Wondering about the Spongy Wonder

[Jeff Dixon]

Jeff, disagree with your statement that all of us riding conventional saddles are at risk of doing serious damage to our health. To me, that single statement appears to be "fearmongering" to build a case for your product and is not conducive to promoting the sport of cycling in any way.

IMO, your statement is just as misleading as saying "all those who exercise at near maximum output capacity risk serious damage to their health (via heart attack)."

Suggest instead that you concentrate your marketing to those who need your special saddle for comfort and health rather than trying to scare the rest of the vast cycling population who have no need or interest. Based on your testimonials, there are plenty of persons who've experienced relief with your product after trying everything else.

Appreciate your comment but I am not fearmongering but stating that people are suffering neurological and urological damage from riding conventional saddles. This is well known so I don't think I am acting improperly by stating the facts.

A very high percentage of riders with whom I have spoken stated that they were about to give up on cycling if our bike seats didn't help. We are talking 1000s here. 1000s who were about to give up on cycling so in my opinion we are not acting in a way that, in your words is "...not conducive to promoting the sport of cycling...."

 

[dhk2]

Appreciate your comment but I am not fearmongering but stating that people are suffering neurological and urological damage from riding conventional saddles. This is well known so I don't think I am acting improperly by stating the facts.

A very high percentage of riders with whom I have spoken stated that they were about to give up on cycling if our bike seats didn't help. We are talking 1000s here. 1000s who were about to give up on cycling so in my opinion we are not acting in a way that, in your words is "...not conducive to promoting the sport of cycling...."

Yes, agree that some people who are riding conventional saddles are experiencing neurological and urological damage. But from that fact, it does not follow that all of us are at risk for some kind neurological or urological damage from conventional saddles
(and therefore should be using your product if we care about our health).

Further, as others have discussed, many of the people who have found relief with your product may have been riding ill-fitting saddles or bikes. LBS sellers may try to fit overweight and out-of-shape customers to racing bikes or pay no attention to fitting the proper saddle for the size and weight of the individual.

Since a very high percentage of the 1000s of riders you sell to are that subset who have problems already, my suggestion is just that you concentrate on selling them and give up on what I see as "fear marketing" to the rest of us. For the millions of us who've gotten used to a conventional saddle over many thousands of miles and appreciate the security of the saddle nose during heavy braking or bumpy cornering, a noseless saddle represents a compromise solution to a problem we don't have.

 

[Jeff Dixon]

Yes, agree that some people who are riding conventional saddles are experiencing neurological and urological damage. But from that fact, it does not follow that all of us are at risk for some kind neurological or urological damage from conventional saddles
(and therefore should be using your product if we care about our health).

Further, as others have discussed, many of the people who have found relief with your product may have been riding ill-fitting saddles or bikes. LBS sellers may try to fit overweight and out-of-shape customers to racing bikes or pay no attention to fitting the proper saddle for the size and weight of the individual.

Since a very high percentage of the 1000s of riders you sell to are that subset who have problems already, my suggestion is just that you concentrate on selling them and give up on what I see as "fear marketing" to the rest of us. For the millions of us who've gotten used to a conventional saddle over many thousands of miles and appreciate the security of the saddle nose during heavy braking or bumpy cornering, a noseless saddle represents a compromise solution to a problem we don't have.

I feel compelled once again to dispel this myth that everyone who rides our product belongs in some sort of "lesser quality cyclist category." We have scores of riders who were fit properly to their bikes, are not overweight, who have many years and miles of experience and are very knowledgeable.

There is a sort of implication here that only "lower life-forms of cyclists" ride our seat and that the other category does not because of esoteric factors. This is wrong. It is also wrong for riders to take the attitude that "I have been riding for years without issues therefore this issue of seats causing damage is a myth." I rode for 15 years myself before my symptoms showed up.

Here is an analogy: No one discovers they have cancer on the day they smoke. They smoke for years - do not see a problem and may in fact not develop a serious respitory ailment. Yet would we deny that smoking can give you cancer? - I don't think so. To say that you have no problems now - and therefore never will is, in terms of logc, "begging the question." I have never said that all riders will develop damage. What I have said is that there is more than sufficient proof establishing that if you ride a conventional bike seat you are certainly running those risks.

In addition, none you really don't know what kind of carnage is out there do we? I am reasonably sure that most riders do not go around informing everyone they see that they have been unable to "get it up for days" or something of the like. You say there are millions who ride and have seen no symptoms. I agree. For many of them this is a case of no symptoms yet - just like it was for me.

I also must say, once again, that it is unfortunate that I am being accused of fear tactics. I started this company because of my experience. That experience is confirmed by riders every week and these riders fall into every category out there. My responses on this forum was not due to marketing, it was due to the extremely belligerent and vicious comments that anyone would defend themselves against unless they simply didn't care.

May I ask if Specialized, Koobi, Selle Italia, Serfas, Terry etc. are also delusional fearmongerers?

Because of my own experince, the experience of many, many riders (in every category), the long list of studies, and because of basic straight forward logic that tells you humans are not designed to sit in the fashion conventional seats provide, I do believe that conventional seats can and do damage the health of cyclists. I do believe that many riders will somehow escape. I do believe that many are in denial. I do believe that many already have problems but refuse to change for the same reasons many athletes take perfoming inhancing drugs: they believe the benefits outweigh the losses. I do believe that many have not yet realised taht slowly and silently they are damaging themselves and that that fact will eventually show itself.


The weight of proof for all of my beliefs has long since been established.

 

[artemidorus]

May I ask if Specialized, Koobi, Selle Italia, Serfas, Terry etc. are also delusional fearmongerers?

Jeff, is it simple oversight that you never mention the company that seems to have gone to the greatest lengths to make a seat that will protect the perineum and appeal aesthetically to cyclists, Selle SMP? That company is the elephant in the room of this thread.

 

[Jeff Dixon]

Jeff, is it simple oversight that you never mention the company that seems to have gone to the greatest lengths to make a seat that will protect the perineum and appeal aesthetically to cyclists, Selle SMP? That company is the elephant in the room of this thread.

I have to admit I wasn't aware of it. But I would like to remind you that form needs to follow function. Sure it looks sexy but so what? Here is what Dr. Steven Schrader at the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health discovered about these "modified conventional saddles":

Today's ergonomic bicycle seats with splits in the back or holes in the
center to relieve pressure on the perineum may make matters worse because
bicycle seats bicycle seats have smaller surface areas, so the rider's
weight presses harder on less seat. The perineum may not escape injury
because its arteries run laterally and they are not directly over the
cutouts and can come under more pressure when they come into contact with
the cutouts' edges.

 

[dhk2]

IMO, this site presents a good overview of the saddle issues, evolution and fit. Note the links to "alternative" seats as well as the "sizing chart" application info at the bottom.

http://www.jimlangley.net/crank/bicycleseats

 

[artemidorus]

Here is what Dr. Steven Schrader at the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health discovered about these "modified conventional saddles":

Today's ergonomic bicycle seats with splits in the back or holes in the center to relieve pressure on the perineum may make matters worse because bicycle seats bicycle seats have smaller surface areas, so the rider's weight presses harder on less seat. The perineum may not escape injury because its arteries run laterally and they are not directly over the cutouts and can come under more pressure when they come into contact with the cutouts' edges.

No offence intended, Jeff, but that quotation does not suggest that he has discovered anything, he is just expressing an opinion. At least in that excerpt, no research is cited.

It is laudable that your company has participated in research, and obviously, being a private company, you are not obliged to do any research at all beyond establishing a reasonable level of safety of your product, but if you are to make general comments about saddle noses being bad, then you have to justify that with research showing that even the radically cut-out but otherwise traditional saddles such as the SMP are as bad as the rest. Similarly, if SMP wishes to say that they are better than the rest, then they need to prove that, something that they appear not to have done. I was hoping that you might have been involved in some head to head studies.

In any case, a saddle nose is essential to my style of cycling, particularly off-road, and I think that this would also be the case for many of the other posters on this thread. The SMP is one I have been thinking of trying, with price being the main barrier.

 

[Jeff Dixon]

IMO, this site presents a good overview of the saddle issues, evolution and fit. Note the links to "alternative" seats as well as the "sizing chart" application info at the bottom.

http://www.jimlangley.net/crank/bicycleseats

Thanks,

 

[Peter@vecchios]

I have to admit I wasn't aware of it. But I would like to remind you that form needs to follow function. Sure it looks sexy but so what? Here is what Dr. Steven Schrader at the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health discovered about these "modified conventional saddles":

Today's ergonomic bicycle seats with splits in the back or holes in the
center to relieve pressure on the perineum may make matters worse because
bicycle seats bicycle seats have smaller surface areas, so the rider's
weight presses harder on less seat. The perineum may not escape injury
because its arteries run laterally and they are not directly over the
cutouts and can come under more pressure when they come into contact with
the cutouts' edges.

We have sold many of these. They have probably the best test ride program in the industry. Of all who have borrowed the test ride saddle, only one didn't buy. All others who tried it found relief of their problem. No need to slam a competitor.

I think some object to your tone, as an example,

"For many of them this is a case of no symptoms yet - just like it was for me.", implying just wait, you will have symptoms. and

"I do believe that conventional seats can and do damage the health of cyclists."

And to compare using a conventional saddle to taking performance enhancing drugs is poppycock. Performance enhancing drugs are illegal.

Good luck on your product but to imply that cyclists are a bunch of idiots in pain and would rather 'die than look bad' doesn't give cyclists much credit.

 

[swampy1970]

J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2005 Sep;45(3):409-18:
Effect of bike seat design on transcutaneous penile oxygen pressure.
Cohen JD, Gross MT.

Program in Human Movement Science, Department of Allied Health Sciences,
School of Medicine, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, NC.

AIM: To determine the reliability of monitoring penile transcutaneous oxygen
(tpO2) during cycling, and to assess the influence of Bike Seat design and
cycling position on tpO2.

METHODS: Experimental design: repeated measures analysis of the effects of
bicycle seat design and riding position on tpO2 values. Participants: 31
male cyclists between the ages of 20 and 50 years. Subject inclusion
criteria: averaged approx. 80 miles of road bicycling per week during the 2
months prior to enrollment; no history of vascular disease, diabetes, or
sexual dysfunction; and had an erection within 15 days prior to study.

MEASURES: mean tpO2 values were calculated for seated and standing positions using 3 current bike seat designs.

RESULTS: Seat design had no significant effect on tpO2 values. Seated
cycling significantly reduced tpO2 levels compared with standing cycling.
Mean percent decreases in tpO2 from standing to seated cycling were; Vetta 76%, Terry 73%, and Specialized 62%.

CONCLUSION: None of the bike seats exhibited any significant ability to
spare penile tpO2.


Thanks for all your questions.

Jeff

I'm sorry, I just have to poke a little fun at this as I'm having a hard time believing this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but did a group of cyclists fasten an O2 sensor to their pecker and ride a bike in the name of science?

Since you listed elevated PSA readings and peeing blood in your earlier posts, one has to wonder how you'd go about verifying on-the-bike effects on the prostate gland! NURSE!!!! Would the riders have to wear specially modified ASSos shorts?

 

[Jeff Dixon]

We have sold many of these. They have probably the best test ride program in the industry. Of all who have borrowed the test ride saddle, only one didn't buy. All others who tried it found relief of their problem. No need to slam a competitor.

I think some object to your tone, as an example,

"For many of them this is a case of no symptoms yet - just like it was for me.", implying just wait, you will have symptoms. and

"I do believe that conventional seats can and do damage the health of cyclists."

And to compare using a conventional saddle to taking performance enhancing drugs is poppycock. Performance enhancing drugs are illegal.

Good luck on your product but to imply that cyclists are a bunch of idiots in pain and would rather 'die than look bad' doesn't give cyclists much credit.

The statement: "For many of them this is a case of no symptoms yet - just like it was for me." is true. I hear it every week. Riders call here and say "I didn't have any problems for years but now I do" and a host of others make other very similar statements.

As far as your statement that: "And to compare using a conventional saddle to taking performance enhancing drugs is poppycock. Performance enhancing drugs are illegal." my response is that the point I am trying to make in using that analogy is that riders, like other athletes, will knowingly, in different ways, such as for example: taking performance enhancing drugs, sacrifice their bodies for what they believe is a performance advantage. I hear this every week. Riders call and say they are having numbing, tingling, erection issues, high PSAs etc which they state are due to their seat. But when I tell them we can address these issues as long as they understand that the weight of the seat is so and so, or that they may need to make an adjustment in riding style or "cockpit setup" many of them "go away." These are riders who do have problems but who do not address them because they believe that in addressing them they will lose a performance edge. This action is in "essence" inthe same "category" as taking performance enhancing drugs because both are instances of a person knowingly and willing continuing to hurt their body for what they believe to be a performance advantage.

I am a cyclist and I do not believe cyclists are idiots and I have never said that. But to say that all cyclists act rationally or logically when it comes to this issue or that they always put their health first over an edge in performance is simply not true. Everyone else can determine what category you want to put that disposition into. For me that disposition is definitely in the "unfortunate and unnecessary" category.

Thanks Again,

Jeff

 

[Jeff Dixon]

I'm sorry, I just have to poke a little fun at this as I'm having a hard time believing this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but did a group of cyclists fasten an O2 sensor to their pecker and ride a bike in the name of science?

Since you listed elevated PSA readings and peeing blood in your earlier posts, one has to wonder how you'd go about verifying on-the-bike effects on the prostate gland! NURSE!!!! Would the riders have to wear specially modified ASSos shorts?

Hi there! Love your "bolding." "Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more, say no more!" An interesting question for certain. We here at Spongy Wonder Bicycle Seats believe that the good folks at the Program in Human Movement Science, Department of Allied Health Sciences, School of Medicine, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, NC. probably have some idea about how to conduct a valid test. Perhaps they don't but you would also think that The J Sports Med Phys Fitness probably also has some knowledge in discerning between a good study and a poor one.

As far as the PSA statement goes, I have no idea how many (it is a lot) riders have called me, after buying the Spongy Wonder Bike Seat, to tell me that they had high PSAs, and had bought the Spongy Wonder Bike Seat either with or without their urologists recommendation. Those who bought my seat without the knowledge and recommendation of their urologists then went on to tell me that when they went back in for return tests their doctors were amazed that their PSAs had dropped so far so fast. "What have you done? There is no way your PSA could have dropped like this even if you did everything I told you." was the usual comment from the doctors as reported to us. These riders told me that when they told their doctors about my seat most were very surprised and pleased. Those who bought my seat with their doctors recommendation also told me that their doctors were very surprised, not at the drop in their patients' PSA but the extent and speed of the drop. Many of these riders told me that the only thing they did was change their seat.

I have sold dozens of seats to urologists and have had many phone orders and e-orders which involved the riders telling me that their doctors recommended the Spongy Wonder.

As far as peeing blood goes, tingling nerves and numb "privates", etc., etc. all I can tell you is that I have more reports of cycists who credit our seat with ending their problems than I have time to count. I am talking about 1000s and 1000s.

I have also had a number of cyclists tell me that their doctors blamed their failure to impregnate their female significant others (it probably shouldn't be necessary to point out that the significant others were female but given some of the comments over the history of this thread I can only guess at the comments if I don't spell this out) on their low sperm count as caused by their riding, and suggested they stop. These riders reported that after changing to the Spongy Wonder Bike Seats (we have 4 models) their count went way up and some called back yet again (I can't remember how many off the top of my head.) to report success in impregnating their partners. A very happy bunch!

Just telling you what has happened - that's all. Here are some testimonials for my site at

http://www.spongywonder.com :

Seeing injuries from bicycle seats fairly often in my internal medicine practice, I was happy to discover the Spongy Wonder Bicycle Seat. I immediately bought one for my own bicycle, and was quite gratified to see how comfortable it was, while still able to maintain good control of my bike. I¹ve had mine for a year now, and have yet to put on the replacement pads! If you're a rider, old or young, male or female, you need one of these bicycle seats.

Dr. Philip Alexander, MD
College Station TX


The Spongy Wonder Bicycle Seat is great and the best of the noseless, perineal sparing Bicycle seats that I've tried. I'm going to the site to order another one for my other upright bike.

Seth Manoach MD
Assistant Professor of Emergency Medicine Chair
CPR Committee/Rapid Response Program
Brooklyn, NY


I could not be riding if it were not for the Spongy Wonder Bike Seat!

About three and a half years ago I was diagnosed with Pudendal Neuralgia or Pudendal Nerve Entrapment (PNE). Doctors surmise the condition was caused by spending a lot of time on a conventional bike seat. I had been riding/racing bikes for about 15 years. PNE is also referred to as "cyclist's syndrome". The last couple of years I was using a "cut out bicycle seat". This cut out seat actually made my condition worse.

I received three sessions of cortisone shots and a year and a half of internal/external physical therapy. I took two years off from cycling and have recently returned thanks to the Spongy Wonder Bike Seat. I have tried countless bicycle seats in the past and none of them allowed me to ride without pain. My riding is going so well now that I have returned to racing.

Thank you Spongy Wonder!

J. Roach
Santa Rosa Ca.


Folks,

After about 55 years of being an avid bike rider, I contracted prostatitis and was no longer able to ride. After three years of not being able to pursue my favorite form of exercise, I tried your bicycle seat. I'm back in the "saddle" again. I passed your bicycle seat info on to my urologist and she promises to spread the word. Keep up the good.

Thanks again.

D. Iannucci
Utah


After riding for almost 20 years I am surprised that the damage inflicted upon the male body is kept secret. I stopped riding for 2 years after a visit to my urologist. After I showed him your bicycle seat he told me to try it and since then I am as good a rider as before.

My friends laughed at me at first. But as they started having problems they slowly reached out to me and asked where they could buy one of your bike
seats.

Roberto C.
Mexico


Jeffrey,

Your bicycle seat gave me the bike back again! Three years ago I was riding
about 100 mile/week on my road bike: commuting and recreational. A 50K ride with my hard, thin horned bike seat brought on persistent pain in the genitals which worsened over several months. I saw physicians, GPs, urologists, sports medicine specialists, neurologists, etc. and received a variety of diagnoses. At its worst, I was unable to sit in a chair for more than a few minutes without pain.

I had pudendal nerve entrapment and went to Nantes, France and had
decompression neurosurgery with Prof. Roger Robert who specializes in
treating PNE.

Without the Spongy Wonder Bicycle Seat I WOULD NOT be cycling again - there is no way I could sit on a normal bicycle seat, even seats with a definite
split. If I had always ridden with a Spongy Wonder I would not have
developed PNE. The standard bicycle seat is NOT a healthy thing.

When male cyclists experience numbness with a standard bicycle seat they just shake it off. When you experience that numbness you ARE damaging the
pudendal nerve and trust me, you DO NOT want to damage.

Jeffrey, thank you! If any of your other customers want more details on PNE,
please have them contact me - you have my permission to supply my email
address if requested.


Tony K.
Toronto



Just wanted to drop you a line an let you know how I am making out on the Spongy Wonder Bicycle seat. My initial ride was 25km with some adjustments.
I found the magic location and pulled of a 36km trip involving 1/3 climbing. No numbness or pain in the crotch area. My prostate thanks you. I will be sending a picture of this to my family doctor and Urologist. Unbelievable. What a great product. It looks rather Hi-tech and very cool as well.

Bob B.



As far as bike shorts go, the fact that they are padded tells you something about the functionality of horned seats. And of course, as I mentioned earlier, you have two choices with regards to the companies who produce "modified conventional bike saddles": Specialized, Terry, Selle Italia, Koobi, etc., etc:

1. They are dishonest fearmongering greedy capitalists who have invented and are pushing a false notion about bike seats so as to grab your cash. Or

2. Their production of "modified conventional bike saddles" is an acknowledgement that bicycle seats create unhealthy pressure on vital urological and urological vessels.

I really appreciate your comments.

Jeff

 

[dhk2]

Thanks,

Jeff, you said thanks, but my guess is you don't like Jim Langley's webpage much at all. First, it makes a case for the conventional saddle nose (not a "horn") being useful for keeping us on the bike during braking and cornering (we do a lot of that on steep descends here). Second, it lists your saddle, along with your competitors, as an "alternative" for those with special problems. This is exactly how I see your saddle. No doubt there are 1000s of these riders who have found relief with your product, and for them it's wonderful. Seems to me those happy customers and testimonials would be all you need to continue to grow the business.

But like Peter, I object to your tactics to sell the rest of us something we don't need or want. I'm sure you've convinced yourself that you're on a crusade to save the health of cyclists, but to me (and I suspect many others) it just appears that you're trying to use fear tactics to further your own interests. It's your business, and you're free to promote it the best way you see fit so I won't press the point any further.

 

[Jeff Dixon]

Jeff, you said thanks, but my guess is you don't like Jim Langley's webpage much at all. First, it makes a case for the conventional saddle nose (not a "horn") being useful for keeping us on the bike during braking and cornering (we do a lot of that on steep descends here). Second, it lists your saddle, along with your competitors, as an "alternative" for those with special problems. This is exactly how I see your saddle. No doubt there are 1000s of these riders who have found relief with your product, and for them it's wonderful. Seems to me those happy customers and testimonials would be all you need to continue to grow the business.

But like Peter, I object to your tactics to sell the rest of us something we don't need or want. I'm sure you've convinced yourself that you're on a crusade to save the health of cyclists, but to me (and I suspect many others) it just appears that you're trying to use fear tactics to further your own interests. It's your business, and you're free to promote it the best way you see fit so I won't press the point any further.

I am happy to say "thanks" to anyone who makes a reasonable, polite and mannerly comment on these forums. Debating a point can be a useful, positive exercise between parties that disagree.

As far as growing the business, we are an internet company and so must address different aspects of doing business on the internet. When you get online and discover incredibly nasty, biased, unobjective slander against your product it becomes necessary to defend yourself or coversely let those falsehoods and poison take their negative effects. I am not doing anything unusual, immoral or unbusinesslike in that regard.

Your statement that "...your tactics to sell the rest of us something we don't need or want...." is false because we have sold over 18,000 seats and to every category out there. The category of hard core roadies has grown faster than any other category of sales, and your comment that dual platforms seats are something you "we don't need" is a case of circular reasoning (It is a statement given as fact which is not proven), and does not line up with the facts as I have demonstrated before by quoting studies, individual testimonies, my own experience, basic logic, and the fact of the production of modified conventional saddles by respected manufacturers. Also, I don't think you can reasonable claim to speak for everyone in the category you are contemplating that comprises the "we."

As far as the "fear issue" goes, I am simply stating history, facts and quotes, etc. Are doctors not supposed to tell patients to quit smoking because their patients might be afraid? Are news reports not supposed to report large fires in particular areas and warn people to stay away because people might be afraid? Are parents not to warn they children about putting their hands on a hot oven burner because they might be afraid? Going with your position on this we would have to accept that all warnings about overeating, lack of exercise, smoking, etc., etc. should not have been made. Warning people of danger is nothing new and it is not an immoral or negative activity. Warning people to avoid things that will hurt them is a positive activity because it keeps them safe.


Thanks Again,

Jeff

 

[Peter@vecchios]

I am happy to say "thanks" to anyone who makes a reasonable, polite and mannerly comment on these forums. Debating a point can be a useful, positive exercise between parties that disagree.

As far as growing the business, we are an internet company and so must address different aspects of doing business on the internet. When you get online and discover incredibly nasty, biased, unobjective slander against your product it becomes necessary to defend yourself or coversely let those falsehoods and poison take their negative effects. I am not doing anything unusual, immoral or unbusinesslike in that regard.

Your statement that "...your tactics to sell the rest of us something we don't need or want...." is false because we have sold over 18,000 seats and to every category out there. The category of hard core roadies has grown faster than any other category of sales, and your comment that dual platforms seats are something you "we don't need" is a case of circular reasoning (It is a statement given as fact which is not proven), and does not line up with the facts as I have demonstrated before by quoting studies, individual testimonies, my own experience, basic logic, and the fact of the production of modified conventional saddles by respected manufacturers. Also, I don't think you can reasonable claim to speak for everyone in the category you are contemplating that comprises the "we."

As far as the "fear issue" goes, I am simply stating history, facts and quotes, etc. Are doctors not supposed to tell patients to quit smoking because their patients might be afraid? Are news reports not supposed to report large fires in particular areas and warn people to stay away because people might be afraid? Are parents not to warn they children about putting their hands on a hot oven burner because they might be afraid? Going with your position on this we would have to accept that all warnings about overeating, lack of exercise, smoking, etc., etc. should not have been made. Warning people of danger is nothing new and it is not an immoral or negative activity. Warning people to avoid things that will hurt them is a positive activity because it keeps them safe.


Thanks Again,

Jeff

My last post on this subject.
"Warning people to avoid things that will hurt them is a positive activity because it keeps them safe.".....

"Warning people to avoid things that may hurt them is a positive activity because it may keep them safe"

I'm out.

 

[Felt_Rider]

I am not posting to discredit what or who the seat is marketed to, but I am having a hard time imagining using a seat like that on most of the courses I ride that involve speeds up into the 50's at moments and approaching turns in hard switchbacks at high speeds.

As my mind goes through the visualization of someone using a seat like that the image is only catastrophic in nature. Maybe that is not how it would play out in real life, but from what I know in cycling such courses that is all mind can visualize.

 

[Jeff Dixon]

My last post on this subject.
"Warning people to avoid things that will hurt them is a positive activity because it keeps them safe.".....

"Warning people to avoid things that may hurt them is a positive activity because it may keep them safe"

I'm out.

Thanks again for all your contributions.

Jeff

 

[IsaacMike]

I tried Spongy Wonder. It was awful. I could not last more than 2 minutes on it. The feel was much too hard and rough. Despite spending considerable time with the adjustments, neither I nor the owner of our local bike shop could adjust it comfortablly. The customer service was extremely rude, when I tried to return it.

I have since switched to the Hobson Easy Seat II. The quality and comfort is much better. However, neither of these solutions feel as stable as a one piece seat with a channel.

 

[Jeff Dixon]

I tried Spongy Wonder. It was awful. I could not last more than 2 minutes on it. The feel was much too hard and rough. Despite spending considerable time with the adjustments, neither I nor the owner of our local bike shop could adjust it comfortablly. The customer service was extremely rude, when I tried to return it.

I have since switched to the Hobson Easy Seat II. The quality and comfort is much better. However, neither of these solutions feel as stable as a one piece seat with a channel.

It is difficult as a manufacturer to assist people like the gentleman above. We have all heard the expression "I started a new exercise program and discovered muscles I did not know I had." When you ride a dual platform seat you are asking your bum muscles to work under pressure. As this is new to them they can be sore at first. Secondly, this is a complete paradigm shift. Bike shop owners with no experience with dual platform seats cannot help with fit because they are like "Dog experts trying to discuss cats." They have no point of reference. So to say our product is awful when you have

a. No patience
b. Unrealistic expectations
c. Did not read the instructions.
d. Did not contact the company for help
e. Took a completely wrong approach to achieve fit.

is ridiculous. Have I, despite best intentions, gotten testy when riders like this call me up on my nickel and my time to enquire about a return after they have done what is outlined above and thus "submarined" a successful paradigm shift. Yup I have.

We have a return rate of 8%. 90% of teh seats that come back are barely used. Why? See the five points above. It is completely unfair of this gentlemen to diminish our product, our company's success and and all the good we can do for riders when his actions have been so woefully lacking towards his own good.

Furthermore, the quality of our product is tremendous. as many of our testimonials state. We have asked for quotes from many different manufacturers and when they saw the stainless components their reactions were either "We cannot match this for quality and/or price." As well, it is ridiculous to say that one is not stable on the bike when that same person has admitted they barely rode it.

Jeff Dixon

 

[alienator]

It is difficult as a manufacturer to assist people like the gentleman above. We have all heard the expression "I started a new exercise program and discovered muscles I did not know I had." When you ride a dual platform seat you are asking your bum muscles to work under pressure. As this is new to them they can be sore at first. Secondly, this is a complete paradigm shift. Bike shop owners with no experience with dual platform seats cannot help with fit because they are like "Dog experts trying to discuss cats." They have no point of reference. So to say our product is awful when you have

a. No patience
b. Unrealistic expectations
c. Did not read the instructions.
d. Did not contact the company for help
e. Took a completely wrong approach to achieve fit.

is ridiculous. Have I, despite best intentions, gotten testy when riders like this call me up on my nickel and my time to enquire about a return after they have done what is outlined above and thus "submarined" a successful paradigm shift. Yup I have.

We have a return rate of 8%. 90% of teh seats that come back are barely used. Why? See the five points above. It is completely unfair of this gentlemen to diminish our product, our company's success and and all the good we can do for riders when his actions have been so woefully lacking towards his own good.

Furthermore, the quality of our product is tremendous. as many of our testimonials state. We have asked for quotes from many different manufacturers and when they saw the stainless components their reactions were either "We cannot match this for quality and/or price." As well, it is ridiculous to say that one is not stable on the bike when that same person has admitted they barely rode it.

Jeff Dixon

It's awesome how, in your post, you lay all the blame for issues with your "saddle" at the feet of the riders. Wow. It must really be keen to hold such god-like status such that you can make such declarations. Of course, you didn't stop for an instant to think that your dissatisfied customers had valid claims. See that's something you can't do iffin' all you care about is whoring your product and being a respectable manufacturer is the last thing on your mind.

Testimonials are worth the ink or pixels with which they're written. There are boat loads of testimonials written about products after a single use. Your customers are no different, so don't think that testimonials are some objective measure of product quality.

Of course, as a "saddle" manufacturer, a person would think you would understand that your product won't work for everyone. I mean, after all, only an idiot would think otherwise and be so anxious to blame customers, right, Jeffey-boy?

Remember, Jeffey-boy, your statement,

As well, it is ridiculous to say that one is not stable on the bike when that same person has admitted they barely rode it.

applies equally well to your shills and positive testimonials.

Golly, Jeffy-boy, doesn't it suck when your marketing swill doesn't work on everyone and people see you for what you really are: a huckster?

Sweet dreams, babycakes.