Wobbly Hub

Dave Kahn said:

Keith Willoughby <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I went in, told him what the problem was, and asked him to adjust the
cone. He told me he'd have to strip it down to find out the
problem. Fair enough, I thought. I'd rather he just tightened it a bit
to see if that worked, but his way was the right way to go. He then told
me that if there was a problem in the hub, it wouldn't go back
together.

How could it not go back together? If you bring a rideable wheel to a
decent bike mechanic he should be able to get inside the hub and at
least put it back into a similarly rideable mode for you, no matter
what horror stories he finds inside.

That's what I thought. I think he was being deliberately awkward. In
fact, I'd rather he just tightened it a fraction, as I asked, but he
insisted he had to service it.

Quoted message said:

(Short of needing an oxy-acetylene torch to get inside it.) You really
do need to learn to service your own wheels to free yourself from this
sort of nonsense.

Aye. He's probably done me a favour in the long run.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
"He swapped five photos of his wife
For one of Barry John"

Keith Willoughby said:

Dave Kahn wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(Short of needing an oxy-acetylene torch to get inside it.) You really
do need to learn to service your own wheels to free yourself from this
sort of nonsense.

Aye. He's probably done me a favour in the long run.

I'm sure he has. It's a great buzz to be riding a bike that's rolling
really beautifully and to know it's all down to clever little you and
your little tool kit. You will make a few errors now and then, but so
what? That's how you learn. Go for it,

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

"Dave Kahn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keith Willoughby said:

Dave Kahn wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(Short of needing an oxy-acetylene torch to get inside it.) You really
do need to learn to service your own wheels to free yourself from this
sort of nonsense.

Aye. He's probably done me a favour in the long run.

I'm sure he has.

He really has. You learned a valuable lesson.

And also, you should paint his silhouette in black on your "idiots
identification chart".

Quoted message said:

It's a great buzz to be riding a bike that's rolling
really beautifully and to know it's all down to clever little you and
your little tool kit. You will make a few errors now and then, but so
what? That's how you learn. Go for it,

Just make sure you locate a decent LBS who *can* put it back together the odd
time that you can't :-)
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen

in message <[email hidden]>, Keith Willoughby
([email hidden]'😉 wrote:

Just a thought: is 'wobbly hub' an anagram of Willoughby?

Quoted message said:

I have Zinn to guide me, but just to check with you lot - what do I
need?

A couple of cone spanners (or would one cone spanner and an
adjustable do?).

Yes.

Quoted message said:

Are there any clever ways I can find out what size
spanner I need, rather than trying to find a ruler and measuring it,
with all the innacuracy involved there?

13mm/15mm front, 15mm/17mm rear. Usually. Remember that you need to use
the 'real' cone spanner (which is thin) on the cone itself, so you have
to use the adjustable on the lock nut.

Quoted message said:

Grease.

Yes.

Quoted message said:

A casette removing tool? How do I find out what kind I need? Hell, how
do I tell a casette from a free-wheel type? (It's a ~5 year old Giant
MTB, 7 speed cogs)

Probably not (although to do a proper job you'd need one). If it's just
loose cones then you can tighten up a little from the non-drive side.
If it's knackered balls on the NDS then you can replace 'em easy
enough. Unfortunately any knackered balls are more likely to be on the
drive side, in which case you are going to have to get the cassette
off.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Tony Blair's epitaph, #1: Here lies Tony Blair.
Tony Blair's epitaph, #2: Trust me.

Mark South said:

Just make sure you locate a decent LBS who *can* put it back together the odd
time that you can't :-)

It's easier these days than once it was. You've got Sheldon Brown and
Park Tools on the web, plus urc and rbt on Usenet. Still, just
occasionally you may have to take it to a grown-up and confess what
you did.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

On 2/6/04 10:05 pm, in article
[email hidden], "Simon Brooke"

Quoted message said:

Probably not (although to do a proper job you'd need one). If it's just
loose cones then you can tighten up a little from the non-drive side.
If it's knackered balls on the NDS then you can replace 'em easy
enough. Unfortunately any knackered balls are more likely to be on the
drive side, in which case you are going to have to get the cassette
off.

You don't have to take the cassette off. If you undo the cones on the non
drive side you can pull the axle out from the drive side.. Don't need to
faff with the cone on the drive side at all, leave it fixed to the axle.

The trick with making sure everything is clean and dry before putting it
back together is important and you have to be careful to make sure all the
balls stay put, but in any case there is absolutely no need to remove the
cassette.

...d

[email hidden] (Dave Kahn) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Keith Willoughby <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

...He then told
me that if there was a problem in the hub, it wouldn't go back
together.

How could it not go back together? If you bring a rideable wheel to a
decent bike mechanic he should be able to get inside the hub and at
least put it back into a similarly rideable mode for you, no matter
what horror stories he finds inside.

what if the axle is broken? If I ran a bike shop I wouldn't
reassemble such a beast even if it were possible to do so. I would
also give a similar set of qualifications over what the problem could
turn out to be even just to set expectations. He does sound rather
rude though as Keith tells it which would have similarly put me off
him

best wishes
james

On 3/6/04 12:34 pm, in article
[email hidden], "james"

Quoted message said:

what if the axle is broken? If I ran a bike shop I wouldn't
reassemble such a beast even if it were possible to do so. I would
also give a similar set of qualifications over what the problem could
turn out to be even just to set expectations. He does sound rather
rude though as Keith tells it which would have similarly put me off
him

If the axle is broken it will fall apart anyway, self-dissassembly.

If the axle is bent you can tell that without dismantling the wheel.

If it comes apart it will go back together.

...d

David Martin said:

On 2/6/04 10:05 pm, in article
[email hidden], "Simon Brooke"

Quoted message said:

Probably not (although to do a proper job you'd need one). If it's just
loose cones then you can tighten up a little from the non-drive side.
If it's knackered balls on the NDS then you can replace 'em easy
enough. Unfortunately any knackered balls are more likely to be on the
drive side, in which case you are going to have to get the cassette
off.

You don't have to take the cassette off. If you undo the cones on the non
drive side you can pull the axle out from the drive side.. Don't need to
faff with the cone on the drive side at all, leave it fixed to the axle.

Haylp! Haylp! 🙂

I've bought a cone spanner, some grease, some new bearings, and with my
trusty Zinn, I've tried to overhaul the rear hub.

I took out the skewer, undid the non-drive side cone/nut, took out the
axle - then got completely confused. I'm not sure what I was expecting,
but this ain't it.

On the non-drive side, I can see the bearings behind a black plastic or
rubber seal. Is that the one I'm supposed to remove?

On the drive side, I'm thoroughly confused. The bearings that for some
reason I expected to see handily are half-way down inside the hub. What
I can see is a depth of splined entryway covering them. Am I supposed to
remove that? Do I need to go and get a tool to do so? Which one?

Unfortunately, two of the bearings fell out of the drive side (I caught
them, mind) so I can't even just put it all back together, because
there's no way I can manouvre them into place.

Where did I go wrong?

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
"Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich"
- Peter Ustinov

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On the drive side, I'm thoroughly confused. The bearings that for some
reason I expected to see handily are half-way down inside the hub. What
I can see is a depth of splined entryway covering them. Am I supposed to
remove that? Do I need to go and get a tool to do so? Which one?

Sounds like a freewheel rather than a cassette hub.

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, two of the bearings fell out of the drive side (I caught
them, mind) so I can't even just put it all back together, because
there's no way I can manouvre them into place.

If you can't get at them you'll need to remove the freewheel (if I'm right).
Requires a suitable freewheel extractor and either a vice or a big spanner
(they tend to be quite tight - esp on tandems!)

How about a photo?

cheers,
clive

On 3/6/04 4:09 pm, in article [email hidden], "Keith

Willoughby said:

I've bought a cone spanner, some grease, some new bearings, and with my
trusty Zinn, I've tried to overhaul the rear hub.

I took out the skewer, undid the non-drive side cone/nut, took out the
axle - then got completely confused. I'm not sure what I was expecting,
but this ain't it.

On the non-drive side, I can see the bearings behind a black plastic or
rubber seal. Is that the one I'm supposed to remove?

This should be easily removable with an appropriate tool (screwdriver if a
finger won't work.

Quoted message said:

On the drive side, I'm thoroughly confused. The bearings that for some
reason I expected to see handily are half-way down inside the hub. What
I can see is a depth of splined entryway covering them. Am I supposed to
remove that? Do I need to go and get a tool to do so? Which one?

That depends. Can you reach the bearings? with a little finger? (I can do
this with the little finger but not necessarily with the first finger) If
you need a tool it will be either a splined freewheel remover or a lockring
tool.

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, two of the bearings fell out of the drive side (I caught
them, mind) so I can't even just put it all back together, because
there's no way I can manouvre them into place.

Yes you can, balance them on the end of the axle which you then put in the
other way round till you have pushed them up to the right level. Then use a
thin stick (ice lolly stick would do) to manouveur them into place if you
can't get a finger to them. (Best done with the wheel held horizontal, drive
side up)

Quoted message said:

Where did I go wrong?

As clive said, photos would help.

...d

Clive George said:

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On the drive side, I'm thoroughly confused. The bearings that for some
reason I expected to see handily are half-way down inside the hub. What
I can see is a depth of splined entryway covering them. Am I supposed to
remove that? Do I need to go and get a tool to do so? Which one?

Sounds like a freewheel rather than a cassette hub.

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, two of the bearings fell out of the drive side (I caught
them, mind) so I can't even just put it all back together, because
there's no way I can manouvre them into place.

If you can't get at them

Having poked about a bit, I now think I could probably get them in, as
long as I slather some grease around a bit to hold them. I won't be able
to get at it to clean it out, though.

Quoted message said:

you'll need to remove the freewheel (if I'm right). Requires a
suitable freewheel extractor and either a vice or a big spanner (they
tend to be quite tight - esp on tandems!)

Bugger.

Quoted message said:

How about a photo?

I'm flattered, but I'm not ready for that kind of commitment right now.

<cough>

http://www.flat222.org/keith/hub1.jpg (cog side)
http://www.flat222.org/keith/hub2.jpg (other side)

Ta.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
"Once Allende comes to power we shall do all within our power
to condemn Chile and all Chileans to utmost deprivation and poverty."
-- Edward Korry

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How about a photo?

I'm flattered, but I'm not ready for that kind of commitment right now.

:-)

Quoted message said:

http://www.flat222.org/keith/hub1.jpg (cog side)
http://www.flat222.org/keith/hub2.jpg (other side)

Hooray, excellent, helpful photos!

Is that hole in the floor waiting to suck up all your little balls?

Yup, that's a freewheel, not a cassette.

You should be able to do the non drive side without pulling anything else
off (including that black cap) - the balls will come out easily, then you
can clean with rags/etc as appropriate, then when reassembling grease will
hold the balls in place.

Drive side may be harder, since they're quite deep - I think I'd pull the
freewheel off first. Once you've got the proper tool (5 quid?) it isn't that
hard. (it's easier with the axle in, so you can use the q/r to hold the tool
in place while you're spannering).

cheers,
clive

Keith Willoughby:

Quoted message said:

http://www.flat222.org/keith/hub1.jpg (cog side)
http://www.flat222.org/keith/hub2.jpg (other side)

Yeah, that's a screw-on freewheel all right. The tool you need to remove it
is only about £5. But you shouldn't really need to remove it unless you
really want to.

To put the bearings back in place, the best thing to use is the tip of a
biro lid dabbed with a bit of grease to make the bearing stick to it.

The way I clean my hubs is spray on a bit of solvent then flush the cack out
with a hose and use J-cloths to dry it thoroughly before smearing liberally
with grease.

d.

On 3/6/04 5:10 pm, in article [email hidden], "Keith

Willoughby said:

<cough>

http://www.flat222.org/keith/hub1.jpg (cog side)

It's a freewheel. You'll need a tool to get it off (if you need to get it
off). Get a rag soaked in a suitable cleaner and a strong but thin stick and
use that to clean it out. I find putting the hub over a suitable pot and
spraying WD40 or similar is very good for catching the balls as they drop
out.

The tool is cheap but you will need a big spanner or a vice (as previously
mentioned). This will make access to the bearings much easier.

Quoted message said:

http://www.flat222.org/keith/hub2.jpg (other side)

Don't remove the plastic. Just remove the balls then wipe well with a rag on
the actual races.

When reassembing, do the non-cog side first. Place a thick smear of grease
in the cup and press the right amount of balls into it.then insert the axle.
This will stop the balls falling out.

Turn the wheel over and move the axle so teh end is just below the bearing
cup for the drive side. Now you can squirt a load of grease in and use a
suitable stick (such as teh Q/R skewer) to get the grease into the cup. Drop
the balls in and push them to the side with the stick then push the axle
right the way up, wipe off the excess grease and replace the cone nuts.

Job done.

A bit fiddly and not as good as if you do manage to get the freewheel off,
but not impossible .

Don't drop the bearings down the plughole..

...d

Clive George said:

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How about a photo?

I'm flattered, but I'm not ready for that kind of commitment right now.

:-)

Quoted message said:

http://www.flat222.org/keith/hub1.jpg (cog side)
http://www.flat222.org/keith/hub2.jpg (other side)

Hooray, excellent, helpful photos!

Is that hole in the floor waiting to suck up all your little balls?

🙂

It's a patio table. That's where the umbrella would go.

Quoted message said:

Yup, that's a freewheel, not a cassette.

You should be able to do the non drive side without pulling anything else
off (including that black cap) - the balls will come out easily, then you
can clean with rags/etc as appropriate, then when reassembling grease will
hold the balls in place.

Right.

Quoted message said:

Drive side may be harder, since they're quite deep - I think I'd pull the
freewheel off first. Once you've got the proper tool (5 quid?) it isn't that
hard. (it's easier with the axle in, so you can use the q/r to hold the tool
in place while you're spannering).

Cheers! I take it that you only need a chain-whip for the cassette type,
then?

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
"You have nothing to fear, but fear itself....and monsters."
- Richard Herring

davek said:

Keith Willoughby:

Quoted message said:

http://www.flat222.org/keith/hub1.jpg (cog side)
http://www.flat222.org/keith/hub2.jpg (other side)

Yeah, that's a screw-on freewheel all right. The tool you need to remove it
is only about £5. But you shouldn't really need to remove it unless you
really want to.

To put the bearings back in place, the best thing to use is the tip of a
biro lid dabbed with a bit of grease to make the bearing stick to it.

Hah. Neat trick. I may well do this rather than take the cogs
off (Saves another trip to Halfords) but it's nice to know what type I
have now.

Quoted message said:

The way I clean my hubs is spray on a bit of solvent then flush the cack out
with a hose and use J-cloths to dry it thoroughly before smearing liberally
with grease.

Kewl. Ta.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
I'm feeling kind of Limehouse Chinese Laundry blues

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cheers! I take it that you only need a chain-whip for the cassette type,
then?

Yup.

(there are specific cases where you can/do use one for a freewheel, but
fortunately you won't meet them :-) )

cheers,
clive

David Martin wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Job done.

Ta.

I've had to postpone the refitting. The damned axle was bent (which
might explain why it there was play!) and Halfords were out of
stock. Have to go to a bike shop tomorrow for a new one. *sigh*.

--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/
Train whistle blowing, makes a sleepy noise

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 3/6/04 5:10 pm, in article [email hidden], "Keith

Willoughby said:

<cough>

http://www.flat222.org/keith/hub1.jpg (cog side)

It's a freewheel. You'll need a tool to get it off (if you need to get it
off). Get a rag soaked in a suitable cleaner and a strong but thin stick and
use that to clean it out. I find putting the hub over a suitable pot and
spraying WD40 or similar is very good for catching the balls as they drop
out.

The tool is cheap but you will need a big spanner or a vice (as previously
mentioned). This will make access to the bearings much easier.

If you use a spanner, wear some heavy gloves. The spokes are very good at
taking the skin off your knuckles when the spanner slips. Or so my friends tell
me ;-)
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen