Would anyone like to play "Identify this frame?"

[Marc]

I recently picked up a very nice looking steel frame. It had some very
interesting detail on it, and for the price, I couldn't go wrong.

I'm getting ready to build it up... but I can't seem to figure out who
made this in the first place. I would imagine that someone out there
has seen this manufacturer before. If you would like to play "ID that
frame," please click this link:
http://plaza.ufl.edu/randazza/MysteryFrame/

I've tried to take shots of the identifying features of the frame.

Anyone got a hint as to what I might have here? I'm certain it is
nothing of great value. But, it would be nice to know who put such
effort into this nice piece and give credit where it is due when
someone asks "what is that frame you're riding there?"

Thank you in advance for any help that you can provide.

 

[Bob Wheeler]

Marc wrote:

> I recently picked up a very nice looking steel frame. It had some very
> interesting detail on it, and for the price, I couldn't go wrong.
>
> I'm getting ready to build it up... but I can't seem to figure out who
> made this in the first place. I would imagine that someone out there
> has seen this manufacturer before. If you would like to play "ID that
> frame," please click this link:
> http://plaza.ufl.edu/randazza/MysteryFrame/
>
> I've tried to take shots of the identifying features of the frame.
>
> Anyone got a hint as to what I might have here? I'm certain it is
> nothing of great value. But, it would be nice to know who put such
> effort into this nice piece and give credit where it is due when
> someone asks "what is that frame you're riding there?"
>
> Thank you in advance for any help that you can provide.
>

I'm no expert, but I don't think you will identify it from the lugs,
because they appear to be standard, available on many frames.

--
Bob Wheeler --- http://www.bobwheeler.com/
ECHIP, Inc. ---
Randomness comes in bunches.

 

[Donald Gillies]

To identify a frameset, you need the following features :

(a) Bottom bracket area

(b) Head tubes showing upper and lower lugs

(c) Fork crown. YOU ARE MISSING THIS ONE.

(d) Seat Tube Attachment. A SIDE VIEW WOULD BE BETTER.

(e) Special Braze-ons. You have the bottom bracket area. YOU ARE
MISSING THE REAR CENTERPULL CABLE STOP.

(f) Rear dropouts including brazing connection to the dropouts. THIS
IS A SIGNATURE THING FOR MANY FRAME BUILDERS.

(g) An estimate of the serial number, if any.

If you post the missing pictures it would help a lot. So far, your
frame looks like a late 1960's raleigh but I cannot be sure because
(f) is incomplete. The front fork looks like a Tange replacement fork
but I cannot be sure since (c) is missing. I have not seen the
diamond cutout on a raleigh, however, so I need more information.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

 

[Donald Gillies]

It's _NOT_ a raleigh or a schwinn. This rules out the vast majority
of the bikes made from 1960-1985.

The fork looks like a cheap replacement. I have something similar in
the garage. Double-sided eyelets were common on Tange replacement
forks.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

 

[Donald Gillies]

It's _NOT_ a raleigh or a schwinn. This rules out the vast majority
of the bikes made from 1960-1985. You are missing the following
useful pictures :

(a) Picture of rear dropout including derailleur mount, close-up.

I think that you have stamped dropouts which means a cheap carbon
steel frameset. If they were forged european there would be a good
chance of reynolds steel in the bike. If they were forged asian the
frame would likely be chromoly 4130.

It's always good to post a closeup of the derailleur side dropout. On
high end frameset we could identify it by the dropout attachment alone
since this was an still is a signature item on many high end bikes
(raleigh/schwinn, colnago, masi, richard sachs, bruce gordon, etc.)

The fork looks like a cheap replacement. I have something similar in
the garage. Double-sided eyelets of that type were common on Tange
replacement forks. You might check for alignment problems to see if
it's been in a crash - hidden by the repaint. that semi sloping crown
is an inexpensive Asian Everest I believe. See this link (C52) :

www.framebuilding.com

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

 

[Donald Gillies]

It's _NOT_ a raleigh or a schwinn. This rules out the vast majority
of the bikes made from 1960-1982. You are missing the following
useful pictures :

(a) Picture of rear dropout including derailleur mount, close-up.

I think that you have stamped dropouts which means a cheap carbon
steel frameset. If they were forged european there would be a good
chance of reynolds steel in the bike. If they were forged asian the
frame would likely be chromoly 4130, tange, or other asian chromoly.

It's always good to post a closeup of the derailleur side dropout. On
high end frameset we could identify it by the dropout attachment alone
since this was and still is a signature item on many high end bikes
(raleigh = schwinn, colnago, masi, richard sachs, bruce gordon, etc.)

The fork looks like a cheap replacement. I have something similar in
the garage. Double-sided eyelets of that type were common on Tange
replacement forks. You might check for alignment problems to see if
it's been in a crash - hidden by the repaint. that semi sloping crown
is an inexpensive Asian Everest I believe. See this link (C52) :

www.framebuilding.com

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

 

[Marc]

Donald Gillies wrote:
> It's _NOT_ a raleigh or a schwinn. This rules out the vast majority
> of the bikes made from 1960-1985. You are missing the following
> useful pictures :
>
> (a) Picture of rear dropout including derailleur mount, close-up.
>
> I think that you have stamped dropouts which means a cheap carbon
> steel frameset. If they were forged european there would be a good
> chance of reynolds steel in the bike. If they were forged asian the
> frame would likely be chromoly 4130.
>
> It's always good to post a closeup of the derailleur side dropout.
On
> high end frameset we could identify it by the dropout attachment
alone
> since this was an still is a signature item on many high end bikes
> (raleigh/schwinn, colnago, masi, richard sachs, bruce gordon, etc.)
>
> The fork looks like a cheap replacement. I have something similar in
> the garage. Double-sided eyelets of that type were common on Tange
> replacement forks. You might check for alignment problems to see if
> it's been in a crash - hidden by the repaint. that semi sloping
crown
> is an inexpensive Asian Everest I believe. See this link (C52) :
>
> www.framebuilding.com
>
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA



OK, thanks for the lesson - I have added a picture of the drive-side
dropout. I dont know if you can see it, but it is a Suntour dropout.

I'm *certain* that it is not a treasure or long-lost super-valuable
frame. If it were, I wouldnt have gotten it for twenty bucks! But, I
would like to give credit where it is due... and know what I'm riding.


Thanks for the insight -- to everyone -- and I look forward to more.
(and of course, I really look forward to the inevitable tangents that
this thread may take).

-Marc

 

[JeffWills]

Marc wrote:
>
> OK, thanks for the lesson - I have added a picture of the drive-side
> dropout. I dont know if you can see it, but it is a Suntour dropout.
>
> I'm *certain* that it is not a treasure or long-lost super-valuable
> frame. If it were, I wouldnt have gotten it for twenty bucks! But,
I
> would like to give credit where it is due... and know what I'm
riding.
>


It's an interesting combination- clamp-on upper gear cable stop and
brazed-on guides everywhere else. It *might* have come with downtube
shifters originally, then switched to bar-cons later. That's what the
"little detail"
http://plaza.ufl.edu/randazza/MysteryFrame/Larger_pictures/downtube_detail.JPG
indicates to me. The seat binder looks upscale to me.

I'd guess that it's from a early/mid-80's Japanese-built touring bike.
Nishiki, Centurion, Univega and Specialized come to mind. It's a
keeper, that's for sure.

Jeff

 

[Marc]

Oh yes, I agree that it is a keeper. I just thought it was the coolest
looking frame. I've wanted to build a tourer for a while, but I wanted
to do it on something a little eccentric. I think I've found it!
Now... let the "gathering of the parts" begin! I've got a spare set of
campy wheels, and *somewhere* in a garage in Massachusetts, there is a
triple Campy Veloce crank that has been annoying my dad for five
years...

Oh, by the way, I finally got enough light on the bottom bracket to get
the serial number -- 1905261. Does that shed any light on this frame's
parentage?

 

[JeffWills]

Marc wrote:
> Oh yes, I agree that it is a keeper. I just thought it was the
coolest
> looking frame. I've wanted to build a tourer for a while, but I
wanted
> to do it on something a little eccentric. I think I've found it!
> Now... let the "gathering of the parts" begin! I've got a spare set
of
> campy wheels, and *somewhere* in a garage in Massachusetts, there is
a
> triple Campy Veloce crank that has been annoying my dad for five
> years...
>

I'd probably take it and make a single- or three-speed out of it... a
bombproof gracery/errand bike. My current favorite "grab 'n' go" bike
is a converted Raleigh Grand Prix single speed- straight bars, plastic
pedals, not much else. With light wheels, it's a hoot to ride.


> Oh, by the way, I finally got enough light on the bottom bracket to
get
> the serial number -- 1905261. Does that shed any light on this
frame's
> parentage?


No freakin' clue. Judging by the location and the (blurry) type in the
serial number, it could still be any number of imported Japanese
frames. National built frames for several different companies
(including Schwinn) in that era. That's fuzzy, though- my memory of
non-Schwinn Japanese bikes isn't perfect.


Jeff

 

[Marc]

I'm thinking a singlespeed just along those lines. I'm thinking of
putting fixed gear wheel on the back, and fenders and maybe panniers.