Your 2010/current power profile metrics...

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by DancenMacabre, Mar 21, 2010.

  1. quenya

    quenya New Member

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    Don't worry nobody really cares where you got your chart. I have, according to trwpm 2nd ed, high cat 2/low cat 1 FTP and 5 min power, along with cat 4, minute and 5 sec numbers. That maybe averages out to a strong 3. Perhaps I can TT with the cat1/2s if I focus on lowering CdA. But, if I'm in the pack on the finishing straight, even with decent position I don't podium against nor cal 4s let alone 1s Who are these cat 1s that have never won a race? I find it hard to believe that there are "a lot" of them. Can you name a few dozen registered USCF cat 1 roadies who haven't won a single race?
     


  2. ranger11a

    ranger11a New Member

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    Max: 1060
    5s: 868
    1Min: 369
    5Min: 340
    20Min: 267
    60Min: 221

    78KG/36Years Old/CAT 5

    Just started working with Power, and I am having a blast learning so much...Seeing a lot of improvements too!
     
  3. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    The 2 guys I used to ride with had not won a single race when they became eligible to upgrade to Cat1. That is the best I can do for you. I suspect the USCF could get that answer for you. (Are there about 1000 Cat1 racers? A "few dozen" seems like more than "a lot.")

    ---

    While you might not care where I got my chart, there seems to be not much difference between what the two charts claim. There is a lot of discussion on the internet about the charts. Some people think that any FTP above 6 is questionable. Beyond that many people make claims that there should be large gaps between Cat3 and Cat2 and also between Cat1 and Pro and neither chart indicates a gap.

    But 300w on one chart and 330 on the other is pretty within much measurement and sampling error and chart making simplifications..

    I could suggest that you read training peaks article that indicates what your disparate power numbers mean and how to train to make them more normal, but I don't know what your goals are so I will not make that suggestion.

    You might review the training peaks article that discusses tactics relative to power numbers. Your power numbers will get you to Cat1 (if that is what you want), You seem to have enough power to get upgrade points. Not enough to win, but enough to get points. You just need a plan. But again I don't know what your goals are. But if you do get to Cat1, perhaps you could do it without a win.

    I only know how to get people who want to be Cat1 reach that goal. I have no idea how to get people who don't want to reach that goal get there.

    ---

    58 out of the last 60 days I have put in 50+ miles. Feels like time to get it up to 62 miles a day. Retirement is so nice. Lots of time. Lots of money.

    A fellow in tennis shoes and toe clips passed me on a climb today. I was only doing 250w. He was cooked at the top. I just continued on for the last 20 miles of my ride.
     
  4. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    I just make the comment: that many people do a 20 minute test and multiply by .95 to get their 60 minute number.

    267*.95 = 253.

    I guess you numbers show that some people may be overestimating their FTP. might even be training to the wrong numbers.

    ---

    I am glad you are having fun.
     
    bubsy likes this.
  5. lanierb

    lanierb New Member

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by An old Guy .
    I just make the comment: that many people do a 20 minute test and multiply by .95 to get their 60 minute number.

    267*.95 = 253.

    I guess you numbers show that some people may be overestimating their FTP. might even be training to the wrong numbers.


    Many people may do what you say, but the protocol actually calls for doing an all out 5-minute test first (to empty your AC), then resting 5 minutes, followed by 20 mins all out. If you do that you get a lower (and better) FTP estimate than you get by cherry picking your best 20 mins and multiplying by .95.
     
  6. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    Regardless of the protocol, I disagree with the claim that one can produce an accurate FTP number (60 minute power output) by doing a 20 minute test.

    The reason for the 20 minute test is that most people (including myself now) are not motivated enough to do a 60 minute test.

    ---

    If you want to believe that the 20 minute test is an accurate predictor of 1 hour power, a 1 hour test is also an accurate predictor of 3 hour power by the same 95% factor.

    You have your 20 minute power so you can predict your 1 hour power and then predict your 3 hour power. So do a 3 hour test. Don't worry about emptying out your tank first. Just do the 3 hour test. That is 90% of your 20 minute power for 3 hours.

    I think that a 20 minute test is much different than a 3 hour test. Doing a 3 hour test might cause you to doubt the accuracy of using a 20 minute test to predict 60 minute power.
     
  7. smaryka

    smaryka Member

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    Ok old guy, back to the nursing home, enough trolling on this thread now, be a good boy...

     
  8. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    I try to not be a troll. Simply trying to point out errors people who train might run into.

    ---

    I kicked my daily mileage up from 50+ to 62+ this weekend. 50 miles without food is not too bad. 62 without food is a bit much. And the extra time puts me on the road with too many faster riders - way to many chases after I give up a minute at a red light (fast guys seem to ignore them). Maybe things will slow up a bit during the week.

    A nap would feel good now.
     
  9. ranger11a

    ranger11a New Member

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    The numbers that I posted are from my power profile on Training Peaks. I have not specifically tested my power at 20 minutes. Therefore the 20 minute and 60 minute power outputs are lower than what I could produce if I was doing a test at those times. I have just started using power so my data is limited.

    I have done two 8 minute max efforts to determine my FTP and power ranges for training using the Carmichael Training Systems power ranges. Those power ranges and prescribed workouts are really increasing my fitness.
     
  10. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    An 8min MP test is going to be heavily influenced by your anaerobic work capacity (AWC) and is not going to be a very good test for predicting your FTP (60min MP). Of course, it doesn't really matter if you are using an FTP estimate only for the purpose of setting workout targets. If you have over-estimated your FTP, then you will not be able to complete your longer-duration L4 efforts (e.g., 20mins). If you have under-estimated your FTP, then your longer-duration L4 efforts will feel too easy. So, it will work itself out. But, if you are estimating your FTP for an important event (e.g., 40K ITT) then you run a significant risk of starting too hard (or too easy). For an important event, it is best to estimate your MP from a max effort at a similar duration.
     
  11. ranger11a

    ranger11a New Member

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    Thanks for the reply. Makes sense to me and the estimate is based on the need to provide training ranges for different efforts and targeting different energy systems. I have done 20 minute fit tests before, but it was before I had power and I was training with HR exclusively. I still saw gains, but I have seen better results with using power.
     
  12. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Try changing your Depends while you're at it. Somehow, the effluent is spilling out onto the internet.
     
  13. An old Guy

    An old Guy Member

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    I certainly hope you find what you are looking for. The sooner the better.
     
  14. Sworksjunkie

    Sworksjunkie New Member

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    First post, so this is my stats as of my last race.

    5s' 1027w
    1min' 480w
    5min' 335w
    20min' 296w

    My main goal for 2012 is to get CP20 to 320w. That will bring it to 5w/kg.

    I'm 140lbs, and race S4 (equivalent to USA's cat 5). It was my first year racing. I raced a few cat 4 stage races in the US this year and placed roughly MOP. I don't know if this is because of the talent level at those events, or whether its cat 4 in general.
     
  15. awilki01

    awilki01 New Member

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    I was worried about this and possibly overestimating my FTP. So, I went out and did a 1 hour time trial and my FTP was dead on target as I had calculated with a 20 minute test. It seems to work for me, but I know everyone is different.

    I tell you what, you guys are scaring me with your numbers. I started riding about a year ago and my FTP is 228 watts. I'm going to have to work hard before I road race. I will probably remain Cat 5 and just do time trials the next year or so until I hit masters age of 40. Then, when I know I have the power numbers for Cat 3 or 4, I'll go enter some Cat 5 races.
     
  16. danfoz

    danfoz Well-Known Member

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    Awilki, do yourself a favor and upgrade to the 4's after your 10 starts even if you don't get great results in the 5's.

    It's not that much harder, it is quite a bit safer. And Cat5 is also for new racers looking to get there feet wet, after awhile it's like when Kramer took up karate classes... with the 12 year olds. There was a guy last season in the 5's winning almost every race. I can't see any satisfaction coming from that. If you stay in the small pond, you'll stay a small little fishy.

    I don't know about your part of the country, but here in NYC many folks would rather race with the 3's than the Masters. Yes they are that tough, and timing laps in the PP races, it's easily confirmed just as fast. I'm 43 and do better with my minimal training in the 4's than the Masters.
     
  17. doctorold

    doctorold Member

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    Are y'all speaking english?
     
  18. slowfoot

    slowfoot New Member

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    yeah i thought when i started racing in the older masters at cat 5 i would be competitive.

    there are fewer riders but for the most part they are the lower cat capable, leftover college riders, super fit , one day license, ringers.

    the winners' times would be strong at cat 3.

    oh well , it's not about winning right?

    dave
     
  19. Mark 86

    Mark 86 New Member

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    I'm 49 and just finished my first full year of racing(I raced 5 times last year) and went from a Cat 5 to a Cat 3. The numbers I know are below:

    5s:1350w
    1m:700w
    5m:?
    20m:380w
    60m:?

    I'm 175-180lbs and 6'1". I won 5 out of 15 races this year and only finished out of the top 5 when I crashed, flatted, or made a mistake(missed a break). I'm now addicted to the sport and wish I had started 30 years ago. I can't wait for next season(at age 50) so that I can race with faster riders. See you guys out there!
     
  20. danfoz

    danfoz Well-Known Member

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    @Mark - that is some serious 20 minute power! No wonder you made the jump so quick. The poor sods in your first Cat5 race must have gone home contemplating their own racing careers /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

    Curious, what is your weekly mileage like?
     
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