Yogurt question

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Jim Marnott, Feb 7, 2004.

  1. Jim Marnott

    Jim Marnott Guest

    If I use pasteurized milk to make my yogurt, why do I have to heat it up to 180 or 190 degrees
    before allowing it to drop back down to 110. Doesn't the pasteurization done during processing kill
    all the bacteria?

    It seems like a wasted 45-60 minutes while I heat it up to the higher temp and then wait for it to
    cool down. Wouldn't I be just as safe and get just as good a yogurt by heating it to 110 in the
    first place.

    Jim
     
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  2. X-Archive:No

    X-Archive:No Guest

    On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:26:52 -0500, Jim Marnott <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >If I use pasteurized milk to make my yogurt, why do I have to heat it up to 180 or 190 degrees
    >before allowing it to drop back down to 110. Doesn't the pasteurization done during processing kill
    >all the bacteria?
    >
    >It seems like a wasted 45-60 minutes while I heat it up to the higher temp and then wait for it to
    >cool down. Wouldn't I be just as safe and get just as good a yogurt by heating it to 110 in the
    >first place.
    >
    >Jim
    x-archive:no

    My thinking exactly. I skipped heating the milk and my yogurt came out just fine.
     
  3. Katra

    Katra Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Jim Marnott <[email protected]> wrote:

    > If I use pasteurized milk to make my yogurt, why do I have to heat it up to 180 or 190 degrees
    > before allowing it to drop back down to 110. Doesn't the pasteurization done during processing
    > kill all the bacteria?
    >
    > It seems like a wasted 45-60 minutes while I heat it up to the higher temp and then wait for it to
    > cool down. Wouldn't I be just as safe and get just as good a yogurt by heating it to 110 in the
    > first place.
    >
    > Jim
    >
    >

    I use powdered milk to make yogurt. Double the concentration...

    I start with hottish water and stick it in an ice chest filled with hot water with a bit of my
    culture. QED and 24 hours later, I have x amount of yogurt. I used to make it by the gallon...

    Never had a problem, makes a fantastic fat-free yogurt.

    K.

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  4. Jim Marnott wrote:

    > If I use pasteurized milk to make my yogurt, why do I have to heat it up to 180 or 190 degrees
    > before allowing it to drop back down to 110. Doesn't the pasteurization done during processing
    > kill all the bacteria?

    No. You're invoking a few chemical changes to the milk by scalding it *and* you're warming it up for
    the yogurt culture (which needs it warm in the first place). Besides, there are still a few bugs
    that have ended up in your milk after pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of
    killing *them* before they have a chance to get a foothold in your nutrient-rich environment. :)

    --
    Darryl L. Pierce <[email protected]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
    "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
     
  5. Jim Marnott

    Jim Marnott Guest

    Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
    > Jim Marnott wrote: Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after
    > pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of

    Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?

    --
    Jim Marnott
    231/194/194 (Hit goal on 22 Nov '03 -- exactly 6 months later) Atkins since 22 May '03 Gym since
    1 sept '03
     
  6. Reg

    Reg Guest

    Jim Marnott wrote:

    > Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
    >
    >> Jim Marnott wrote: Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after
    >> pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of
    >
    >
    > Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?
    >
    >

    Because the organisms which may compete with and diminish the yogurt culture are not pathogenic
    to humans.

    Scalding the milk when making yogurt is not a requirement, but it does result in a more
    consistent product.

    --
    Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com
     
  7. Jim Marnott

    Jim Marnott Guest

    Reg wrote:
    >
    > Jim Marnott wrote:
    >
    >> Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
    >>
    >>> Jim Marnott wrote: Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after
    >>> pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?
    >>
    >>
    >
    > Because the organisms which may compete with and diminish the yogurt culture are not pathogenic
    > to humans.
    >
    > Scalding the milk when making yogurt is not a requirement, but it does result in a more consistent
    > product.
    >

    OK. Thanks. That makes sense.
     
  8. Jim Marnott wrote:
    > Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
    >
    >> Jim Marnott wrote: Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after
    >> pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of
    >
    >
    > Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?

    Presumably your milk is refrigerated right up to the minute before you drink it. That's not a great
    environment for the buggies to grow. When making yogurt, you are purposely creating the right
    temperature for the yogurt organisms to flourish.

    --Lia
     
  9. Jim Marnott wrote:

    >> Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after pasteurization, and
    >> you're taking the extra precaution of
    >
    > Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?

    Because the acidic environment in your stomach takes care of the other bugs, and there's not
    enough of them to cause a problem for you. And, sitting in your refridgerator, the bugs aren't
    exactly growing.

    Would you drink a glass of milk that was left out for 12 hours at room temperature?

    --
    Darryl L. Pierce <[email protected]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
    "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
     
  10. Katra

    Katra Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Jim Marnott <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
    > > Jim Marnott wrote: Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after
    > > pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of
    >
    > Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?

    Because, your milk is kept cold which usually keeps residual bugs from multiplying for awhile. Why
    do you think milk eventually goes bad?

    When you incubate yogurt at a warm temp., you would encourage bad bugs to grow along with the ones
    you want to grow, and end up with contaminated yogurt supposedly.

    That is why I just use powdered milk. ;-) Works for me anyway.

    K.

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  11. Katra wrote:

    > That is why I just use powdered milk. ;-) Works for me anyway.

    I add NFDM to 2% to get an increase in milk solids just a little bit of fat when I make my yogurt.
    And, for some zing, a good 2 tbsp of honey. Then I scald, cool and put the batch in the oven for the
    night to set up.

    A few months ago, my wife asked me to make a batch of curried chicken for a lunch party she was
    going to with some friends. 2 nights before, I decided to make a double batch of yogurt to have
    plenty for the curry (I was making enough for 20 people). So I took my old, trusty enameled 6 quart
    pot and doubled my yogurt recipe (1 batch: 4 C milk, 1 C NFDM, 2 tbsp honey), put it on the stove
    and attempted to scald it.

    It took *forever* for the milk to finally get to temperature. I let it cool, and poured it into
    the container with the starter culture (from India). When it was all poured into the container is
    when I noticed that the honey has burned at the bottom of the pot. I went ahead and put it into
    the oven to set.

    The next day, I smelled the yogurt. It was like wet burned wood. The pot was beyond repair and I
    sadly had to toss it. I used the yogurt for the curry and it came out *excellent*! But, I lost my
    native indian yogurt that I had been maintaining for over 6 months... :(

    --
    Darryl L. Pierce <[email protected]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
    "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
     
  12. Katra

    Katra Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Darryl L. Pierce" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Katra wrote:
    >
    > > That is why I just use powdered milk. ;-) Works for me anyway.
    >
    > I add NFDM to 2% to get an increase in milk solids just a little bit of fat when I make my yogurt.
    > And, for some zing, a good 2 tbsp of honey. Then I scald, cool and put the batch in the oven for
    > the night to set up.
    >
    > A few months ago, my wife asked me to make a batch of curried chicken for a lunch party she was
    > going to with some friends. 2 nights before, I decided to make a double batch of yogurt to have
    > plenty for the curry (I was making enough for 20 people). So I took my old, trusty enameled 6
    > quart pot and doubled my yogurt recipe (1 batch: 4 C milk, 1 C NFDM, 2 tbsp honey), put it on the
    > stove and attempted to scald it.
    >
    > It took *forever* for the milk to finally get to temperature. I let it cool, and poured it into
    > the container with the starter culture (from India). When it was all poured into the container is
    > when I noticed that the honey has burned at the bottom of the pot. I went ahead and put it into
    > the oven to set.
    >
    > The next day, I smelled the yogurt. It was like wet burned wood. The pot was beyond repair and I
    > sadly had to toss it. I used the yogurt for the curry and it came out *excellent*! But, I lost my
    > native indian yogurt that I had been maintaining for over 6 months... :(
    >
    > --
    > Darryl L. Pierce <[email protected]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp -
    > <http://mypage.org/mcpierce> "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"

    One more good reason NOT to scald... ;-) Or use fresh milk.

    Really. It's not necessary if you use just straight powdered milk. Start with hot water and use
    twice the amount of powdered milk per cup of water called for.

    I used to use a 1 gallon glass jar to mix it in, then I would fill a styrofoam ice chest with hot
    water and put the gallon jar in there after adding a couple of tablespoons of yogurt from the
    previous batch. I originally started with a Dannon culture as I like the flavor.

    24 hours later, I had a gallon of wonderful fat free yogurt.

    Why do you not add the honey AFTER the yogurt has set up? If you melt the honey, it'd mix
    more easily.

    K.

    --
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    >,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<[email protected]>,,<
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  13. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Jim Marnott wrote:

    > Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
    >
    >> Jim Marnott wrote: Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after
    >> pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of
    >
    > Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?

    The heating before making yogurt is to get rid of bacteria that would compete with the lactobacilli
    that are introduced to ferment the milk. Some could overwhelm them and have you end up with
    something you don't want.

    Bob
     
  14. Katra wrote:

    >> The next day, I smelled the yogurt. It was like wet burned wood. The pot was beyond repair and I
    >> sadly had to toss it. I used the yogurt for the curry and it came out *excellent*! But, I lost my
    >> native indian yogurt that I had been maintaining for over 6 months... :(
    >
    > One more good reason NOT to scald... ;-) Or use fresh milk.

    The problem was that I didn't keep whisking the milk or didn't do it enough. The honey settled to
    the bottom of the pot and created a vicious cycle of raising the local boiling point while absorbing
    most of the heat from the stove top. That's why the pot was, in the end, unsavable. It had a layer
    of tempered, carmelized honey that wouldn't completely come off...

    > Really. It's not necessary if you use just straight powdered milk. Start with hot water and use
    > twice the amount of powdered milk per cup of water called for.
    >
    > I used to use a 1 gallon glass jar to mix it in, then I would fill a styrofoam ice chest with hot
    > water and put the gallon jar in there after adding a couple of tablespoons of yogurt from the
    > previous batch. I originally started with a Dannon culture as I like the flavor.
    >
    > 24 hours later, I had a gallon of wonderful fat free yogurt.

    I'll have to give that a try. I've used the NFDM to create a firmer yogurt, but not as the sole
    source of milk proteins.

    > Why do you not add the honey AFTER the yogurt has set up?

    I don't. I add it to the milk before scalding.

    --
    Darryl L. Pierce <[email protected]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
    "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
     
  15. Katra

    Katra Guest

    In article <[email protected]ws.teranews.com>,
    "Darryl L. Pierce,,," <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Katra wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > I used to use a 1 gallon glass jar to mix it in, then I would fill a styrofoam ice chest with
    > > hot water and put the gallon jar in there after adding a couple of tablespoons of yogurt from
    > > the previous batch. I originally started with a Dannon culture as I like the flavor.
    > >
    > > 24 hours later, I had a gallon of wonderful fat free yogurt.
    >
    > I'll have to give that a try. I've used the NFDM to create a firmer yogurt, but not as the sole
    > source of milk proteins.

    Let me know if it works for you as well as it worked for me. ;-) I like Dannon, so just started my
    own culture using a few tablespoons of their plain, live culture yogurt.

    >
    > > Why do you not add the honey AFTER the yogurt has set up?
    >
    > I don't. I add it to the milk before scalding.

    Why? Just curious, not being combative. ;-) I never add flavorings to yogurt until after it is made,
    but that's just me. <G>

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  16. Katra wrote:

    >> I'll have to give that a try. I've used the NFDM to create a firmer yogurt, but not as the sole
    >> source of milk proteins.
    >
    > Let me know if it works for you as well as it worked for me. ;-) I like Dannon, so just started my
    > own culture using a few tablespoons of their plain, live culture yogurt.

    That's what I've been using since I lost my other strain. And, yeah, I bought it 'cause Rachael Ray
    was on the container... :)

    >> > Why do you not add the honey AFTER the yogurt has set up?
    >>
    >> I don't. I add it to the milk before scalding.
    >
    > Why? Just curious, not being combative. ;-)

    It gives the yogurt an extra tanginess, the basic yogurt has a little more flavor to it.

    --
    Darryl L. Pierce <[email protected]> Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
    "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
     
  17. Katra

    Katra Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "Darryl L. Pierce,,," <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Katra wrote:
    >
    > >> I'll have to give that a try. I've used the NFDM to create a firmer yogurt, but not as the sole
    > >> source of milk proteins.
    > >
    > > Let me know if it works for you as well as it worked for me. ;-) I like Dannon, so just started
    > > my own culture using a few tablespoons of their plain, live culture yogurt.
    >
    > That's what I've been using since I lost my other strain. And, yeah, I bought it 'cause Rachael
    > Ray was on the container... :)
    >
    > >> > Why do you not add the honey AFTER the yogurt has set up?
    > >>
    > >> I don't. I add it to the milk before scalding.
    > >
    > > Why? Just curious, not being combative. ;-)
    >
    > It gives the yogurt an extra tanginess, the basic yogurt has a little more flavor to it.

    Makes sense. ;-) Probably feeds the culture a bit more nutrition.

    Hmmmmmmmm wonder what lactose would do for Kombucha? Separate thought, not the same thing, at
    all...... <G>

    K.

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  18. Barry Grau

    Barry Grau Guest

    Bob <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Jim Marnott wrote:
    >
    > > Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
    > >
    > >> Jim Marnott wrote: Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after
    > >> pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of
    > >
    > > Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?
    >
    > The heating before making yogurt is to get rid of bacteria that would compete with the
    > lactobacilli that are introduced to ferment the milk. Some could overwhelm them and have you end
    > up with something you don't want.
    >
    > Bob

    Is this still necessary in these days of pasteurized milk?

    -bwg
     
  19. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Barry Grau wrote:

    > Bob <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>Jim Marnott wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Jim Marnott wrote: Besides, there are still a few bugs that have ended up in your milk after
    >>>>pasteurization, and you're taking the extra precaution of
    >>>
    >>>Then why don't I have to heat my milk up before drinking it?
    >>
    >>The heating before making yogurt is to get rid of bacteria that would compete with the
    >>lactobacilli that are introduced to ferment the milk. Some could overwhelm them and have you end
    >>up with something you don't want.
    >>
    >>Bob
    >
    > Is this still necessary in these days of pasteurized milk?

    Yes. Pasteurized milk has had *most* of the critters killed. But an unopened container of milk will
    spoil after a while. It's because only *most* critters are dead. Making yogurt entails raising the
    temperature of the milk to more than 100F, ideal bacteria-growth territory. The ones that make
    yogurt are less hardy than many found in your container of milk. They'd be overwhelmed and you'd
    have a container full of stuff with maybe some bright yellow stripes in it. Yum, huh...?

    Pastorio
     
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