Worlds TT - advice wanted



peterwright

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Mar 5, 2003
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I am coaching a rider who has raced the 70+ age group TT at worlds for the last few years and has been getting closer and closer to the top. He seems to have plateaued a little however and this year was 8th at 2 mins down over 20km rolling course.

He is committed to riding the event next year and dedicating the next 12 months to giving it the best shot he can. He has now got a new TT bike (used this year) and has all the necessary equipment.

I estimate that his FTP is ~280w at 70kg and that he is around ~40-50w down on the winners power.

I estimate that FTP is a relative strength and that L5 & L6 are very weak.

If you were coaching him, what would your plan be - he has plenty of time and is in good health.

Any thoughts / help appreciated.
 

otb4evr

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Apr 22, 2005
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peterwright said:
I am coaching a rider who has raced the 70+ age group TT at worlds for the last few years and has been getting closer and closer to the top. He seems to have plateaued a little however and this year was 8th at 2 mins down over 20km rolling course.

He is committed to riding the event next year and dedicating the next 12 months to giving it the best shot he can. He has now got a new TT bike (used this year) and has all the necessary equipment.

I estimate that his FTP is ~280w at 70kg and that he is around ~40-50w down on the winners power.

I estimate that FTP is a relative strength and that L5 & L6 are very weak.

If you were coaching him, what would your plan be - he has plenty of time and is in good health.

Any thoughts / help appreciated.
70+ and 4 w/kg...

I don't think that is too shabby...

You already know what his weaknesses are. Work on them, along with some aerodynamics, and you just might have it...

Raise that wattage ceiling...

If you have been working with this person, you have had the chance to get inside of their head...

What works?

Jim
 

dome

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Feb 23, 2005
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What does his Power/Duration Curve show his 30 minute power to be?
 

peterwright

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otb4evr said:
70+ and 4 w/kg...

I don't think that is too shabby...

You already know what his weaknesses are. Work on them, along with some aerodynamics, and you just might have it...

Raise that wattage ceiling...

If you have been working with this person, you have had the chance to get inside of their head...

What works?

Jim

He is doing well and I was disappointed by this years result - although 3 of the guys that beat him had just moved up an age group.

We bith feel that in order to helo the variable pacing strategy, that he needs more V02 ceiling and even some improvement in AWC - he also struggles to get much competition in SA as there is virtually no TT's to race.

Also more time on hi TT bike.
 

peterwright

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otb4evr said:
How have you done his FTP test?

We train him on Cardgirus Ergometers and have done many 20km and 20 min TT tests and also many 2 x 20 intervals - from this I have estimated FTP.
 

otb4evr

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Apr 22, 2005
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peterwright said:
We train him on Cardgirus Ergometers and have done many 20km and 20 min TT tests and also many 2 x 20 intervals - from this I have estimated FTP.
My advice to you is to test him via the Critical Power method.

[size=-1]www.velo-fit.com/articles/critical-power.pdf

This will provide you with a better view of what he can do as far as variable pacing.

I usually use the following timed intervals: 1 minute, 5 minute, 12 minute, and 20 minute.

This also fits very well into the power profile: http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/profile.asp

This will allow you to nail down strengths and weaknesses...

Jim


[/size]
 

RapDaddyo

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May 17, 2005
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Is the course known? Is it the same course? What are its attributes (hills and standard winds)? Does he race with a PM? Which one?

I agree with Jim's recommendation re. CP Model testing, initially and ongoing. I suggest 3, 8, 30min test durations (that's what I use).

I assume you have addressed all the drag and resistance issues (position, wheels, tires, helmet). Has he done any wind tunnel testing (maybe you don't have access)? Do you have any photos of his aero position on his TT bike?
 

peterwright

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RapDaddyo said:
Is the course known? Is it the same course? What are its attributes (hills and standard winds)? Does he race with a PM? Which one?

I agree with Jim's recommendation re. CP Model testing, initially and ongoing. I suggest 3, 8, 30min test durations (that's what I use).

I assume you have addressed all the drag and resistance issues (position, wheels, tires, helmet). Has he done any wind tunnel testing (maybe you don't have access)? Do you have any photos of his aero position on his TT bike?

The course is the same every year - rolling - will try and paste a profile.

I have spent a fair bit of time on his poition but it can always be improved - I have a wav file of him riding but not sure how to insert it for you ?

Will do Monod CP as suggested - thanks.
 

RapDaddyo

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peterwright said:
The course is the same every year - rolling - will try and paste a profile.
What is the course? Where is it? Do you have or can you get a GPS tracking file of the course? What is it, out/back, closed loop?
 

gvanwagner

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Jan 25, 2006
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RapDaddyo said:
What is the course? Where is it? Do you have or can you get a GPS tracking file of the course? What is it, out/back, closed loop?
What is his 5 and 1 min power? . An estimate of TSS this year? As far as position- the rule of thumb that Ive heard is for every .01 cda reduction ~5watts. So really do everything possible- it's free speed and more productive per hour than training.
 

peterwright

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gvanwagner said:
What is his 5 and 1 min power? . An estimate of TSS this year? As far as position- the rule of thumb that Ive heard is for every .01 cda reduction ~5watts. So really do everything possible- it's free speed and more productive per hour than training.

TSS per week has probably been ~500

CP for shorter durations as yet untested.

Position issues - noted strongly

I have a course profile in excel chart now - help me to post it ?
 

gvanwagner

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Jan 25, 2006
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peterwright said:
TSS per week has probably been ~500

CP for shorter durations as yet untested.

Position issues - noted strongly

I have a course profile in excel chart now - help me to post it ?
I'd strongly recomend doing a 5 min power test because different values require different training composition see any improvement. If the ratio is 1.15 that's a whole different ballgame then if its 1.35 or higher. With him you'll probably won't see a 1.30+ value because of his age/experience. So that might make your job more complicated- but then again that's why coaching isn't free...

Also, the obvious is that if he can then training overload could go up. But then again you know whether he can handle more better than any of us.
 

gvanwagner

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Jan 25, 2006
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gvanwagner said:
I'd strongly recomend doing a 5 min power test because different values require different training composition see any improvement. If the ratio is 1.15 that's a whole different ballgame then if its 1.35 or higher. With him you'll probably won't see a 1.30+ value because of his age/experience. So that might make your job more complicated- but then again that's why coaching isn't free...

Also, the obvious is that if he can then training overload could go up. But then again you know whether he can handle more better than any of us.
Oh, and what other racing does he have in mind besides this TT or is it all for that one day?
 

erik44gary

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Mar 7, 2004
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Hi! I've done that course now for 5 years and I'd have to say I wouldn't describe it as rolling. I'd say flat with one hill about 1km out from the turn around which I suspect is the most significant part of the course...for me anyway. I live in Melbourne and TT's are a scarcity here too.

Checking on the results I see he did 30.27 minutes for the course...despite my erik44gary name I'm actually a 62yr old female and I rode 30.39 (a PB) this year, so I think my experiences and training are valid.

During the preceding year I spent a lot of time on my TT bike, once I had got myself into a really good aerodynamic position..I had to get a stem made for me to get me into that position which I settled on with the help of a (heavy) look ergo stem. I also did nit picking things like getting a TT FSA solid 53 chain ring, took the polar senor off my forks and got a cateye one that sat behind on the chain stay and got a new aero helmet.

Training...Prior to getting my position nailed I did alot of my riding on the drops, which is not my usual..in order to engage my gluts more. I also dragged my self kicking and sceaming to the gym...squats, dead lifts etc. the sad thiing about being older is that you just have to keep up the gym stuff if you want to keep strong..it disappears all too quickly.

In March I bought a powertap and although my coach was still using HRM. I was keeping an eye on my watts, I also raced it on the 3 TT's prior to leaving Aus which gave me a good insight into my pacing. I had to travel miles to find these races and did one a month. NO road races or crits. If I race too much prior to a big event I spend too much of valuable time recovering from the effort.

I spent alot of time doing short intervals up hills and longer intervals at my aimed for pacing which was 40kph. (I managed 39.15 avg on the day..a PB). I do all my training alone which probably helped me this year as I was first off in my class..they only rank the top 3 from the previous year.

During my other sporting life(orienteering) I had some sports psychology advice which continues to help me .

My final build up before the event was the masters racing week in Deutschlandsberg in southern austria, which has a dead flat TT on the saturday, giving you 3 day's recovery time for checking out the course at St Johann.

I hope this somewhat self indulgent long post is of some help.

Liz (aka erik44gary)
 

peterwright

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Mar 5, 2003
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erik44gary said:
Hi! I've done that course now for 5 years and I'd have to say I wouldn't describe it as rolling. I'd say flat with one hill about 1km out from the turn around which I suspect is the most significant part of the course...for me anyway. I live in Melbourne and TT's are a scarcity here too.

Checking on the results I see he did 30.27 minutes for the course...despite my erik44gary name I'm actually a 62yr old female and I rode 30.39 (a PB) this year, so I think my experiences and training are valid.

During the preceding year I spent a lot of time on my TT bike, once I had got myself into a really good aerodynamic position..I had to get a stem made for me to get me into that position which I settled on with the help of a (heavy) look ergo stem. I also did nit picking things like getting a TT FSA solid 53 chain ring, took the polar senor off my forks and got a cateye one that sat behind on the chain stay and got a new aero helmet.

Training...Prior to getting my position nailed I did alot of my riding on the drops, which is not my usual..in order to engage my gluts more. I also dragged my self kicking and sceaming to the gym...squats, dead lifts etc. the sad thiing about being older is that you just have to keep up the gym stuff if you want to keep strong..it disappears all too quickly.

In March I bought a powertap and although my coach was still using HRM. I was keeping an eye on my watts, I also raced it on the 3 TT's prior to leaving Aus which gave me a good insight into my pacing. I had to travel miles to find these races and did one a month. NO road races or crits. If I race too much prior to a big event I spend too much of valuable time recovering from the effort.

I spent alot of time doing short intervals up hills and longer intervals at my aimed for pacing which was 40kph. (I managed 39.15 avg on the day..a PB). I do all my training alone which probably helped me this year as I was first off in my class..they only rank the top 3 from the previous year.

During my other sporting life(orienteering) I had some sports psychology advice which continues to help me .

My final build up before the event was the masters racing week in Deutschlandsberg in southern austria, which has a dead flat TT on the saturday, giving you 3 day's recovery time for checking out the course at St Johann.

I hope this somewhat self indulgent long post is of some help.

Liz (aka erik44gary)

Thanks Liz - that is really helpful. Are you going next year ?

What was your NP for that sort of time (w/kg) ?
 

otb4evr

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Apr 22, 2005
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erik44gary said:
I hope this somewhat self indulgent long post is of some help.

Liz (aka erik44gary)
Liz,

Fantastic post...

Congrats on the PR along with a great ride...

Jim