Ya gotta love Tosi



C

Carl Sundquist

Guest
For his consistency. Purloined from rec.motorcycles.racing:

"Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Julian Bond <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Let's say you could take the best of the best from the
> >modern GP era and transport them from when they were in
> >their prime to now. How would they finish? eg in a race
> >or season like this on today's 4 strokes.
> >
> >Doohan - Honda Lawson - Honda Gardner - Honda Criville -
> >Honda Rossi - Yamaha Rainey - Yamaha Kenny Roberts -
> >Yamaha Schwantz - Give him a Yamaha as well so he's not
> >completely handicapped
>
> But are these guys really the best ever? If I had to
> choose the best 4 motorbike world championships riders
> ever, they would be: Duke, Surtees, Mike the bike and Ago.
> They all emerged from a much more competitive scene than
> the '80s-'90s
one.
> Those 4 guys would have easily lapped all those
> yankee/aussie guys. It's the genetic superiority of the
> European cream compared to nations born out of convicts
> and refugees.
 
"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> For his consistency. Purloined from
> rec.motorcycles.racing:
>
>
> "Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Julian Bond <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >Let's say you could take the best of the best from the
> > >modern GP era
and
> > >transport them from when they were in their prime to
> > >now. How would
they
> > >finish? eg in a race or season like this on today's 4
> > >strokes.
> > >
> > >Doohan - Honda Lawson - Honda Gardner - Honda Criville
> > >- Honda Rossi - Yamaha Rainey - Yamaha Kenny Roberts -
> > >Yamaha Schwantz - Give him a Yamaha as well so he's not
> > >completely handicapped
> >
> > But are these guys really the best ever? If I had to
> > choose the best 4 motorbike world championships riders
> > ever, they would be: Duke, Surtees, Mike the bike and
> > Ago. They all emerged from a much more competitive scene
> > than the '80s-'90s
> one.
> > Those 4 guys would have easily lapped all those
> > yankee/aussie guys. It's the genetic superiority of the
> > European cream compared to nations born out of convicts
> > and refugees.

Funny how he does give Kenny Roberts a chance

Dave
 
"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> For his consistency. Purloined from
> rec.motorcycles.racing:
>
>
> "Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Julian Bond <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >Let's say you could take the best of the best from the
> > >modern GP era
and
> > >transport them from when they were in their prime to
> > >now. How would
they
> > >finish? eg in a race or season like this on today's 4
> > >strokes.
> > >
> > >Doohan - Honda Lawson - Honda Gardner - Honda Criville
> > >- Honda Rossi - Yamaha Rainey - Yamaha Kenny Roberts -
> > >Yamaha Schwantz - Give him a Yamaha as well so he's not
> > >completely handicapped
> >
> > But are these guys really the best ever? If I had to
> > choose the best 4 motorbike world championships riders
> > ever, they would be: Duke, Surtees, Mike the bike and
> > Ago. They all emerged from a much more competitive scene
> > than the '80s-'90s
> one.
> > Those 4 guys would have easily lapped all those
> > yankee/aussie guys. It's the genetic superiority of the
> > European cream compared to nations born out of convicts
> > and refugees.

Well, the problem with that is that except for Roberts he is
correct. I believe that Kenny could ride with those four.
But almost certainly not the rest on the list. You have to
remember that the Iron Duke was riding on 500 cc singles
like Manx Nortons if memory serves. Surtees and Hailwood
were riding the early Hondas which handled about as well as
a shopping car would at the 150 mph that their engines would
motivate them. Moreover the tires were NOTHING like they
have today. Ago was winning against Hailwood very often
despite the fact that he had a 15% power deficit.

Today's motorcycles are like surgeon's scalpels compared to
bikes during those guys times. They raced over rough roads
without barriers and in conditions where Duke was once
quoted as "When the fog is on the mountain I count the
seconds between turns and throw the bike over."

Nahh, Tosi is correct.
 
In article <%[email protected]>,
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
> > For his consistency. Purloined from
> > rec.motorcycles.racing:
> >
> >
> > "Davide Tosi" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > message news:[email protected]...
> > > Julian Bond <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Let's say you could take the best of the best from
> > > >the modern GP era
> and
> > > >transport them from when they were in their prime to
> > > >now. How would
> they
> > > >finish? eg in a race or season like this on today's 4
> > > >strokes.
> > > >
> > > >Doohan - Honda Lawson - Honda Gardner - Honda
> > > >Criville - Honda Rossi - Yamaha Rainey - Yamaha Kenny
> > > >Roberts - Yamaha Schwantz - Give him a Yamaha as well
> > > >so he's not completely handicapped
> > >
> > > But are these guys really the best ever? If I had to
> > > choose the best 4 motorbike world championships riders
> > > ever, they would be: Duke, Surtees, Mike the bike and
> > > Ago. They all emerged from a much more competitive
> > > scene than the '80s-'90s
> > one.
> > > Those 4 guys would have easily lapped all those
> > > yankee/aussie guys. It's the genetic superiority of
> > > the European cream compared to nations born out of
> > > convicts and refugees.
>
> Well, the problem with that is that except for Roberts he
> is correct. I believe that Kenny could ride with those
> four. But almost certainly not the rest on the list. You
> have to remember that the Iron Duke was riding on 500 cc
> singles like Manx Nortons if memory serves. Surtees and
> Hailwood were riding the early Hondas which handled about
> as well as a shopping car would at the 150 mph that their
> engines would motivate them. Moreover the tires were
> NOTHING like they have today. Ago was winning against
> Hailwood very often despite the fact that he had a 15%
> power deficit.
>
> Today's motorcycles are like surgeon's scalpels compared
> to bikes during those guys times. They raced over rough
> roads without barriers and in conditions where Duke was
> once quoted as "When the fog is on the mountain I count
> the seconds between turns and throw the bike over."
>
> Nahh, Tosi is correct.
>
>

I think his point was to put all of them on equal bikes
now (with each rider at his prime). There's no doubt that
the four David listed were brilliant racers - the fact
that they could successfully ride and win in multiple
classes on the same day shows great versatility. But I
don't think it would be all that clear cut for their
superiority in the hypothetical situation here. All the
gyus listed above (Criville excepted - he was good, but
not great, imo) are exceptional riders, too. They came
from the era of two strokes, when the horsepower and
delivery of it frequently far outstripped the tires.
Doohan has 54 wins in 500.

--
tanx, Howard

"The fickleness of fame and fortune's
caprice Together changed the life of Mason
Reese" Alice Donut

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Ilan Vardi) wrote:

> "Dave H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > message news:[email protected]...
> > > For his consistency. Purloined from
> > > rec.motorcycles.racing:
> >
> > Funny how he does give Kenny Roberts a chance
>
> Yes, but which one?
>
> -ilan

The old man (aka "the real KR").

--
tanx, Howard

"The fickleness of fame and fortune's
caprice Together changed the life of Mason
Reese" Alice Donut

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
"Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Ilan Vardi) wrote:
>
> > "Dave H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> > > "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in
> > > message news:[email protected]...
> > > > For his consistency. Purloined from
> > > > rec.motorcycles.racing:
> > >
> > > Funny how he does give Kenny Roberts a chance
> >
> > Yes, but which one?
> >
> > -ilan
>
> The old man (aka "the real KR").

actually I meant to say how he DOESN'T give Kenny a
chance Dave
 
"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<%[email protected]>...
> Well, the problem with that is that except for Roberts he
> is correct. I believe that Kenny could ride with those
> four. But almost certainly not the rest on the list. You
> have to remember that the Iron Duke was riding on 500 cc
> singles like Manx Nortons if memory serves. Surtees and
> Hailwood were riding the early Hondas which handled about
> as well as a shopping car would at the 150 mph that their
> engines would motivate them. Moreover the tires were
> NOTHING like they have today. Ago was winning against
> Hailwood very often despite the fact that he had a 15%
> power deficit.
>
> Today's motorcycles are like surgeon's scalpels compared
> to bikes during those guys times. They raced over rough
> roads without barriers and in conditions where Duke was
> once quoted as "When the fog is on the mountain I count
> the seconds between turns and throw the bike over."

By this standard, no rider of today, regardless of what they
do, could ever be compared with the "greats of old". It's a
romantic view of the past that ignores the vast progress
made in the sport in the dedication and skill of the riders,
as well as the advancements in safety and technology.

Zub
 
In article <B%[email protected]>,
"Dave H" <[email protected]> wrote:

> actually I meant to say how he DOESN'T give Kenny a
> chance Dave

Well, he didn't give *anyone* a chance, really.

--
tanx, Howard

"The fickleness of fame and fortune's
caprice Together changed the life of Mason
Reese" Alice Donut

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
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