York Rally,Depressing ?

[Sam Salt]

As the York Rally approaches,why is it that every year people seem to
say it is **** and it's days are numbered ?

We have attended every year for the past six or seven years and have had
a very enjoyable weekend,staying at York Youth Hostel,meeting some
friendly people and picking up one or two bargains along the way.

Every year though come the Saturday or Sunday evening there seems to be
a depressing view as to it's future.One of the "gripes" is paying for a
programme to enter the trade area ( £2.50) which when you look at the
price of bikes/accessories seems quite reasonable to me.

After all there is no general admission fee to the Rally.

True,last years rally was not one of the best,probably due to the Ascot
problem but it wasn't that bad, but the doom mongers appeared to be out
in force.

I will keep my ears open for someone to say they have had a wonderful
weekend.

Sam Salt

 

[MSeries]

Sam Salt wrote:
> As the York Rally approaches,why is it that every year people seem to
> say it is **** and it's days are numbered ?
>
> We have attended every year for the past six or seven years and have had
> a very enjoyable weekend,staying at York Youth Hostel,meeting some
> friendly people and picking up one or two bargains along the way.
>
> Every year though come the Saturday or Sunday evening there seems to be
> a depressing view as to it's future.One of the "gripes" is paying for a
> programme to enter the trade area ( £2.50) which when you look at the
> price of bikes/accessories seems quite reasonable to me.
>
> After all there is no general admission fee to the Rally.
>
> True,last years rally was not one of the best,probably due to the Ascot
> problem but it wasn't that bad, but the doom mongers appeared to be out
> in force.
>
> I will keep my ears open for someone to say they have had a wonderful
> weekend.
>
> Sam Salt

i first went to York Rally in the late 80s then been every year since
1994. I can't say I have noticed much change. I know what to expect and
have not been dissappointed. I would prefer not to pay for my programme
but why not, someone has to pay to produce it. I like the rally for the
trade show and meeting other cyclists, the latter being the rallys
original raison d'etre. Some folk are never happy, what specifically
are there gripes ? Wha is now not there that used to be ?

 

[John B]

Sam Salt wrote:

> As the York Rally approaches,why is it that every year people seem to
> say it is **** and it's days are numbered ?

Do 'they'?
I'm sure a handful may moan about certain aspects, but I'm equally certain
that many thousands have a thoroughly enjoyable time.

John B

 

[[email protected]]

Sam Salt wrote:

> As the York Rally approaches,why is it that every year people seem to
> say it is **** and it's days are numbered ?

I first went to York Rally back in 1974, riding there from Hull when I
was 13, and although I have been a regular ever since, I must say it
does depress me somewhat nowadays. Nothing to do with the effort put in
by the organisers who do a great job. (Although it has to be said that
the bike show at York is a mere shadow of what it used to be). Rather,
when one has attended for so long on can see just how York Rally stands
for a past (and I would say better) era. I often joke that for me York
Rally weekend is a trip back to the 1950's, but unfortunately we now
live in the congested, car-centric 2000's and the transition back to
the present does tend to leave one feeling flat.

It must be even worse for those who have known the rally for longer
than me. One long-time stalwart of the Hull cycling scene told me how
in the 1950's he once looked behind himself whilst climbing Arras hill
out of Market Weighton at all the cyclists riding home from the rally
back to Hull. He said there was a constant line of cyclists all the way
down the hill, and as far as one could see. Nowadays hardly any use the
main York-Hull road which has become a traffic-choked racetrack.

Back in the '70's York Rally was a 'must' for every self-respecting
club rider, including those who raced. It was especially attractive to
school kids, and at that time cycling and even cycle racing was quite a
mainstream sport for kids. My school had grass-track events at the
school sports day, my local park had a series of summer schoolboy
criteriums attracting 40 riders or more. 'The comic' used to devote 2
page spreads to schoolboy championship races and every time-trial
result printed has its own 'schoolboy/girl' result list and so on. For
us kids back then York Rally was a big event, now very few kids ride to
York Rally (or ride time-trials come to that). Also many of the current
generation of 'racing lads' wouldn't be seen dead at York and are more
likely to see attending a car show or going out for a high-speed blast
in their cars as being 'a good day out'. (Look at a site such as
'veloriders' if you doubt me). All of this is symptomatic of the
increase in 'individualism' in British society, one example of which is
the decline in the traditional social aspect of club cycling.

Nowadays York is to a large extent the preserve of old timers and a few
'eco-friendlies' and at times I get the feeling that when the old boys
at last hang up their bikes, the cycling traditions represented by York
Rally will die too.

Of course, things don't have to be this way, the rally might be able to
change with the times, much as cycling in the UK generally has changed,
with mass club runs being replaced by individuals taking part in
'sportif's and so on. However, 'the old guard' inevitably want to
preserve what York Rally always has been, even though it's long-term
survival almost certainly means accommodating the 'modern' world. An
attempt was made to do just this back in 2000, when it became the
'National Festival of Cycling'. The traditionalists hated it and the
public stayed way in droves (50,000 were predicted to turn up, in the
end only 8-10,00 actually paid to see the show). The low attendance at
the 2000 show, which was aimed directly at the general public,
encourages one to think that not only are the days of 'traditional'
British cycling (as represented by York Rally) numbered, the bright new
future for cycling which everyone was looking forward to back in
1998-2000 ('A new deal for transport' and all that) was nothing more
than an idealistic dream.

So yes, York Rally is still a great event and if you are not a
long-term visitor you will not be aware of the subtle changes over the
years, but York Rally always leaves me pining for lost opportunities
and an almost lost age.

 

[Blonde]

[email protected] wrote:
> Sam Salt wrote:

> Back in the '70's York Rally was a 'must' for every self-respecting
> club rider, including those who raced. It was especially attractive to
> school kids, and at that time cycling and even cycle racing was quite a
> mainstream sport for kids. .. Nowadays York is to a large extent the preserve of old timers and a few
> 'eco-friendlies' and at times I get the feeling that when the old boys
> at last hang up their bikes, the cycling traditions represented by York
> Rally will die too.
>

I liked the fact last year that there were so many different types of
cyclist there, including families, racers, old timer, couples.. it was
good to see

 

[[email protected]]

Blonde wrote:
>
> I liked the fact last year that there were so many different types of
> cyclist there, including families, racers, old timer, couples.. it was
> good to see

Yes, the rally is still a great event, but it has changed in many
subtle ways over the years. For example, when I first attended most
people rode to the event, that was the whole point; it was a cycle
camping rally. Now the majority of campers come in cars.

You do get a few racing lads but few of these are full-on racing lads.
When I was a lad most racing cyclists started off as club cyclists and
not only wouldn't they have missed an event like York, they also looked
forward to the weekend club run. Now most dedicated racing lads
wouldn't even think of riding along at the pace of the old men and
novices on a club run just for the sociability of it, never mind mix
with, as they see it, a load of load of bearded, saddlebag carrying old
giffers.

As they say, things aren't what they used to be, and I don't think that
they have changed for the better.

 

[MSeries]

[email protected] wrote:
> Blonde wrote:
> >
> > I liked the fact last year that there were so many different types of
> > cyclist there, including families, racers, old timer, couples.. it was
> > good to see
>
> Yes, the rally is still a great event, but it has changed in many
> subtle ways over the years. For example, when I first attended most
> people rode to the event, that was the whole point; it was a cycle
> camping rally. Now the majority of campers come in cars.
>
> You do get a few racing lads but few of these are full-on racing lads.
> When I was a lad most racing cyclists started off as club cyclists and
> not only wouldn't they have missed an event like York, they also looked
> forward to the weekend club run. Now most dedicated racing lads
> wouldn't even think of riding along at the pace of the old men and
> novices on a club run just for the sociability of it, never mind mix
> with, as they see it, a load of load of bearded, saddlebag carrying old
> giffers.
>
> As they say, things aren't what they used to be, and I don't think that
> they have changed for the better.

Interesting points. So IYO are the old giffers whinging saying "it's
not like it used to be" and the younger racing fellows saying "there is
nothing for us, too many old giffers" ?

 

[Sam Salt]

John B wrote:
>
> Sam Salt wrote:
>
>> As the York Rally approaches,why is it that every year people seem to
>> say it is **** and it's days are numbered ?
>
> Do 'they'?
> I'm sure a handful may moan about certain aspects, but I'm equally certain
> that many thousands have a thoroughly enjoyable time.
>
> John B


Yes in my experience "they " do.

I do not know exactly what some people want out of the Rally.As far as I
am concerned it is all there for the taking.A bit of grass-track
racing,decent food ( some may disagree ),surrounded by like minded souls
in a convivial atmosphere,with a few bargains thrown in.

I am always pleased that no bright spark has ever suggested a beer-tent
as I think that would alter the atmosphere dramatically.

Sam Salt

 

[Pinky]

I am breaking my self imposed exile from this NG because I picked up a stray
reference to the York Cycle Show elsewhere. So many of the interminable
pro/anti helmet brigade will be able to throw mud at me temporarily. Very
temporarily indeed!
At 69 years old it will be the first time that I have ever been there and I
am looking forward to it. And I am cycling there from near Doncaster -- well
that's not quite true. I am cycling to Sheffield at 0600 hrs on 20 May to be
picked up by the Euro Bike Express and taken to Muhouse in Alsace.
From there I am truly cycling back -- eventually, to the York Cycle Show,
Down the Rhein to Koblenz, up the Mosel to Metz ( and Luxembourg) and back.
Onwards down the Rhein to Rotterdam and back by ferry to Hull on the night
of 22 June and then a final flourish to go to this annual event.
It is quite interesting looking at the few, various, comments on this topic.
May I say that as a born and bred Yorkshireman -- albeit I moved away at the
age of 16 and spent most of the rest of my life living in various and
different parts of the world --- but until 3 years ago I had never heard of
it.!
Why not? Because, I suspect, it was created and attended by that long
disappeared huge host of cyclists who where even then a "closed group".
CTC DA's were much more active then -- but also just a closeted - very much
a closed shop.
So I am looking forward to getting there. I am certainly looking forward to
the chance of trying out a few recumbents and I am sure that I can bore as
many people as who will try to bore me with tales of my travels. Although it
is not my scene I have also made enquiries about doing a 100 km Ron Kitchen
ride -- I reckon that after doing about 2000 kms on full touring load I
ought to be able to manage a 100 km day trip without my Bob Yak trailer!
So, hopefully, I shall be there -- adding and older, but not grizzly, and
totally new face to the cycle show.
Come and had a chat but flames are definitely not permitted near my tent!
( I have booked my pitch!)

That's it.
Bye till then!

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

"MSeries" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>> Blonde wrote:
>> >
>> > I liked the fact last year that there were so many different types of
>> > cyclist there, including families, racers, old timer, couples.. it was
>> > good to see
>>
>> Yes, the rally is still a great event, but it has changed in many
>> subtle ways over the years. For example, when I first attended most
>> people rode to the event, that was the whole point; it was a cycle
>> camping rally. Now the majority of campers come in cars.
>>
>> You do get a few racing lads but few of these are full-on racing lads.
>> When I was a lad most racing cyclists started off as club cyclists and
>> not only wouldn't they have missed an event like York, they also looked
>> forward to the weekend club run. Now most dedicated racing lads
>> wouldn't even think of riding along at the pace of the old men and
>> novices on a club run just for the sociability of it, never mind mix
>> with, as they see it, a load of load of bearded, saddlebag carrying old
>> giffers.
>>
>> As they say, things aren't what they used to be, and I don't think that
>> they have changed for the better.
>
> Interesting points. So IYO are the old giffers whinging saying "it's
> not like it used to be" and the younger racing fellows saying "there is
> nothing for us, too many old giffers" ?
>

 

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

I am depressed about the York Rally because I can't realistically go. My
mobility is too poor for me to camp with the lightweight section, which
to me is the only way to be part of the crowd.

I missed last year's Rally because my partner's brother married that
weekend, and the previous year because my choir had its summer concert
booked for that weekend. (The concert was cancelled at less than 24
hours' notice, meaning I'd lost out both ways :-( )

Before that, I'd probably been to at least 10 consecutive Rallies.

Ann Old Codger

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email protected]
Edgware.

 

[David Martin]

Pinky wrote:
> I am breaking my self imposed exile from this NG because I picked up a stray
> reference to the York Cycle Show elsewhere. So many of the interminable
> pro/anti helmet brigade will be able to throw mud at me temporarily. Very
> temporarily indeed!

Only if you raise the subject. Until then I'll happily buy you a pint
and listen to your travellers tales..

> So I am looking forward to getting there. I am certainly looking forward to
> the chance of trying out a few recumbents and I am sure that I can bore as
> many people as who will try to bore me with tales of my travels.

> Although it
> is not my scene I have also made enquiries about doing a 100 km Ron Kitchen
> ride -- I reckon that after doing about 2000 kms on full touring load I
> ought to be able to manage a 100 km day trip without my Bob Yak trailer!

No bother at all! Good fun with a like minded crowd.

> So, hopefully, I shall be there -- adding and older, but not grizzly, and
> totally new face to the cycle show.
> Come and had a chat but flames are definitely not permitted near my tent!
> ( I have booked my pitch!)

I've not booked mine but I'm sure there will be space. I'll look for
the BoB Yak and see what I can find. I might take a Saltire to hang on
the tent (cheap Argos Pro 1 green thingy). I'll be on a red and rusting
Schwinn MTB with weather symbols on the tyres and blue bar ends.
Probably a Lampre (Blue/fuschia) cloth cap.

I'm tempted by the RK rides but i will have done a significant portion
of my yearly mileage the previous two days so will probably chill out
around the exhibits and watch the racing/crash a few recumbents.

...d

 

[MSeries]

David Martin wrote:
> Pinky wrote:
>> I am breaking my self imposed exile from this NG because I picked up a stray
>> reference to the York Cycle Show elsewhere. So many of the interminable
>> pro/anti helmet brigade will be able to throw mud at me temporarily. Very
>> temporarily indeed!
>
> Only if you raise the subject. Until then I'll happily buy you a pint
> and listen to your travellers tales..
>
>> So I am looking forward to getting there. I am certainly looking forward to
>> the chance of trying out a few recumbents and I am sure that I can bore as
>> many people as who will try to bore me with tales of my travels.
>
>> Although it
>> is not my scene I have also made enquiries about doing a 100 km Ron Kitchen
>> ride -- I reckon that after doing about 2000 kms on full touring load I
>> ought to be able to manage a 100 km day trip without my Bob Yak trailer!
>
> No bother at all! Good fun with a like minded crowd.
>
>> So, hopefully, I shall be there -- adding and older, but not grizzly, and
>> totally new face to the cycle show.
>> Come and had a chat but flames are definitely not permitted near my tent!
>> ( I have booked my pitch!)
>
> I've not booked mine but I'm sure there will be space. I'll look for
> the BoB Yak and see what I can find. I might take a Saltire to hang on
> the tent (cheap Argos Pro 1 green thingy). I'll be on a red and rusting
> Schwinn MTB with weather symbols on the tyres and blue bar ends.
> Probably a Lampre (Blue/fuschia) cloth cap.
>
> I'm tempted by the RK rides but i will have done a significant portion
> of my yearly mileage the previous two days so will probably chill out
> around the exhibits and watch the racing/crash a few recumbents.
>
> ..d
>

I am booked on the campsite. I have a turquise VauDe MkII, with the
poles on the outside. My bike is a blue Raleigh Tourer. Not sure about
the RK rides yet. I might give them a miss and do my own thing to a cafe
or do one of the shorter rides.

 

[Blonde]

Well MSeries is booked in with me on the campsite and I'm also up for a
uk.rec ride if anyone else wants to arrange something with us.

 

[Pinky]

"MSeries" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> David Martin wrote:
>> Pinky wrote:
>>> I am breaking my self imposed exile from this NG because I picked up a
>>> stray
>>> reference to the York Cycle Show elsewhere. So many of the interminable
>>> pro/anti helmet brigade will be able to throw mud at me temporarily.
>>> Very
>>> temporarily indeed!
>>
>> Only if you raise the subject. Until then I'll happily buy you a pint
>> and listen to your travellers tales..
>>
>>> So I am looking forward to getting there. I am certainly looking forward
>>> to
>>> the chance of trying out a few recumbents and I am sure that I can bore
>>> as
>>> many people as who will try to bore me with tales of my travels.
>>
>>> Although it
>>> is not my scene I have also made enquiries about doing a 100 km Ron
>>> Kitchen
>>> ride -- I reckon that after doing about 2000 kms on full touring load I
>>> ought to be able to manage a 100 km day trip without my Bob Yak trailer!
>>
>> No bother at all! Good fun with a like minded crowd.
>>
>>> So, hopefully, I shall be there -- adding and older, but not grizzly,
>>> and
>>> totally new face to the cycle show.
>>> Come and had a chat but flames are definitely not permitted near my
>>> tent!
>>> ( I have booked my pitch!)
>>
>> I've not booked mine but I'm sure there will be space. I'll look for
>> the BoB Yak and see what I can find. I might take a Saltire to hang on
>> the tent (cheap Argos Pro 1 green thingy). I'll be on a red and rusting
>> Schwinn MTB with weather symbols on the tyres and blue bar ends.
>> Probably a Lampre (Blue/fuschia) cloth cap.
>>
>> I'm tempted by the RK rides but i will have done a significant portion
>> of my yearly mileage the previous two days so will probably chill out
>> around the exhibits and watch the racing/crash a few recumbents.
>>
>> ..d
>>
>
> I am booked on the campsite. I have a turquise VauDe MkII, with the poles
> on the outside. My bike is a blue Raleigh Tourer. Not sure about the RK
> rides yet. I might give them a miss and do my own thing to a cafe or do
> one of the shorter rides.

Silver Dawes Discovery 601 with butterfly bars. It will be looking travel
soiled like its rider!
--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.

 

[David E. Belcher]

Sam Salt wrote:

> Yes in my experience "they " do.
>
> I do not know exactly what some people want out of the Rally.As far as I
> am concerned it is all there for the taking.A bit of grass-track
> racing

I have heard rumblings of a cyclo-cross being staged in some years as a
demo event or suchlike - anyone know any more about this?

> I am always pleased that no bright spark has ever suggested a beer-tent
> as I think that would alter the atmosphere dramatically.

York has plenty of good pubs within reach, though beer tent might be
handy - it could even be sponsored by York Brewery to give them a bit
of extra publicity (just as long as John Smith's Extra Bland isn't
involved [1]).

David Belcher

[1] Hard to believe they are also responsible for the vastly superior
Magnet, sadly nigh-on unobtainable outside of Yorkshire. And I have to
admit that the new John Smith's TV ad (with the show-off mobile phone
owner) makes me smile.

 

[Blonde]

Black stealth (steel) bike with black mudguards, black rack and silver
bar end shifters.

 

[John B]

"David E. Belcher" wrote:

> Sam Salt wrote:
>
> > I am always pleased that no bright spark has ever suggested a beer-tent
> > as I think that would alter the atmosphere dramatically.
>
> York has plenty of good pubs within reach, though beer tent might be
> handy - it could even be sponsored by York Brewery to give them a bit
> of extra publicity (just as long as John Smith's Extra Bland isn't
> involved).
>

IMO a real-ale beer tent would be a most welcome addition, particularly in
the evening, providing an on-site location where friends can meet, socialise
and chat over a pint.
York's better pubs on a Friday and Saturday can be *very* crowded - at least
they were a couple of years back and I doubt they have changed.

John B

 

[Carol Hague]

MSeries <[email protected]> wrote:

> Sam Salt wrote:
> > As the York Rally approaches,why is it that every year people seem to
> > say it is **** and it's days are numbered ?

> i first went to York Rally in the late 80s then been every year since
> 1994. I can't say I have noticed much change.

I think it changed drastically with the Millenium debacle. There seemed
to be a shift in the organisational philosophy, such that from being an
event organised by cyclists for cyclists, it has become a means to make
money for the CTC.

>I know what to expect and
> have not been dissappointed. I would prefer not to pay for my programme
> but why not, someone has to pay to produce it. I like the rally for the
> trade show and meeting other cyclists, the latter being the rallys
> original raison d'etre. Some folk are never happy, what specifically
> are there gripes ? Wha is now not there that used to be ?

Many of the smaller traders have been priced out of the trade tents - we
certainly can't afford to exhibit there. Fewer and fewer cycle campers
seem to go each year (although that's probably more the train companys'
faults). But mainly the *feel* of the event has changed. The atmosphere
just isn't as pleasant somehow.


--
Carol
Some are born weird, some achieve weirdness, and others
feed giraffes to the ceiling.
- Richard Robinson on uk.rec.sheds.

 

[[email protected]]

Carol Hague wrote:
>
> I think it changed drastically with the Millenium debacle. There seemed
> to be a shift in the organisational philosophy, such that from being an
> event organised by cyclists for cyclists, it has become a means to make
> money for the CTC.
>

As far as I am aware, rather than being a 'means to make money for the
CTC' the rally struggles to cover it's ever-rising costs, especially
when so many people resent even having to buy a program in order to get
into the exhibition area!

With regards the 'Millennium debacle' ('The national cycling
festival'), this was a 'one off' (officially it wasn't even called
'York Rally" that year) directed by The Bicycle Association although
with the support of CTC headquarters. Much that was done in 2000 ran
counter to what the usual organising team wanted and by 2001 it was
back to 'business as usual'.

The 'Millennium debacle' could have been an outstanding success but for
one thing, 'The Great British public' just aren't very interested in
cycling, no matter how professionally it is presented to them. You can
lead a horse to water and all that!

 

[Carol Hague]

<[email protected]> wrote:

> Carol Hague wrote:
> >
> > I think it changed drastically with the Millenium debacle. There seemed
> > to be a shift in the organisational philosophy, such that from being an
> > event organised by cyclists for cyclists, it has become a means to make
> > money for the CTC.
> >
>
> As far as I am aware, rather than being a 'means to make money for the
> CTC' the rally struggles to cover it's ever-rising costs,

You may well be right, but that's the *impression* I get - that they're
doing it for money rather than because they want to. It may well be a
wrong impression, but it's there.

> especially
> when so many people resent even having to buy a program in order to get
> into the exhibition area!

I don't resent that. I do miss the informality of the older Rallys
though.

>
> With regards the 'Millennium debacle' ('The national cycling
> festival'), this was a 'one off' (officially it wasn't even called
> 'York Rally" that year) directed by The Bicycle Association although
> with the support of CTC headquarters. Much that was done in 2000 ran
> counter to what the usual organising team wanted and by 2001 it was
> back to 'business as usual'.

Again you're probably right, BUT it was held at the time and place that
the York Rally is traditionally held, with most of the same things going
on, so it's hardly surprising if people fail to make the distinction. I
certainly wasn't aware of it at the time and I suspect a lot of other
people weren't either. We seriously considered not going the following
year as a result of our experiences in 2000.

I'd also dispute that it was "business as usual" the following year -
the usual organisers may not have approved of the 2000 crowd, but they
seemed to me to pick up quite a lot of their ideas and run with them.
The atmosphere of the Rally hasn't been the same since IMO.

--
Carol
Some are born weird, some achieve weirdness, and others
feed giraffes to the ceiling.
- Richard Robinson on uk.rec.sheds.