Wool verses Gortex



jawnn

New Member
Nov 17, 2003
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Wool verses Gortex

I use a light nylon wind jacket that breathes, but not enough for heavy cycling. I need a waterproof jacket, but I hear Gortex just in not as breathable as they say, not surprising.

Is there any one that uses a thin wool jacket for wind and rain???

My bicycle guru says to use silk then wool then Gortex with out a liner.
 
Your Bicycle Guru knows what he is talking about. Silk, or Nylon, which is breathable and will let perspiration through, then wool which will provide a warm layer and will wick and store perspiration away from your body, and then Gortex to provide a windproof and waterproof outer layer. This combination should keep you warm and dry.
 
jawnn said:
Wool verses Gortex

I use a light nylon wind jacket that breathes, but not enough for heavy cycling. I need a waterproof jacket, but I hear Gortex just in not as breathable as they say, not surprising.

Is there any one that uses a thin wool jacket for wind and rain???

My bicycle guru says to use silk then wool then Gortex with out a liner.

Look at

http://www.rainshield.com/p_cycling.html

Like Gortex at about 20% the cost.
 
It would be interesting to know if anyone has successfully been able to ride hard wearing gortex without getting drowned in their own sweat? The best I can get it is to have the sweat being trapped between the gortex and a top layer both of which are usually totally soaked. I stay warm as long as I don't stop or get a puncture. In summer it's not so bad and just ride through the rain, it's too cold to be pelted by rain at this time of year though! Is there a solution to staying waterproof on both sides when putting in a hard effort?
 
rowskein said:
It would be interesting to know if anyone has successfully been able to ride hard wearing gortex without getting drowned in their own sweat? The best I can get it is to have the sweat being trapped between the gortex and a top layer both of which are usually totally soaked. I stay warm as long as I don't stop or get a puncture. In summer it's not so bad and just ride through the rain, it's too cold to be pelted by rain at this time of year though! Is there a solution to staying waterproof on both sides when putting in a hard effort?
You don't wear Gortex to stay dry, you wear it to stay warm. If you're sweaty, take the Gortex off or at least unzip it.
 
artemidorus said:
You don't wear Gortex to stay dry, you wear it to stay warm. If you're sweaty, take the Gortex off or at least unzip it.

HA! When was the last time you had to spend the night, at altitude, in winter, in a snow cave you just dug?

Ice climbing in spring is all about staying dry, what with the frigid water from melting ice trying to find its way inside your garments.

Goretex (and any membrane/coating on WP/B clothes, as well) doesn't do well in two specific conditions:
  1. When it's warm. A significant temperature differential across the membrane, i.e. warm on the inside, cold on the outside, drives the water vapor out of the shell.
  2. When it's humid. Gases....er, vapors....don't diffuse well (actually, it's really about equilibria, but will skip that description in favor of one that's overly simple and slightly incorrect.) when the pressure of that gas is the same where it's at as where you want it to go.
 
alienator said:
HA! When was the last time you had to spend the night, at altitude, in winter, in a snow cave you just dug?
I don't disagree, but I was talking about cycling. The only time I will wear a barrier membrane when cycling is when I could not otherwise stay warm with lightweight, low-profile gear and I will expect a bit of sweatiness except in very cold conditions. I won't wear gortex just to stay dry, as, in my experience, you can't stay dry wearing it unless it is very cold and the wearer is not exercising very heavily.
I bushwalk and XC ski, and goretex has an additional role for those activities, which is, as you suggest, keeping the wearer warm and dry while at rest, especially overnight. During the day, while walking or skiing, then its role is simply to keep you warm.
 
artemidorus said:
You don't wear Gortex to stay dry, you wear it to stay warm. If you're sweaty, take the Gortex off or at least unzip it.
Thanks, that's pretty much what i end up doing but if you're out for 4-5 hour ride that doesn't really work too well when it's pelting it down in 2-10 degrees. Just wondering if there's a good solution? I use Gortex for hill walking and it works great but i'm not putting in the same effort! Interestingly enough my lbs shops sell it here as a breathable waterproof layer. Are they miss selling it or over stating it's breathing capabilities?
 
rowskein said:
Thanks, that's pretty much what i end up doing but if you're out for 4-5 hour ride that doesn't really work too well when it's pelting it down in 2-10 degrees. Just wondering if there's a good solution? I use Gortex for hill walking and it works great but i'm not putting in the same effort! Interestingly enough my lbs shops sell it here as a breathable waterproof layer. Are they miss selling it or over stating it's breathing capabilities?
It does breathe, just not enough for heavy exertion. I find that you can unzip it just enough for temperature control, and if some chilly rain gets in and makes you too cold then zip it back up a little.
 
jawnn said:
is ther any material that wicks as well as wool???? or even close??

Yes. For cold environments with a lot of activity, wool can actually freeze, because it doesn't dissipate water but rather stores it inside the yarn. A synthetic, hydrophobic inner or midlayer coupled with a soft shell outer works muy well.
 
alienator said:
Yes. For cold environments with a lot of activity, wool can actually freeze, because it doesn't dissipate water but rather stores it inside the yarn. A synthetic, hydrophobic inner or midlayer coupled with a soft shell outer works muy well.
This has been my experience too. I feel that, with a couple of exceptions, modern synthetics are better for my outdoor activities (boating, hunting, xc skiing, hiking, backpacking, fishing) than wool. They generally are more hydrophobic/wicking and lighter weight. Yes, wool retains insulating capability when wet, but, in my experience, retains more water than synthetics, and is gemerally heavier when dry and much heavier when wet. Also, with some exceptions, isn't nearly as comfortable as synthetics.

Decent quality and adequately designed base, mid and outer layers for most recreational activies can be found very cheap. Upscale, name brands can be expensive, but the functionality improvement is often (not always) marginal at best for any activitiy less severe than full-on mountaineering. Wool garments that are of adequate quality and design for my purposes are generally very expensive, and I imagine that wool garments adequately designed for severe use are even more expensive.

I do like wool socks.
 
Two or three thin, tightly machine woven wool tops are great as budget warmth, and are less bulky when packed than a single woolen jumper providing similar insulation. Not so relevant now that synthetic fleece garments are so cheap, but the three thin woollen tops probably pack better than the fleece, too.
 
mountain hardwear Argon Jacket was recomended even if it is several times the price of O2..

I need a comparison chart of the beathablity of the different rain jackets, and one for the wickablity of different kinds of wool substatutes....has any one tryed it????
 
jawnn said:
is ther any material that wicks as well as wool???? or even close??
FWIW. Basically, as Alienator (!) noted, for moisture to move between the inner boundary of a GoreTex garment/shell/tent and the outer boundary, the humidity has to be lower outside the "garment" ... that's usually not happening when it is actually raining. The inability of a GoreTex laminated fabric to breath when compared with a tightly woven fabric is ONE reason that zippers were introduced to the underams of backpacking/climbing shells.

About 30 years ago, (roughly) concurrent with the introduction of GoreTex lined "shells" for backpacking & climbing, it was recommended that the individual wear a POLYPROPELENE layer against his/her body to wick-away the moisture ... and, the then "new" word to the common lexicon that was used was "synergy" to describe the layering system the end-user was supposed to use to achieve the greatest benefit from the GoreTex outer layer -- polypropelene / shirt / sweater / GoreTex shell.

Polypropelene garments come in several "weights" ... yes, it's the same material used for bristles in many brooms!

Go to REI ... or, anyplace that sells hunting-and-camping gear (e.g., KMART, WALMART) ... and, ask for the weight that is suitable for XC skiing.

You don't need to wear GoreTex to wear use polypropelene under garments ...

So, when you are riding in conditions when it isn't actually raining, as I mentioned in another thread, you may want to consider other windproof fabrics which are moderately water-resistant (i.e., water droplets will bead on the fabric for a while ... but, eventually, the fabric will become saturated) -- 60-40, 65-35, Supplex, etc. -- all are "good enough" (to varying degrees) for a light rain IF you are wearing the proper under layers ... you can spray your windproof fabric with some SCOTCHGUARD if you want to increase their water repellency.

BOILED WOOL garments are windproof & water resistant (probably the stuff that Mallory, Hillary & other early expedition climbers used just underneath their outer shells ....), but much heavier than other fabrics/garments ... and, not cheap.
 
I just got an O2 rainsuit and relized that its totaty usless unless standing still, before a heavy ride, not after.

I use polypropaline shirts that stink realy bad with just a little sweat. I rinse tham out after but the next time I use them they stink any how. My wool sox do not stink.

I am now going to find a Jacket that is vented front back and under the arms. Its not cheap to waste money on **** that doesn't work.
 
jawnn said:
I just got an O2 rainsuit and relized that its totaty usless unless standing still, before a heavy ride, not after.

I use polypropaline shirts that stink realy bad with just a little sweat. I rinse tham out after but the next time I use them they stink any how. My wool sox do not stink.

I am now going to find a Jacket that is vented front back and under the arms. Its not cheap to waste money on **** that doesn't work.

Yes, traditional rainsuits do cause you to get soaked with sweat if you're exerting yourself at all in the rain. That's been known since they invented the things long ago.

Not all polypro shirts stink. There are quite a few makes out there that address the stink in various ways with good success. Wool will also stink given the right time or circumstances. It does not have some mysterious anti-stink mechanism.

A jacket with vents whose fabric isn't breathable will still make you sweat. If you've ever spent time on a motorcycle in the summer, with an unperforated but vented leather jacket, you'd see this.

Microfiber fabrics offer nearly perfect wind protection and protection from light rain, while still being exceptionally breathable.

In a drizzle or heavy rain, no matter what protection your wearing, you'll get soaked from sweat. It's a fact of life.

BTW, you should work on your spelling an sentence construction for your blog. Commenting on polypropylene while misspelling it doesn't lend much credence to your opinions. Your topics have trouble maintaining a logical train of thought and tend to wander.
 
just bought a jacket from North Face. It's breathable, waterproof, and windproof, and dries extremely fast. My first layer is a Duofold longsleeve. I guess it's like underarmour. It wicks moisture away. 2nd layer is a road runner sports turtleneck. It also wicks moisture away. My third and outer layer is my new jacket. What I have found is that when I sweat these layers are all wicking moisture out to the outer layer that dries extremely fast. On my climbs I open my jacket to let air thru which helps me not sweat as bad. On the downhill I zipp up and dry out on the way down. The jacket is what impresses me. It lets the moisture out but doesn't let the wind penetrate thru it. It's the lightest I've ever dressed and the warmest I've ever stayed. I don't ride below 20 deg. F.
 
dbackmtg said:
just bought a jacket from North Face. It's breathable, waterproof, and windproof, and dries extremely fast.

Which North Face jacket?