Woman jailed over cyclist's death

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by Trevor S, Jul 24, 2003.

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  1. Trevor S

    Trevor S Guest

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  2. Alan Erskine

    Alan Erskine Guest

  3. Shabby

    Shabby New Member

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    What a croc.

    2yrs & 3 months for killing someone, just for not having the sense to get a taxi home when you plan to get wasted.

    Who's ever seen a 37 year old at a rave anyway?
     
  4. Malvern_star

    Malvern_star New Member

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    Is THAT all!!

    2 years and 3 months for killing someone through sheer negligence and seriously injuring another.

    That penalty is nearly as stiff as missing a tax return or mountain biking in a national park.
     
  5. Trevor S

    Trevor S Guest

    Shabby <[email protected]> wrote in news:3f20cae9$1_1 @news.chariot.net.au:

    > What a croc.
    >
    > 2yrs & 3 months for killing someone, just for not having the sense to get a taxi home when you
    > plan to get wasted.
    >
    > Who's ever seen a 37 year old at a rave anyway?

    Agreed, simpily an indication the law is an ass ! IMO it should me manslaughter (or in these PC
    times, Personslaughter I guess) Want to kill someone ? Run them down in your car while 1/2 pissed...

    --
    Trevor S

    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." -Albert Einstein
     
  6. Paulus

    Paulus Guest

    No, no, no! The correct way to do it is run em over sober (line em up better), then have a few ales.

    "Trevor S" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Shabby <[email protected]> wrote in news:3f20cae9$1_1 @news.chariot.net.au:
    >
    > > What a croc.
    > >
    > > 2yrs & 3 months for killing someone, just for not having the sense to get a taxi home when you
    > > plan to get wasted.
    > >
    > > Who's ever seen a 37 year old at a rave anyway?
    >
    > Agreed, simpily an indication the law is an ass ! IMO it should me manslaughter (or in these PC
    > times, Personslaughter I guess) Want to kill someone ? Run them down in your car while 1/2
    > pissed...
    >
    > --
    > Trevor S
    >
    >
    > "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." -Albert Einstein
     
  7. Leon

    Leon Guest

    This is a joke. This shows it pays to be a criminal in Australia. Less than 3yr sentence for taking
    someones life. Worst is that she might be only doing weekend detention for 3 yrs or even out in less
    then 2 yrs.

    I am going to start killing tomorrow.

    "Trevor S" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/25/1059084190343.html
    >
    > --
    > Trevor S
    >
    >
    > "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." -Albert Einstein
     
  8. RideToEat

    RideToEat New Member

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    The 2 and a 1/2 years sounds like an appropriate sentence to me. I know it's horrible for the victims and their families, but it wasn't a callous act - just a stupid mistake.

    I don't know about the weekend detention, though. Who said that could happen?
     
  9. On 28 Jul 2003 13:24:07 GMT, Trevor S <[email protected]> wrote:

    >suitability of the sentence:) I agree it was a mistake but she took a persons life, does it matter
    >if it was deliberate or not ? You seem to be saying that if she killed the person deliberately,
    >that would be worse ?

    Yes.

    ---
    Cheers

    PeterC

    [Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
    [and there's nothing you can do about it at all]
     
  10. RideToEat

    RideToEat New Member

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    Yep, that's what I'm saying (and I think the law says it matters too).

    Don't get me wrong. It fills me with terror that that could happen to me. I often ride on that very same road at the same time of the weekend, too. And I feel terrible for the victims and their families.

    But this woman didn't go on a killing spree. She hadn't had enough sleep, and was stupid for getting in her car. She's going away for at least two and a half years.

    Sorry for having some objectivity.
     
  11. Trevor S

    Trevor S Guest

    RideToEat <[email protected]> wrote in news:3f2632f2$3_3 @news.chariot.net.au:

    <snip>

    > Yep, that's what I'm saying

    I disagree vehemently, the outcome is the important issue, not how it was achieved.

    >(and I think the law says it matters too).

    Indeed, but then as has been shown on numerous occasions, the laws an ass
    :)

    > But this woman didn't go on a killing spree.

    Sure she did, check the article, a person dies, if she had killed three, would that be a spree and
    we throw away the key ? or simpily stupidity ?

    > She hadn't had enough sleep, and was stupid for getting in her car.

    Agreed, but we don't punish people for stupidity, or the Goals would be full :) We punish them for
    their actions...

    > She's going away for at least two and a half years.

    Indeed, take a life get 2 1/2 years.. seems wholly inadequate to me, especially in an instance like
    this... and no I don't advocate an eye for an eye :) but I would have thought at minimum a decade
    and then garnish her wage for another decade at say 20% for recompense to the relatives.

    > Sorry for having some objectivity.

    IMO you don't have any objectivity but I respect your opinion, just disgaree with it vehemetly :)
    There is no objectivity, you can't take it back, it's final, it's not like stealing a car or a
    pushbike, it's a life, Persoanly I could suffer the lost of anything, excpet my life.....

    As an aside, the US Government has a bill before congress where this sort of Goal time would be
    given to people downloading MP3's, now lets put THAT in perspective.

    --
    Trevor S

    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." -Albert Einstein
     
  12. Theo Bekkers

    Theo Bekkers Guest

    "Trevor S" wrote

    > I disagree vehemently, the outcome is the important issue, not how
    it was
    > achieved.

    Suppose you were trimming your hedge and you carelessly let a branch fall on the footpath, someone
    walking past just at that moment trips on it, does a spectacular cartwheel and lands flat on his
    back unhurt. A passing bus driver witnesses this and his attention is distracted for a secvond, bus
    runs into a tree and 20 people die.

    Do you expect to be hung for the outcome? Should the bus driver be hung for the outcome? Should the
    pedestrian be hung for the outcome because he wasn't looking where he was going? Shall we hang them
    all? I suspect the driver will be punished for your carelessness and that you will receive no blame.

    > As an aside, the US Government has a bill before congress where this
    sort
    > of Goal time would be given to people downloading MP3's, now lets
    put
    > THAT in perspective.

    Nobody does that unintentionally. It is a deliberate act of theft.

    Theo
     
  13. The point that Theo seems to miss is that jail sentences are not just to punish people who commit
    crimes, but also to act as a deterrent to people who may follow the same path. If that lady had
    recevied 10 years, a lot more people would think twice about driving under the influence of drugs.
    And remember .. she chose to

    - LB
     
  14. Theo Bekkers

    Theo Bekkers Guest

    "Luther Blissett" wrote
    > The point that Theo seems to miss is that jail sentences are not
    just to
    > punish people who commit crimes, but also to act as a deterrent to people who may follow the same
    > path. If that lady had recevied 10 years, a lot more people would think
    twice
    > about driving under the influence of drugs. And remember .. she
    chose to

    If a sentence is to act as a deterrent for another crime that has not yet been committed, it is
    probably unjust. And will most likely be appealed.

    Theo
     
  15. Hippy

    Hippy Guest

    "Luther Blissett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > If that lady had recevied 10 years, a lot more people would think twice about driving under the
    > influence of drugs. And remember .. she chose to

    Actually the drugs didn't play a part in the actual crash. It was the lack of sleep, apparently. If
    anything, she should have had more gear.. maybe she wouldn't have fallen asleep at the wheel? 24
    hours without sleep was found to be equivalent to a 0.1 BAC IIRC. How many people out there drugs or
    no drugs are too tired to drive safely? A bloody lot I imagine!

    What was she actually charged with and why was it not a manslaughter charge?

    hippy
     
  16. "Trevor S" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > Agreed, but we don't punish people for stupidity, or the Goals would be full :) We punish them for
    > their actions...

    Do we?

    An incident that stuck in my memory from about 14 years ago of a truck driver on Springvale Rd in
    Melbourne who had a minor disagreement with two cyclists. They then rode on along a service lane.
    The truckie followed them into the service lane and intentionally drove very close by. The female
    rider was caught by the rear wheels and pinned - luckily not fatally. She then spent something like
    4 months in hospital to recover from her injuries.

    In the court case the truckie was found guilty of culpable driving. The judge gave him a big fine
    but didn't remove his licence for 3 months because he felt it "would not be fair to remove the
    truckie's ability to earn a living". This judge may still be on the bench.

    In my opinion this action was far more heinious than that of the woman on The Esplanade, but a jail
    sentence was never on the cards.

    Deliberate aggressive traffic action - no cyclist death (only by luck) - fine imposed. Stupid
    traffic negligence - cyclist death occurs unluckily - prison term

    Seems to me there's little reason at all for our punishments.

    Cheers Peter
     
  17. On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:38:54 +1000, Luther Blissett
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >The point that Theo seems to miss is that jail sentences are not just to punish people who commit
    >crimes, but also to act as a deterrent to people who may follow the same path. If that lady had
    >recevied 10 years, a lot more people would think twice about driving under the influence of drugs.
    >And remember .. she chose to

    You don't think that losing 2 1/2 years of freedom isn't a big hunk out of someone's life? I tell
    you, the prospect of even spending 12 months in jail acts as a pretty good incentive for me to stay
    OUT of it.

    ---
    Cheers

    PeterC

    [Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
    [and there's nothing you can do about it at all]
     
  18. D&M Johnston

    D&M Johnston Guest

    "Peter Cremasco" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 21:38:54 +1000, Luther Blissett
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >The point that Theo seems to miss is that jail sentences are not just to punish people who commit
    > >crimes, but also to act as a deterrent to people who may follow the same path. If that lady had
    > >recevied 10 years, a lot more people would think twice about driving under the influence of
    > >drugs. And remember .. she chose to

    >
    > You don't think that losing 2 1/2 years of freedom isn't a big hunk out of someone's life? I tell
    > you, the prospect of even spending 12 months in jail acts as a pretty good incentive for me to
    > stay OUT of it.
    >
    > HEAR HEAR!!
    > ---
    > Cheers
    >
    > PeterC
    >
    > [Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
    > [and there's nothing you can do about it at all]
     
  19. Trevor S

    Trevor S Guest

    "Theo Bekkers" <[email protected]> wrote in news:FusVa.21688$OM3.6916 @news-server.bigpond.net.au:

    > "Trevor S" wrote
    >
    >> I disagree vehemently, the outcome is the important issue, not how
    > it was
    >> achieved.
    >
    > Suppose you were trimming your hedge and you carelessly let a branch fall on the footpath, someone
    > walking past just at that moment trips on it, does a spectacular cartwheel and lands flat on his
    > back unhurt. A passing bus driver witnesses this and his attention is distracted for a secvond,
    > bus runs into a tree and 20 people die.
    >
    > Do you expect to be hung for the outcome?

    Hung ? No, as I said , the outcome is important, I am agin' the death penalty, as it kills people.
    In the instance you explore, the bus drive killed 20 people through direct neglect, to me it is
    fairly black and white example.

    > Should the bus driver be hung for the outcome?

    No

    > Should the pedestrian be hung for the outcome because he wasn't looking where he was going?

    No.

    > Shall we hang them all?

    No

    > I suspect the driver will be punished for your carelessness and that you will receive no blame.

    because there is none to assign, unless you want to blame the drivers mother for giving birth, how
    far down the blame ladder do you want to step ?. Seems blatantly clear to me in your example the bus
    driver killed 20 people in your example, your mitigating circumstances amoutn to nothing more then a
    fart in the wind IMO. Would you like to see te Government blamed for not training the driver
    correctly, or the Police for not disqualify the driver, or the people that made the hedge cutter
    blamed for allowing me to use it ? Your philisophy is seriouly flawed precisly because of your blame
    transferal.

    >> As an aside, the US Government has a bill before congress where this
    > sort
    >> of Goal time would be given to people downloading MP3's, now lets
    > put
    >> THAT in perspective.
    >
    > Nobody does that unintentionally. It is a deliberate act of theft.

    Uh huh.... I think you missed my point, it is only theft because of the powerful IP lobby in the
    USA, there ability to incarcerate someone for downloading an MP3 was used as a direct example of
    proving the point that the law is an ass. In a world of swings and round-a-bouts putting somoen in
    Goal for downloading an MP3 seems to be to be a prime example of the world gone mad.

    --
    Trevor S

    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." -Albert Einstein
     
  20. Trevor S

    Trevor S Guest

    Peter Cremasco <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    <snip>

    > You don't think that losing 2 1/2 years of freedom isn't a big hunk out of someone's life?

    :) not as much as the dead cycilst

    --
    Trevor S

    "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." -Albert Einstein
     
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