Zabel admits doping

[helmutRoole2]

I must say HR, you seem strangely obsessed with projecting homoerotic fantasies on others! Why would that be?

Are you trying to out me, Serf? I have but one homoerotic fantasy and I think I've made it clear who that involves...

Yes, Little Tommy D! Have you ever noticed that the capital D at the end of Little Tommy D's name looks like a turtle laying on it's side? How cute!

 

[limerickman]

Lemond, the last clean winner.

I agree wiith that - Greg was clean.

 

[Bro Deal]

I agree wiith that - Greg was clean.

I am not sure about that, but I think that Lemond was the last winner who could have been clean. As Bugno, Chiapucci, and Indurain started using EPO in the '90 to '91 time frame, there was no chance for a clean TdF competitor.

 

[limerickman]

there was no chance for a clean TdF competitor.

.............which is the most annoying part of all of this. Sadly.

 

[El Loto]

I better get training, you never know there might be a few vacancies this Summer. I'll stick to the orange juice though.

Anyway Riis won't confess surely. He's a stubborn *******. If he would confess he'd wait until the Landis affair is done and dusted so he doesn't have to suffer the ignominy of being the first rider to be stripped of his TdF title.

 

[Serafino]

Surely, many Telekom riders have the dirt on Riis. I assume that if he comes out with the "they were dirty but I was clean" story they might very well turn on him.

The cards are starting to fall into place ...

 

[DiabloScott]

I don't know, that thats phrase means, because I'm Ukrainian, but I'm understand it from Serafino's post. I can say only that: I started support Erik in 2000 and now I create his Russian Languge Fan-Club and Fan-Site http://ru-zabel.org
Maybe, it says all

Excuse me please for my bad english

Welcome and don't mind the insults in here... it's all part of the fun.

Ukraine, eh? Maybe you can clear up this Gonchar/Honchar confusion... my take on it is that the Ukranians translated a Russian name (Gonchar) into a Ukranian name that has a letter Russian doesn't have (GHonchar with the "ghe" with the hash mark), not just a transliteration, am I right?

Российский фан-клуб Эрика Цабеля
Russian fan club Erika Zabelya (I guess his name gets declinated in Russian).

 

[Andrija]

Are you trying to out me, Serf? I have but one homoerotic fantasy and I think I've made it clear who that involves...

Yes, Little Tommy D! Have you ever noticed that the capital D at the end of Little Tommy D's name looks like a turtle laying on it's side? How cute!

You're like you've run out from Freud's book.

 

[lwedge]

I never inhaled!

Hey Bill,,,,, What's wrong with this Cigar?


lw

 

[whiteboytrash]

Surely, many Telekom riders have the dirt on Riis. I assume that if he comes out with the "they were dirty but I was clean" story they might very well turn on him.

The cards are starting to fall into place ...

Riis has actually never denied that he doped.... he has always been evasive on the question saying he didn't want to talk of the past....... I don't see what the big deal is.... if you wanted win the Tour from 91 onwards you had to use EPO, period. There was no other way. Its a hard line to punish Riis for what every other rider including Indurain was doing. Why are we all acting so surprised ? Was it not obvious ?

.....oh and where did Riis get his EPO usage program from ? You guessed it... Dr. F.

 

[Bro Deal]

Riis has actually never denied that he doped.... he has always been evasive on the question saying he didn't want to talk of the past....... I don't see what the big deal is.... if you wanted win the Tour from 91 onwards you had to use EPO, period. There was no other way. Its a hard line to punish Riis for what every other rider including Indurain was doing. Why are we all acting so surprised ? Was it not obvious ?

I just want one of these guys to actually say that. Come right out and say everyone was doing to and if you didn't your career was over and there was no way to race without it. Instead it's always couched in the language of "making a mistake" or "yielding to temptation" or some other load of B.S.

 

[musette]

If Riis admits to doping now, so many years after the fact - could he technically be striped of his TdF title?

I don't think he is going to do that. He will say that he knew that Basso's improvements were too good to be true, and he feels sorry that he just focused on the results and didn't ask why or how they came about. A self-condemnation for deliberate turning a blind eye on Basso, is my guess.

 

[whiteboytrash]

I just want one of these guys to actually say that. Come right out and say everyone was doing to and if you didn't your career was over and there was no way to race without it. Instead it's always couched in the language of "making a mistake" or "yielding to temptation" or some other load of B.S.

Agreed. However they have to protect themselves which I see as fair enough... they also can't say everyone was doing it as there is no proof unless you have a photo of a guy plunging a needle into his arm along with a DNA sample...... its like cocaine.... when you use it yourself you start to see all the other people that are using it... not because you see them snorting but you see the signs... teeth grinding, fast talking etc. - takes one to know one.... I think after OP and the admissions in the last week we can safely say 90% if not more has been on EPO since 1990. period.

 

[cyclingheroes]

I just want one of these guys to actually say that. Come right out and say everyone was doing to and if you didn't your career was over and there was no way to race without it. Instead it's always couched in the language of "making a mistake" or "yielding to temptation" or some other load of B.S.

Theo de Rooi thinks that Zabel can stay at Milram and wants the discussions about the nineties to end. he is also glad that TM stays as a sponsor and says we have to make a new and clean beginning:

http://www.telesport.nl/wielersport/1657526/De_Rooij_blij_met_besluit_T-Mobile.html

He also said:

Ik ben en blijf optimistisch. Oplossen kunnen we het dopingprobleem niet, maar we kunnen het wel beheersbaar maken.”

I am and will stay optimistic. We can't solve the doping problem but we can control it.

 

[musette]

This tainting of the innocent using what other cyclists do is very devious and destructive.

 

[whiteboytrash]

If Riis admits to doping now, so many years after the fact - could he technically be striped of his TdF title?

I don't think he is going to do that. He will say that he knew that Basso's improvements were too good to be true, and he feels sorry that he just focused on the results and didn't ask why or how they came about. A self-condemnation for deliberate turning a blind eye on Basso, is my guess.

I can hardly see Indurain coming out asking for his 6th TDF title back..... that would be laughable !

btw/ Basso ? But he looked so good in DC blue.... no ?

 

[limerickman]

Agreed. However they have to protect themselves which I see as fair enough... they also can't say everyone was doing it as there is no proof unless you have a photo of a guy plunging a needle into his arm along with a DNA sample...... its like cocaine.... when you use it yourself you start to see all the other people that are using it... not because you see them snorting but you see the signs... teeth grinding, fast talking etc. - takes one to know one.... I think after OP and the admissions in the last week we can safely say 90% if not more has been on EPO since 1990. period.

OK.

So does this alter your attitude to the professional ranks?

Personally, I followed and participated in the sport - because it was tougher than any other sport and results came from ability/self sacrifice/sheer talent.
Naive perhaps.

With all of this - I have to say I'm becoming even less inclined to follow this sport at the professional level.

 

[whiteboytrash]

OK.

So does this alter your attitude to the professional ranks?

Personally, I followed and participated in the sport - because it was tougher than any other sport and results came from ability/self sacrifice/sheer talent.
Naive perhaps.

With all of this - I have to say I'm becoming even less inclined to follow this sport at the professional level.

Absolutely it changes everything for me.... I'm taking little interest other than a passing view of the results sheets of the Giro... whereas before I would record every stage and watch it in detail.... I think the sport is stupid now not so much for the rampant drug use but the ******** and the lies that go with it.... these guys have very little backbone... they are full of **** and its a complete turn off and not a trait I admire in people..... if I was 16 would I want to get in cycling ? Hell no..... once everyone expunges there demons and Landis gets the fark out of the sport maybe we can get back to somewhere which brings some respect back to the sport... like I said my interest has now dwindle to a passing interest... I actually find the entire thing a joke now, I laugh at it and think who next.... ?

 

[wolfix]

The sport is as it was in the 70's. Different drugs, different riders, but still the dope. The dope was prevalent in the lower ranks of US cycling here in no man's land. It wasn't even that big a dea

The Lemond was clean story gets a little hard to swallow when it was hinted by responsible journalists that Hinault was riding with speed, and we know that Fignon was. Hinault's ankle injury that plagued him later in his career was the same injury that supposedly amphetimine[?] users developed. And yet Greg beat them......... At a young age Greg was able to ride as hard as Hinault in his prime? The Lemond story of him winning every race he was in America is simply not true. We had other juniors who was just as strong for many years and yet Greg all of a sudden became unbeatable. I am not sure if Greg was ever national junior champ or not. He might have been one year. [The same exact story as Armstrong] "I won everything, I was unbeatable."
It's impossible to believe Armstrong could beat doping European riders like JU/Pantani/ Basso, etc..., but it's possible to believe Lemond could beat the dopers in his day??? Lemond was beating guys like Knetteman, Kuiper, S Kelly, and Fignon. All who were dopers. [Kelly was never convicted though. ]
Yes, he also handed Delgado a loss. Delgado was never convicted of it, but didn't he test positive during a TDF and was given a free ride?
Yet, Lemond could beat them. 2 World Championships and 3 TDF's?
The spin from Lemond is as great as the spin from Landis. Lemond needs to work his personal issues out with his family, not aggressively attack every rider in America.
Just remember...... Never call Greg and think he is your friend. He will record it.

 

[Frigo's Luggage]

..But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF

Limerickman appears to becoming the cynic and skeptic which Armstrong railed against. Actually, looking at the final GC results from the day he gave his bizarre farewell speach, one could conclude that the skeptics and cynics were correct:
1 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 86.15.02 (41.654 km/h)
2 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 4.40
3 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 6.21
4 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Caisse d'Epargne 9.59
5 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 11.01
6 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Gerolsteiner 11.21
7 Michael Rasmussen (Den) Rabobank 11.33
8 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 11.55
9 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 12.44
10 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 16.04
11 Christophe Moreau (Fra) Credit Agricole 16.26
12 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel 19.02
13 Eddy Mazzoleni (Ita) Lampre-Caffita 21.06
14 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 23.40
15 Haimar Zubeldia (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 23.43
16 Jörg Jaksche (Ger) Liberty Seguros-Würth 24.07
17 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 24.08
18 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) T-Mobile Team 27.45
19 Andrei Kashechkin (Kaz) Credit Agricole 28.04
20 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita) T-MobThat is at least 35% of the top 20 that were dirty. What are the chances that some of the others were doped as well.

No wonder the sponsors are running away.

The cyclists and the teams are ruining the sport.

Anybody that says there is not a problem in cycling is a moron.

Anybody that says cycling is doing a better job than other sports misses the point. This sport is dying because of this problem. I don't care what other sports do or whether they die. I care about cycling and want to see this stop.

I don't care if Armstrong doped (which the evidence strongly suggests that he did). Armstrong's problem is that he contributes to the omerta by chasing down Simeonni, Bassons, etc. I don't believe in Armstrong's miracles.

Great for Zabel. He could have denied things until the bitter end and hoped that this blew over. Instead he jeopardized his career and future by telling the truth. I admire him. Instead of fawning over Armstrong, we should be praising the people that were brave enough to break the omerta. These people are the real heros:

Kimmedge
Bassons
Simeoni
Simoni
Andreu
Jesper Skibby (best name in the history of any sport)
DeCaneo
Spinelli
Zabel
Udo Bolts
Aldag

If Riis comes clean without trying to do a Basso weasel, I will add him to the list.

OK.

So does this alter your attitude to the professional ranks?

Personally, I followed and participated in the sport - because it was tougher than any other sport and results came from ability/self sacrifice/sheer talent.
Naive perhaps.

With all of this - I have to say I'm becoming even less inclined to follow this sport at the professional level.