Zipp CSC Team Issue Wheels

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by friedmikey, Feb 24, 2006.

  1. friedmikey

    friedmikey New Member

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    Anybody have experience with the Zipp CSC Team Issue wheels? I just ordered a set today to replace my Ksyrium SSC SLs. I'm soon to be logging a lot of touring miles in Europe, so I figured a more "classic" wheel would be more sensible and serviceable. I won't have much time to test them before I leave, but I'm curious to know what others think of the wheels.

    * By the way, my Ksyrium SLs are for sale, if anybody's interested in a deal. :D
     
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  2. hd reynolds

    hd reynolds New Member

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    Specs show they're quite heavy (1500grams) for boutique wheels. They are also very expensive at $800. For the same price you might want to look into the Ksyrium ES - best hard-earned money I spent on wheels.
     
  3. friedmikey

    friedmikey New Member

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    Trust me, I gave the Ksyrium ES a lot of thought. However, I already have the Ksyrium SLs, so the ES would have been little more than a gratuitous upgrade that is counter to my entire reason for swapping wheels in the first place. That, and Mavic told me the ES is backordered until the second week of March - I need them before the end of this month, so the ES was a non-starter anyway.

    I wanted a standard style wheel rather than a true boutique wheel (i.e., a wheel that uses higher count of j-bend spokes that can easily be replaced if broken). I only had an hour to decide this afternoon - Campy, Easton, and Shimano wheels did not meet my criteria. The only relatively lightweight options I saw were the Zipp CSCs, and the DT Swiss RR 1450, which appears to be a very similar wheel. The Zipps are the same weight as my SLs and only 15 grams heavier than your ES's, so no real weight penalty. Anyway, I'll try to post some comments once I've put some miles on them.
     
  4. mloywhite

    mloywhite New Member

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    I have a set. I've only had them for about 800 miles, but so far I really like them. They are light and tough, with no problems riding on some pretty rough roads. They are much smoother feeling to me than the Campy Sciroccos that I came with my bike. I still use those some, but overall, I am really happy with the Zipps. I did get them for $680, including a team discount from my shop, and for that price, I have no complaints at all. I think you will like them.
     
  5. friedmikey

    friedmikey New Member

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    Well, I've put a couple thousand kilometers on my Zipp CSC wheels now, and I've got to give them an enthusiastic thumbs up so far. They're still as true as the day I pulled them out of the box.

    I bought them as a more durable replacement for my Ksyrium SLs, which were suffering from broken (and expensive!) spokes. I prefer the Zipps to the Ksyriums across the board. They feel faster and smoother. The Zipps also turned out to be a few grams lighter than the SLs.
     
  6. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    small drift........(for a question)

    I was considering the Ksyrium ES for an off the shelf purchase. I was really impressed with the wheel, but I am now waivering between that wheel and a hand built DT Swiss wheel. Not really sure which of these two choices I will go with, but the hand built DT Swiss is a bit less money. Hard decisions to make because I have seen the ES last week in the LBS and I have only read the specs of the DT Swiss.
     
  7. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    First, know that a custom built wheel is only as good as the builder. That said, it's damned easy to find a good builder. DT Swiss wheelset will be lighter than the Ksyriums, be every bit as durable if not more, and will have spokes that can be bought locally if spoke breakage is a concern.

    Go with the DT Swiss wheels.
     
  8. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    Thanks......I'm leaning that direction.
     
  9. kiddoh

    kiddoh New Member

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    I, too, was batty trying to pick a new wheelset a month ago, and I was eyeing Ksyrium SLs and was trying to find a good price for on ebay when I realized those unauthorized sellers of Ksyriums on ebay (don't know how they get them) were close to the authorized LBS price, and the LBS wheels are with warranty. I kept looking. As I scanned classifieds all around, I saw a lightly used pair of Ksyrium ESs on roadbikereview.com and snatched them for $695 (with tools and bags not including shipping). They are beautiful in hand and were offered as described- seller needed cash for a mtn. ride. They ride beautiful, too- I came off of Ritchey WCS wheels and have ridden Open Pros at 145 lb. I felt a bit guilty grabbing the ESs...feeling like the marketing hoopla sucked me in. But the ESs are everything positive riding writers have said- light, strong, stiff and comfortable enough at 145 lb. on my setup- Pinarello Surprise, carbon fork, Record 10, FSA Compact Carbon. But I had been investigating handbuilts while checking Ksyriums, and it's true- you can buy handbuilts that will be as light as Ksyriums, and last longer, so I bought those, too, with the intention of selling one of the two pairs. I contacted Joe Young because his name popped up positively on a forum, and I explained that I was looking for something to rival Ksyriums in weight and performance, and he suggested DT Swiss 240 hubs, DT Swiss RR 1.1 rims and DT spokes. (He gave permission to share our correspondence.) Interestingly, as I recently scanned info about the Team CSC wheel, it seems --others have mentioned-- that these CSC wheels are the same wheels Joe built for me- Swiss made but no "RR 1.1" decal for the team. If so, it's good to see a "team issue" conventional spoke wheel for pros again, anwyay.

    My main concern with Ksyriums (SL or ES) was the spoke factor- what would I do if I was 50 miles from home and a Ksyrium spoke goes? I haven't read a ood answer yet in a forum. With the Joe Young handbuilts that are 28 spokes front and rear, I know I could loosen the brake shoe a bit and still ride with a spoke issue. I don't know if I would have that much wiggle room (literally) if a Ksyrium spoke went. And if I was near a shop, could they fix a Ksyrium rim or even have one of the five dollar spokes on hand?

    Joe Young was clear with communication, and his final bill for his wheels (that he said would rival Ksyriums) without shipping was $733 (DT Swiss 240 hubs, DT Swiss RR 1.1 rims and DT spokes). (They took two weeks to make and a week to ship to Japan, which is where I live and work via Phila., PA., USA.) So not "a whole lot cheaper" than the new Ksyrium SLs or slightly used ESs. Here's Joe's original reply to me about his philosophy and a price quote when I gave him my riding preferences, bike setup and weight...and asked him to compare his wheels to Ksyriums:
    -----
    “You are right about current wheel designs, most are for riders
    From 160 to 180 LBS. Anyone over or under the 160 to 180 LB range is not

    well- provided for in the bicycle Industry. I would recommend the DT 240 SO

    set in 28 spokes I am dedicated to classic wheel designs . Classic design is

    keeping the outside diameter parts (rims, tires, tubes nipples etc) as light

    as possible which is the most meaningful place to save weight . The

    benefits are the classic wheels are more responsive to acceleration, climbing

    and even braking. My experience is this design out performs wheels like

    the Ksyrium and is close to the lightest Zip design with out the expense.

    The problem with most "aero" designs is low spoke count makes a heaver rim

    necessary. Plus wind tunnel test show there is no aero advantage bellow 30

    MPH !

    I think the DT 240S hubs are the best high performance hubs available now. DT uses Swiss made cartridge sealed bearings, have the Hugi drive system that is lighter and more positive than the pawl and spring systems. The DT Flange design helps reduce the dish in the rear wheel. Too much dish or off-set weakens the wheel because of the extreme tension difference between the drive and non drive spokes. All the DT hubs are among the quietest in the industry. www.dtswiss.com



    For spokes I recommend the DT Super Comp triple butted (2.0X1.7X1.8) spokes with alloy nipples. The 2.0 end fits all performance 2.4 mm hub flanges. The 1.7 mm center saves weight and the 1,8 nipple end saves a bit of weight but mainly is stronger as the wall thickness of the nipple is greater. I don't think using aero spokes is worth the expense . Second choice DT Competition 2.0X1.8X2.0 double butted spokes a bit more stable and less expensive but heaver.



    Here is one Quote:

    DT 240S 130 mm road black only 28/28 hole $395.00 pair

    DT RR 1.1 Rims silver or black $140.00 pair

    DT Super Comp spokes with any color alloy nipple $1.25 each

    DT QR skewers $38.00 pair

    Labor $90.00 pair



    I spend extra time making sure all spokes in the wheel are adequately tensioned and brought to with 5 % the same tension. This makes the wheel stay true and tensioned for the life of the rim."
    ----
    Did you notice the labor --or art, which I think wheelbuilding is-- was a scant $90? The other $600 is in the quality parts! I felt really good about contributing to Joe and the art of wheelbuilding in this way. Even though I bought the ESs along with Joe's wheels, I had to see what was up with the ESs, and they are spectacular looking and in performance. BUt I'm not a racer and won't be pulling them out for race day. I do centuries and long distance riding and sometimes the terrain is unfamiliar. The ESs are up for sale because 1) I can't afford to have an $800 pair of backup wheels and 2) Joe's wheels feel as stiff, light and durable as the Ksyrium ESs- like he said. Mainly, I really felt good about the insurance of having traditional spokes on long rides, which was my main concern. I bought black DT rims, black 240 hubs, black spokes- they're certainly not as flashy as the ESs. I sacrificed in the looks department only as performance was the priority. I'm glad I bought both wheelsets, so I could experience both wheels under me and contribute first-hand knowledge to the forum, as well as ride on without having to wonder how one or the other wheelset feels. Now I know.

    Safe riding.

    -Kiddoh
     
  10. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    kiddoh, thanks for the review comments regarding the DT Swiss wheels. I am still leaning toward those exact wheels and you detailed comments really helped.

    I am currently trying to arrange a purchase for a backup bike setup for climbing and the LBS is suggesting an upgrade the stock wheels to American Classic 420 (first he said Ksyrium ES, but I ruled those out on price), but for some reason I keep looking at the hand built DT's. They are both comparable in price and weight and seem like quality products.
     
  11. kiddoh

    kiddoh New Member

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    Sure thing, FR.

    If it's worth anything, check out Joe's bio on his website- quite impressive. Anyway, if you consider the value of Joe's input based on his experience and knowledge, when I asked him, "What can you provide that's light, strong, durable and is race ready?" and he said the DT Swiss setup...out of all the road wheel options. He can build anything, but I'd say he's looking to keep his reputation top notch, and he's looking for parts to do that.

    Perhaps an email to Joe would help with choice. I think he would offer his opinion whether or not you were truly interested in buying from him. That's how he seemed when I peppered him with questions. He never really pressured me to choose. He simply offered info.

    Have you done a thorough search on the Am. Classics? If I remember correctly, there was some tech issue with them or the smaller hub used. Sorry to be vague, but here's a review of the 350s (date unknown)- http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/?id=2002/reviews/amer_classic_350 . (Check out the info about rider weight limit- 180 lbs.)

    Glad to help.


     
  12. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    Thanks again
    I found his web site and will email him when I get closer to ordering the bike.
     
  13. friedmikey

    friedmikey New Member

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    Just a point to clarify - the CSC Team Issue wheels are a bit different from yours. The hubs are Zipp (which are phenomenal), not DT Swiss, and the spokes are DT Swiss Aerolite. Still great wheels, either way.

    And I shared your concern about the Ksyrium spokes. I've broken Ksyrium spokes and the wheel went so far out of true, there's no way I could ride home. Serviceability is important. About a week after my previous post, I crashed, wrecking my rear Zipp rim in the process. As I'm currently abroad, the bike shop near me only had Open Pro rims available. My wheelset doesn't match anymore, but at least I could get the bike back on the road with minimal expense.
     
  14. tcklyde

    tcklyde New Member

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    Zipp Team CSC wheel (Zipp hubs, DT spokes / rim): $800
    Dura Ace hubs, DT spokes / rim: $430
     
  15. kiddoh

    kiddoh New Member

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    Thanks for the clarification. More info is better. And thanks for adding your opinion. I have about 300 km on the DTs, and I love them. No worries about a breakdown.

    Safe riding.
    KDO
     
  16. kiddoh

    kiddoh New Member

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    FriedMikey- the thanks below is for you. Thanks, tcklyde, too.
    -KDO
     
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