Your opinion please...

[Gonzo21]

Just made these up in response to my total lack of ability to do out of the saddle efforts. Tell me what you think.

1) To improve the ability to not loose the wheel in front (in a race) when the pace suddenly accelerates sharply(that's what lost it for me when I raced the other day);
On a busy road, bring the HR up to 80-85% max HR to simulate a race. Every time a ...(eg red car or lorry) passes you you try to catch up with it. Slow back a bit after ...(eg another red car has passed).
So you will suddenly have to increase speed, and then can relax for periods. My attempt at simulating sudden surges from the pack and then the pace slowing down. I reckon 20mins of this, repeated a couple of times with full recovery between.

2)To improve the ability to manage pain when doing out of the saddle efforts;
Up a long drag, bring the HR up to 85%max HR, notice your speed. Sprint for 5 secs as if chasing a wheel, then sit down. Keep at a pace greater than the speed before.

2b)To improve your ability to sprint when exausted, ie. the finish line;
Up a long drag, build up the pace from the bottom so that you are as fast as you can while sitting just near the top. Then sprint for 10 secs as fast as you can. Recover fully after this effort.

Both of the 2s are designed to hurt a lot and I have no flat country around me...

 

[scottmoroschan]

Just as tip concerning point number one. If I were you I would kep off the busy roads.

Scott

 

[Gonzo21]

Why keep off busy roads? They are straight and very wide roads. Just so long as I ride sensibly there is no problem.

 

[Fixey]

my $0.02.....stay in your sadle....only time my big butt gets air is on a hill or to streatch.

 

[Gonzo21]

I was out racing on Sunday and just coundn't jump between the pack and the decisive break which is why I didn't do very well. Usually I stay in the saddle but cannot accelerate sharply enough if I do hence the need for the ability to jump.

 

[wardie2000]

Hi,

which race were you doing?

 

[Gonzo21]

South circuit leauge 3: castle combe.

 

[zaskar]

Originally posted by Fixey
my $0.02.....stay in your sadle....only time my big butt gets air is on a hill or to streatch.

You must not race then, because out of saddle sprinting to catch a break is what you have to do or get dropped.

 

[zaskar]

gonzo, sounds ok to me i do my sprinting intervals chasing semi trucks, somtimes i draft there trailer up to 50 mph, works great.

 

[Fixey]

Originally posted by zaskar
You must not race then, because out of saddle sprinting to catch a break is what you have to do or get dropped.

LMAO, um....no. I dont even get out of my seat to wind up in a track sprint. It is generally counter productive. I would chastise any of my riders that chased a gap out of the seat....only guys I would accept it from is a true road sprinter in the last dash. If you feel the need to jump out of your seat every time you need to accelerate I would suggest rethinking the gears you use.

 

[zaskar]

Originally posted by Fixey
LMAO, um....no. I dont even get out of my seat to wind up in a track sprint. It is generally counter productive. I would chastise any of my riders that chased a gap out of the seat....only guys I would accept it from is a true road sprinter in the last dash. If you feel the need to jump out of your seat every time you need to accelerate I would suggest rethinking the gears you use.

Interesting i guess the pros are counter productive also, every pro race i have seen there is most always an out of saddle attack, Lance stands alot and hes not losing the TDF. to simply accelerate no need to get out of saddle but to counter an attack or attack most always is out of saddle for a short period.

 

[Gonzo21]

So go on then someone up at the front decides to attack as they are coming out of a sharp double bend, then people in front are breaking. As soon as you get out of the corner you need to sprint to get with the breakaway. I know I shouldn't be behind other people but I wasn't expecting the break as early as it happened.

Plus what about when you need to do a break away yourself? Far easier if you can jump.

 

[VeloFlash]

Originally posted by zaskar
Interesting i guess the pros are counter productive also, every pro race i have seen there is most always an out of saddle attack, Lance stands alot and hes not losing the TDF. to simply accelerate no need to get out of saddle but to counter an attack or attack most always is out of saddle for a short period.

I'm with Fixey here. There is no need to always get out of the saddle to accelerate.

Out of the saddle work on a bike is because -

1. You have carried on cycling through and past your formative years. Kids will always get out of the saddle to accelerate because of their lack of strength/power. Old habits die hard.

2. Pro riders with an over abundance of slow twitch muscles have to use the additional standing weight to accelerate at the expense of absorbing more energy. Most pros are endurance riders.

3. Out of the saddle accelerations sometimes are necessary to preserve/stretch/rest muscles that have been hard at it during a long race.

The fastest sprinters are track sprinters. Do you see them out of the saddle during fast accelerations or during a sprint?

 

[Gonzo21]

But I am young, I'm 19 and have no explosive power. Hence the need to develop it.

Right, how about if I were to change it so that I say accelerate whilst staying in the saddle for the intervals?

 

[wardie2000]

Originally posted by Gonzo21
South circuit leauge 3: castle combe.

Can't stand that circuit, the wind on the home straight kills me every time, but never mind! it gets the license points. how have you been doing?
What group have you been riding with?

 

[Gonzo21]

I've only raced twice and finished 17/24 that time (the breakaway was 16 strong!) and the previous time I DNF 'cause my chain came off. Hence I'm only cat 4, but I have only been propper road riding since about a year ago.

 

[Fixey]

to simply accelerate no need to get out of saddle but to counter an attack or attack most always is out of saddle for a short period. [/B]

Dont agree with you but I will give you the attack part. I am a track sprinter, I can count my total race attacks in the last 20 years on one hand so when I reflect, your right, most roadies tend to get out of thier seat to attack. Ask your self this though, do you know the actual cost/benefit for winding up out of the seat? IE the slight leverage and weight input advantage vs the sudden loss of momentum, changes to lactate lvl caused by sudden violent acceleration, increased energy useage....IMO people jump out of the saddle to readily...more out of panic then good sense.

 

[edd]

Originally posted by VeloFlash
I'm with Fixey here. There is no need to always get out of the saddle to accelerate.

Out of the saddle work on a bike is because -

1. You have carried on cycling through and past your formative years. Kids will always get out of the saddle to accelerate because of their lack of strength/power. Old habits die hard.

2. Pro riders with an over abundance of slow twitch muscles have to use the additional standing weight to accelerate at the expense of absorbing more energy. Most pros are endurance riders.

3. Out of the saddle accelerations sometimes are necessary to preserve/stretch/rest muscles that have been hard at it during a long race.

The fastest sprinters are track sprinters. Do you see them out of the saddle during fast accelerations or during a sprint?

good points.. but there are a lot of subtilties.

A short burst of acceleration is best done out of the saddle or the pro road cyclist simply would not do them.

A trained track sprinter knows what he needs to achieve and that he can put on more speed in the saddle.

There are a multitude of differing speed, terrain, and "catch the moment" environments that effect road cycling. The injection of one's body weight into an acceleration is one of many cycling techniques that have their place.

Want to win races ? Get a coach !

 

[zaskar]

Originally posted by VeloFlash
I'm with Fixey here. There is no need to always get out of the saddle to accelerate.

Out of the saddle work on a bike is because -

1. You have carried on cycling through and past your formative years. Kids will always get out of the saddle to accelerate because of their lack of strength/power. Old habits die hard.

Im far from a kid im 37 140lbs a strong rider who dominates local A+ group rides, matching mountain TT times of elite riders here and finish the few races ive done very well, and not intimidated by any rider or situation i can hold my own and damn i just got a coach im a dangerous mofo.

2. Pro riders with an over abundance of slow twitch muscles have to use the additional standing weight to accelerate at the expense of absorbing more energy. Most pros are endurance riders.

So only pro riders have this and should do this?? now that sounds about FS!

 

[edd]

So in summary

.... are a couple of you going to meet on a corner and punch it out or what ?

I've seen people jump out of the saddle for maybe three strokes, then sit right back down again. Are they confused or do they just want to be on both sides of this debate ?