ZIPP 404 or Mavic Carbone SSC????????

[Halflin]

Can anyone direct me to a Zipp 404 review? I can't seem to find out if the 2004's are better then the 2003's. I'm deciding on the two. I've read and talked to peeps about the Carbone so what I know that it's a super sturdy wheel and once you hit about 22-23 mph they really roll, feels like "you've got another gear" is the popular phrase with the SSC's but the weight might be an issue with me. I'm currently on a 2003 Giant Composite w/ Campi Eurus wheels. The only thing I can find out about the ZIPP's is that they are lighter. What about durability? I know that previous year model's have had some issues. What do you guys think?


Thanks!
Half

 

[drewjc]

what are u doing with the eurus'? maybe u could hand them off for a good price?!! i haven't heard a bad thing about them, just wondering why u want a new/diff set of wheels? are the eurus' too heavy or slow or what?

 

[marlon1]

Try the search button...


The Mavic is 2kg and the Zipp404 1275g.

The Mavic isn't made from carbon fiber

The rim depth isn't the same, Zipp 404-> 58mm and Mavic 50mm. that makes the Zipp more aero.

Mavic has 16/20 spokes and Zipp 18/24 spokes. That makes the Zipp stronger and the Mavic a bit more aero. The Zipp rim is a bit more flex then the Mavic.

The Zipp has carbon hubs.

So I think Zipp is much better...



If you buy a $1200 wheel, always buy the TUBULAR.

And always buy a cheap pair of wheels ($100-$200 or something) for training.





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And what about the Campangolo Bora G3

 

[gregk]

Originally posted by marlon1
Try the search button...


The Mavic is 2kg and the Zipp404 1275g.

The Mavic isn't made from carbon fiber

The rim depth isn't the same, Zipp 404-> 58mm and Mavic 50mm. that makes the Zipp more aero.

Mavic has 16/20 spokes and Zipp 18/24 spokes. That makes the Zipp stronger and the Mavic a bit more aero. The Zipp rim is a bit more flex then the Mavic.

The Zipp has carbon hubs.

So I think Zipp is much better...



If you buy a $1200 wheel, always buy the TUBULAR.

And always buy a cheap pair of wheels ($100-$200 or something) for training.





----------

And what about the Campangolo Bora G3

I agree. The Zipps are much better. The SSC's might be a bit more durable, but who doesn't try to avoid potholes on twelve hundred dollar wheels? I have a friend who trains on 303's and he hasn't had any problems.

I'll put it this way- if it was my decision, I'd go for the Zipps. They're simply lighter and more aero.

 

[Bititanio]

Go Reynolds -- great wheels, either the Stratus (deep aero rim) or the Cirrus (shallower rim) are very nice, great cornering due to high lateral stiffness, very durable, very light rims -- even the clinchers are fun to spin up !!!!

 

[gregk]

Originally posted by Bititanio
Go Reynolds -- great wheels, either the Stratus (deep aero rim) or the Cirrus (shallower rim) are very nice, great cornering due to high lateral stiffness, very durable, very light rims -- even the clinchers are fun to spin up !!!!

If he were to go Reynolds, than he should obviously go with the Stratus. Both the Mavics and Zipps are deep aero rims, so it wouldn't make sense to go with the Cirrus. The Reynolds wheels are very nice.

 

[Halflin]

Originally posted by drewjc
what are u doing with the eurus'? maybe u could hand them off for a good price?!! i haven't heard a bad thing about them, just wondering why u want a new/diff set of wheels? are the eurus' too heavy or slow or what?

Well the reason why I'm getting rid of the eurus wheels is that I am going to be doing a bunch of local crits this season and I want some better aero wheels. I live in Little Rock, AR USA and there are a lot of flats where I live but up north there is a very hilly region that I'm going to do a stage race in May and I would use aero wheels for that too prob if they are light enough.

I own a set of 2003 Ksyriums SSC SL also that I am going to keep. They are on my 2003 Casati Dardo training bike. It was a really hard decision but I'm going to stay with my Ksyriums. They are known for their extreme durability and great performance but the eurus are no slouch either.

Well after brewing on this for days now I think I'm about to go order the ZIPPs. Thanks so all of you for your replies and if you still have something to add, please do!

Half

 

[mjw_byrne]

I'm no expert so if any of this is wrong/misleading/plain stupid, apologies in advance. If you're doing crits does that mean a lot of speeding up and slowing down, i.e. a lot of hard braking? If so, the aluminium braking surface on the Mavic wheels might prove easier to live with than the all-carbon Zipp wheels - I've heard that all-carbon wheels aren't great for races that are heavy on braking, but are better-suited to long, flat courses where you don't touch the brakes much.

 

[fushman]

Originally posted by mjw_byrne
I'm no expert so if any of this is wrong/misleading/plain stupid, apologies in advance.

dont be so hard on yourself, thats boudreauxs job

 

[marlon1]

An aluminium braking strip on carbon rims are the worst you can get. The strip will start to get little bumps and get loose after al while.
An example are FIR wheels.

A complete carbon rim with carbon brake area is better. With special brake pads you can brake as good as normal.
You hav to kepe the braking pads clean, and buy new ones when they are old. They are a bit more expensive.


A complete Alu rim is an other option (Mavic SSC Carbone). But your wheels i more then 2kg in that case....




A Reynolds Stratus is also a nice wheel. They have less spokes 16/20 and are lighter (about 100g.). The rim is not so deep as the Zipp 404. (46mm-58mm for Zipp). The tubular version is $1500.

 

[mjw_byrne]

Lol fushman, you're right, but that's my anti-boudreaux disclaimer, I'm getting in there ahead of him. But if I start describing my own posts as "a bargeload of hooey", let me know ASAP and I'll try and snap out of it!

 

[Halflin]

Originally posted by mjw_byrne
I'm no expert so if any of this is wrong/misleading/plain stupid, apologies in advance. If you're doing crits does that mean a lot of speeding up and slowing down, i.e. a lot of hard braking? If so, the aluminium braking surface on the Mavic wheels might prove easier to live with than the all-carbon Zipp wheels - I've heard that all-carbon wheels aren't great for races that are heavy on braking, but are better-suited to long, flat courses where you don't touch the brakes much.

The Zipp 404's do have an aluminium braking surface like the Carbone.. I don't need the expense of all carbon wheels. Just an F.Y.I. so there is no confusion about the 404's. The crit courses I am doing this year mostly have very fast sweeping corners where not much speed is lost cornering.

Thanks!
Half

 

[mjw_byrne]

Cool, ta for the info on the 404's, I didn't know they had the alu strip.

 

[marlon1]

The Zipp 404 TUBULAR has a carbon braking surface!!!


http://www.zipp.com/Wheelsets/404_tubular.html


So that are 3 reasons to take the Tubular version. Better braking, better looks and about 600g. weight difference!!!



The clincher is 1650g and the tubular 1275g. Thats 375g. diffrence. Clincher tires are min. 200gram each + inner tube of min. 60g each. Tubulars are 160g. each (veloflex record, tufo htpi). So thats another 200g.

 

[gregk]

Originally posted by marlon1
The Zipp 404 TUBULAR has a carbon braking surface!!!


http://www.zipp.com/Wheelsets/404_tubular.html


So that are 3 reasons to take the Tubular version. Better braking, better looks and about 600g. weight difference!!!



The clincher is 1650g and the tubular 1275g. Thats 375g. diffrence. Clincher tires are min. 200gram each + inner tube of min. 60g each. Tubulars are 160g. each (veloflex record, tufo htpi). So thats another 200g.

There are lighter tires and tubes out there. You can get the Continental Grand Prix Supersonic tires (155g), Performance Lunar Light Tubes (49g), and Rox Ultralight rim strips (3g).

 

[KingB]

From the Zip website

"You have to slow down sometime, so the 404 wheelset features our exclusive Silica-Ceramic braking surface for responsive deceleration wet or dry. Zipp specified thermally conductive brake pads ensure great braking performance and rim longevity"

It appears to have some sort of material applied to the rim, although its not aluminum. Will this wear off or create any problems as Marlon suggested?

 

[KingB]

I was reading on Cycling News that the newest Cosmic Carbone SSC will be in an all carbon version. They are already on a bunch of pro's bikes. Anyone know if these will ever get to the rest of us?

 

[marlon1]

yes ok. If you want to spend more $$$$.

Here the lightest (and most expensive?) tire and tube combi vs. tubulars:

-Continental Grand Prix Supersonic tires (155g)
-Performance Lunar Light Tubes (49g)
-Rox Ultralight rim strips (3g)

Total: 414g.

TUBULAR:
-Tufo Elite 110g.
-Tubular Glue. about 5g.

Total: 230g.


Difference: 184g.

And with tubulars you have more safety, better road performance, less friction....

And you save 375g. on your rim.


So total on the zipp it saves you 559g.!!!!!!!!

 

[crystal_tears_]

Just pointing out Veloflex Record Kevlar are the lightest clincher tyres on the market at 132 g each.
According to Weight Weenies Tufo's lightest tubulars are the Elite Jet's which weigh 155 g each.

 

[marlon1]

No there is a Tufo 110g. and 120g. which have a 18mm and 21mm width.

check www.tufo.com or something


------------


'exclusive Silica-Ceramic braking surface'
'Will this wear off or create any problems as Marlon suggested?'



No.

the Clincher has an alu strip. this one will wear off or the strip will get little bumps and that sort of things.

the Tubular version has an other surface treadment. That means it's still one with the rim. As far as I know all this type of wheels have a special surface treadment for braking. This won't wear off if you use th especial brake pads (or nog as quick as an alu).





And one questions: why do you want to buy the Mavic Carbone???

This wheel is 2kg, not as aerodynamic, for clincher, not made from carbon!!!! and so on.

If you want something cheaper than the Zipp 404, buy the new HED tubular wheels.