savy audience), they finally decided to give me a key to activate the software I had paid them for.

    It doesnt matter to me if they've improved that policy or not. Theytreated me, a paying customer, like dirt and will never ever see my business again.

    Besides (and more relevant to the topic of this thread), Golden Cheetah is actually a superior tool in so many ways.
     
  19. tgriffy

    tgriffy New Member

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    I just registered on the forum, looking for a specific answer to a question about using my PowerTap with the Joule 2.0. As I browsed through the forum I saw the WKO alternative in Mac subject and jumped in to see if there were some developments here. I knew about Cheetah and also knew that it didn't do for me what WKO has always done. So no news on the Mac front.

    I'm amazed at the extent of vitriol espoused towards Peaksware by a couple of folks. Hunter Allen demonstrated what to me was an amazing responsiveness -- sure, the company's customer service reps seemed insensitive and I'm sure displayed infuriating lack of responsiveness. But I always judge people that are providing me service or products not JUST by what they do the first time around but how they fix issues that come up. And I've got to say, seems to me the folks at Peaksware responded appropriately.

    And although I'm sorry that 6 years of business school (6?) couldn't fix this, but if companies don't make that dreaded, evil profit then they're not around to provide support to anyone, anytime. I'm quite happy to pay Peaksware to keep coming up with what I believe to be a great product that I use almost every single day. Every cyclist I know that is willing to pay for software also uses it, because it is the best.

    Oh, by the way, 886014 if you return to the forum and read this, I am a customer. With no quotation marks or inverted commas around the word.
     
  20. 886014

    886014 New Member

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    Yes of course I read this. Maybe once you've actually used the product for some time, you may be able to actually add something to the discussion. Let's hope however you don't find yourself in the same position as the rest of us who have received responses from the company indicating that if, for any reason, the product requires to be reinstalled they won't issue a code to do so ... well except for myself as "an exception" by Hunter.

    One may have thought before bumping the thread to the top, and I'm sure Peaksware won't be exactly thanking you for that, but that's your business, you may have paid a little more attention to what was ACTUALLY being said in the thread instead of jumping to your own false conclusions. Had you bothered to do so, quite apart from not "playing the man", you would have read that I have absolutely no objection to profits being made by organisations, and I'm sorry you find my academic pursuit of just that objective so offensive. You would also have noted that ALL the people who posted here said the same thing, precisely the opposite to what you suggest, that the actual people we dealt with within the company were excellent to deal with, it was the core policies with which we took exception. Heck, before posting you may have even done a Google search and found the same theme being echoed by other users around the forums. Easier to play the man I guess. Furthermore, anything other than a cursory glance through the thread before hitting the reply button and you may have seen that the the reasons for the quotes around "customer" was because Ben Wooliscroft, who thought the upgrade to 3.0 was so worthwhile, was actually an agent for the company and uses the forum to spruke Hunter Allen seminars! Now there's a impartial source!

    Anyway, welcome to the forum, let's hope next time you post you can actually contribute something useful.

    Incidentally, for those who may be interested, I uninstalled 3.0. I saw it as no significant upgrade over the previous version, others may have a different opinion and that's entirely their business.
     
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