Wondering about the Spongy Wonder

[Jeff Dixon]

Dear Sir,

I have replied to you before and it would be nice if you would be mature enough to respond to the points made rather than calling people names and hurling accusations. No one is impressed by this. But let me respond.

If you order a product that comes with instructions and you do not follow them most people would accept that some problems would probably occur.

If you order a highly engineered product that is a paradigm shift and do not call the manufacturer for help but rather take it to someone unfamiliar with it most peole would accept that some problems would probably occur.

If you order a product that is completely different than anything you have ever used and expect to be completely happy with it in two minutes most people would accept that that is unrealistic. I am not saying anything new, illogical or accusatory here. This is simple reality.

Blaming the product when you have "failed" to do what is necessary to use it successfully is not logical or just. I am not saying anything new, illogical or accusatory here. This is simple reality.

You have no reason to say, with anger and with no facts that "all you care about is whoring your product and being a respectable manufacturer is the last thing on your mind."

Our product has been through ten upgrades and we are now consulting with a carbon fiber manufacturer. I do not rely or depend or gauge the Spongy Wonder's quality by what others think. I gauge it by what it was, what it is now and what the possibilities are for making it better. You are not a manufacturer of metal components. You are not fit to judge a fabricated product made from metal. All those who are in that position and have worked with us or seen the product for some reason think it is outstanding. People like Bob Mohr, carpenter Technologies Chief metallurgist who rides one. Or Dr. Cliff Thornley, now retired, but at one time Canada's foremost expert on metal fatigue - who rides our product. Two of many examples.

I am not "whoring" my product by defending it against unjust comments. In Canada and the USA we accept that people have a right to defend themseleves, familiy, friends, their business etc.

Just so you know, we do not post testimonials that do not have many, many miles and much time behind them.

The only people we have found our product did not work for are folks who because of injury or diability could not ride it. They have hip or back problems that have kept them off the bike. They buy a seat because they want to return to cycling but their "issues" remain (we do not and cannot solve back or pelvic issues) and so they return with no issue with the seat.

The other category are people who

Have an axe to grind against anything not according to their paradigm, and/or do not read instructions, and/or think saving ten grams is more important that their urological health, and/or ask for a fit from someone who cannot fit them, and/or have totally unrealistic expectations, and/or have no patience (we say in the top paragraph of our instructions that riders may have sore "glutes" at first for a short time) and/or are unwilling to make a component alteration because they think that is more onerous than sitting across from their urologist and having him/her say "Your problem might be solvable by an operation but it is dangerous, uncertain of success and expensive.

Anyone who wants to stop damaging their helath and who has an open mind, is willing to read the instructions and is will - if necessary- to consider a component change (different stem is usually all that is required) can ride our product successfully.

Very few of them reject it as you do: with vile name calling and accusations when you have never even seen one let alone ridden one. Anyone reading these postings can see who is being logical, reasonable and hopeful helpful - and who is not.

Jeff Dixon

 

[alienator]

Dear Sir,
.......blah.....blah......blah......
Jeff Dixon

Oh, Jeffey-poo. Having a metallurgist or a an "expert" on metal fatigue get chuffed over your saddle is no more credible an endorsement than Phil, the guy that just pedaled his bike with your saddle around the block. Moreover, it doesn't take a metallurgist or an "expert" in metal fatigue to make a quality saddle. Those "titles" sound nice but mean nothing in a discussion of substance, something you don't offer.

Who cares that you're "now consulting with a carbon fiber manufacturer"? Is there some extra credibility to be found there? Who cares if your product has been through 10 upgrades? That says nothing about your product other than it's been through, uhm, 10 upgrades. It says nothing about the function of your product, the quality of your product, or what users think of your product.

Alas, you're internet interpretation of anger in what I wrote is a few parsecs off the mark. I'm not angry. I just think your response was ridiculous as your claims. I think you blaming people who didn't get your product to work lame and spineless.

This quote from you is hilarious:

The only people we have found our product did not work for are folks who because of injury or diability could not ride it. They have hip or back problems that have kept them off the bike. They buy a seat because they want to return to cycling but their "issues" remain (we do not and cannot solve back or pelvic issues) and so they return with no issue with the seat.

Golly, I guess that means you have developed the perfect product. Why, you ought to earn a prize......for self delusion or outright lying. Your claim defies all logic and only reinforces the idea that you blame the customer when your product doesn't work for them.

Jeffy-poo, you, with practice, could surely become one slick marketeer and have your name written in history's log of the greatest snake oil salesmen.

 

[Jeff Dixon]

Dear Sir,

I am really not sure what point you are trying to make. We have been in business 10 years. We have made numerous upgrades. We have consulted experts. We use a high end stainless" cold annealed 304 stainless and are always looking to improve if possible.

As I said before, anyone without a preventative injury can ride our seat successfully. And as I said before, this requires reading and following the instructions, sometimes a phone consultation, some patience (in some cases) and perhaps a small component change (in some cases). Let me remind you that the bicycle is in fact a product that anyone (having proper fitness and without some serious infliction) can use. The Pneumatic tire, the toaster, need I go on. I did not say it was perfect, I said anyone can use it successfully.

I addressed the posting of a gentlemen who did not follow the protocol necessary for a successful outcome. I suppose if you produced a product that was used without following the proper protocol you would then blame your product rather than saying "If he had called me I could have assisted him and the outcome would have been different." ?

You do not believe any of the testimonials, the fact we have been in business for ten years does not translate to you that some may find the product excellent, experts do not impress you, neither are you impressed by a return rate of 8%. And the fact you do not "engage" the points being made but use continual name-calling, accusations and abuse only ensure others that you are a person who is angry, illogical, immature and anything but a gentleman.

Jeff

 

[frenchyge]

 

Originally Posted by IsaacMike .

I tried Spongy Wonder. It was awful. I could not last more than 2 minutes on it. The feel was much too hard and rough. Despite spending considerable time with the adjustments, neither I nor the owner of our local bike shop could adjust it comfortablly. The customer service was extremely rude, when I tried to return it.
 

 

Originally Posted by Jeff Dixon .
So to say our product is awful when you have

a. No patience
b. Unrealistic expectations
c. Did not read the instructions.
d. Did not contact the company for help
e. Took a completely wrong approach to achieve fit.

is ridiculous.
See the five points above. It is completely unfair of this gentlemen to diminish our product, our company's success and and all the good we can do for riders when his actions have been so woefully lacking towards his own good.

Specifically, which of the 5 points listed do you see in the quoted post at the top which indicate this user's actions were woefully lacking? As an unbiased 3rd party, when I read it I see someone who 1) had *some* patience in working with the seat adjustments alone and with the help of his local wrench (maybe not as much as the manufacturer might prefer, but certainly more patience than a typical seat requires), 2) apparently expected a seat whose feel was less hard and rough, and who's customer service was less rude, 3) made no mention at all about instructions or their use or woeful lack thereof, 4) contacted the company after failing to achieve comfort on the seat alone and with local assistance, and 5) made no mention as to the approach he took to achieving fit or how woefully lacking it might have been.
 
Is your over-reaction based upon the return-call conversation that you had with the other poster, or about something he posted here? As one of the many potential customers viewing his post and your response on these forums, I have to agree with Alienator that it looks a lot like blaming the customer for things which weren't said or done in the conversation I'm privvy to here, as a way to discredit the statement of his dissatisfaction. Are your comments directed towards the specific poster here, or are they a general rant about the consumer reception of your product in general?
 
The person expected a more comfortable fit as compared to a traditional saddle, is that unrealistic? That sounds like your bread-and-butter customer niche to me and this is how you respond to his unsolicited review of his experience? What additional guidance or assistance did you provide during his call to address points d & e, once you determined that you had a frustrated customer on the phone?
 

 

[rparedes]

So guys... what's the big deal... some people like it; others don't. It's great that people try to create new products to meet some specific need. It's also great that customers like to try new things... it keeps the world going .... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

 

[neilcooper]

Originally Posted by IsaacMike .

I tried Spongy Wonder. It was awful. I could not last more than 2 minutes on it. The feel was much too hard and rough. Despite spending considerable time with the adjustments, neither I nor the owner of our local bike shop could adjust it comfortablly. The customer service was extremely rude, when I tried to return it.

I have since switched to the Hobson Easy Seat II. The quality and comfort is much better. However, neither of these solutions feel as stable as a one piece seat with a channel.

Perhaps it's just me but having read through this whole thread including all the the vitriol directed at Jeff D from 'alienator' (a more apt moniker would be impossible to invent I'm sure), I can't help but think that 'IsaacMike' with a total post count of 2, as well as signing up at the height of the debate, is nothing but a sockpuppet created by the aforementioned alienator. No offense intended, just calling it how I see it.

 

[Bruce L]

Well here is my two cents. I've been off the bike for over a year because of Pudendal neuralgia. Prior to this I was riding about 150-200 miles a week using several saddles including SMP, Specialied Toupe and Aliente. Recently I resumed riding about 50 miles a week thanks to the Spongy Wonder which has not exacerbated my problem. Here is my take on the saddle. It takes about a weeks riding to get use to and to adjust probably the saddle. It does put more weight on your hands and you'll probably have to change out your stem and ever seatpost since the rails are short and you may need more set back to get in the right position. Otherwise there is no major difference in the feel of the saddle. I was worried about descending and although I'm not the fastest on descents I had no problem going 40 mph while pressing the top tube with my knees. The saddle is heavy and not for everyone. I would recommend it to those who need to relieve perineal pressure ie. prostatitis, genital numbness etc. If you're not having a problem than I would stay with the conventional saddles.

 

[buddygirl]

More confused than ever now.

 

[swampy1970]

So what I'm hearing is that I could ride in my old time trial position...



... and my meat and two veg are gonna be feeling fine and dandy despite the nutcrushing position? What better impetous to push harder on the pedals in a time trial than the feeling that gangrene will set into the wedding tackle if you don't finish really quickly?

"The spongy wonder leaves your wonder feeling wonderously spongy and not numb."

"The spongy wonder - for those non-menly men who are fed up with using sanitary towels to wipe up their gential bleeding"

That angry Jeff dude should give me a job in his advertising department.

 

[Pedal]

I have prostate issues that have materialized more over the past several years. I used to ride quite a bit, 150-200 miles/week, but unfortunately, my riding has had to diminish as my conditions have worsened. My urologist thought it better for me to stay off the bike - he's a rider, too - but he did mention that an alternative saddle might just allow me to continue to ride. Mind you, I'm not a racer, but I am a dedicated rider and enjoy the sport for both pleasure and exercise.

I see a personal trainer once a week - he, too, has had serious prostate issues as well, and we have discussed our issues in great detail. My trainer, also a rider, suggested I try the Spongy Wonder, as it has allowed him to continue to ride without any flare ups, problems, pain or any other symptom. He apparently did quite a bit of research on his condition, cycling, and alternative saddles before purchasing the Spongy Wonder. He also told me he had discussed his condition with Mr. Dixon of Spongy Wonder Saddles, and told me that Mr. Dixon was very friendly, very helpful, and very accommodating.

I decided to research my condition, cycling, and alternative saddles as well, with a nod already given to the validity of the Spongy Wonder saddle. Having been a reader of the many cycling forums available on the internet, I came across this thread. I'm quite disturbed and hurt by the tone of this thread. The cyclists I know are some of the nicest people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, all with open minds and helpful advice to those who are new to the sport or who want to learn more from the "seasoned" cyclists in my area. This is quite different from the tone and demeanor of the ones who have all chosen to post here on this thread pertaining to the Spongy Wonder saddle. It saddens me to see that these elitists are so damning of a product that has solved a problem for many from the cycling community who thought they would have to retire from the sport that they love due to prostate issues (regardless of whether or not these problems were brought on by cycling in the first place). It has been incredibly disparaging for me to see that so many have taken such a negative tone with Mr. Dixon and his product.

Why the ridicule? Why the negativity? Why the hate? Mr. Dixon didn't start the thread, he simply responded with what I thought was a viable and concerted response to his product being trashed by posters who haven't even had the opportunity to try the saddle, or who obviously haven't had any prostate issues. Then the bashing begins. And continues. And goes on even more. This thread reads like a gang rape.

I have a problem, and I have every intention of trying a Spongy Wonder - because it has been recommended to me, and the science that I have seen on the internet backs up Mr. Dixon's statements. I think the problem with those who have bashed this saddle is that this saddle doesn't conform to what is of the norm among cyclists, particularly those elitist cyclists who race. Because, after all, it's all about looks and equipment, right?

Sorry, but I have an open mind and I want to ride my bike, and if this saddle allows me to do so in a fashion that doesn't exacerbate my condition, and allows me to ride comfortably, safely and with control, then I'm game. You ride what works for you. How can one argue with that?

 

[kdelong]

Originally Posted by rparedes .

So guys... what's the big deal... some people like it; others don't. It's great that people try to create new products to meet some specific need. It's also great that customers like to try new things... it keeps the world going .... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

Well, since you had to dig up this old thread, we pretty much came to a consensus of the thought that rparades stated in the quote. With Alienator as an exception, what most of the other cyclists objected to was the arrogant tone of Mr. Dixon's original post. Paraphrased, it sounded like he was saying "You don't know what you are talking about. I am the superior expert and I say if you know what is good for you, you will start riding using Spongy Wonder saddles". The biggest mistake that someone can make is to tell this group of cyclists that they are rank amateurs and that they must start using a certain brand of equipment or suffer dire consequences. Even though we are normally very friendly people, a poster is going to make a lot of enemies here if they submit a post that was as tactless as Mr. Dixon's first one. Yes, I can understand that he came here to stridently defend his product and that his subsequent posts(with the exceptions of his sparring matches with Alienator) were much more civil and less antagonistic, but by then the damage was done.

I am a little suspicious about your post. Have you been lurking around here, never posting until you found this thread and for some reason it inspired you to respond? Where were you when this discussion was fresh? You sure did compose a very long and detailed "first" post.......Pedal, aka Jeff.

 

[Pedal]

kdelong -

First, no, I'm not Jeff Dixon. I live in NC and Mr. Dixon lives in Canada, I believe. And as far as "digging up an old thread" is concerned, that what informational forums are for - digging up information. Sorry if that leads you into suspicion.

My first post on Cycling Forums was indeed the one you read (as I just registered), but I have been a reader of Cycling Forums for several years, in addition to RoadBikeRider.com, mtbr.com, roadbikereview.com, and many other bicycle forums and review sites across the web. I also subscribe to several bicycling ListServ groups as well, but all this is beside the point. I had been searching for some information and opinions on alternate saddles when I came across this thread.

I posted my feelings not so much about the saddle itself (as I have yet to try one), but rather the tone of the posters. From my point of view as a reader, the initial post was a posted as a question asking opinions. As the thread reads, it gets ugly, and quick. I don't blame Mr. Dixon one bit for his defensive initial post. I also didn't read it as condescending, but I can see how some would. I kept in mind the tone of the responses prior to Mr. Dixon's first post.

The negativity of this thread is rampant, and for the life of me, I don't know why. I agree with your reposting of rparedes words that you included above. But I disagree with the tone in which it is conveyed, and I am bothered that such negativity exists here in the first place. All across the internet I have searched for information on alternative type saddles, and here I find a most unpleasant attitude, unlike anywhere else. As I said in my initial post here, the tone is unpleasant and unbecoming of the cycling community I am most familiar with. That is my opinion, and I have the right to post that opinion here. I haven't called anybody names, I haven't pointed a finger at an individual, I haven't violated the rules of this forum, and I haven't done anything wrong. I'm just looking for answers to a question I have about my health and my riding, and obviously I've stepped into a hornet's nest. Please pardon the intrusion. Have a nice day.

 

[jhuskey]

Never really paid any attention to this thread. I thought is was maybe a discusion about erectile dysfunction.

 

[64Paramount]

Originally Posted by jhuskey .

Never really paid any attention to this thread. I thought is was maybe a discusion about erectile dysfunction.

No, that's the spoogy wonder... /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif

/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

 

[zkadesh]

While I am very late to this string, I read these and other comments about the Spongy Wonder before buying mine. I ride about 100 mi/week. My previous saddle was not comfortable. I tried different configurations, yet it did not work for me. I didn't have elevated PSA or other health issues.

After buying the SW It took me about a month and a couple of modifications to my bike set up to get the weight distribution away from my hands. Now I ride in comfort on the SW. I lost about 1 mph, but I'll make that trade for the comfort.