Zyflamend: Snakeoil ?

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Amy McCall, May 16, 2004.

  1. Amy McCall

    Amy McCall Guest

    I'd appreciate your thoughts on this article criticising
    Zyflamend...

    CURE ARTHRITIS AND PROSTATE CANCER ONLY $21.95 By
    Roger Mason

    Remember when PC-SPES was touted the world over as a
    scientifically proven cure for prostate cancer? Dr. Jesse
    Stoff even wrote a book called "The Prostate Miracle"
    telling everyone this was the Magic Supplement for prostate
    cancer. The president of Kensington Publishing, who printed
    the book, died soon after following Stoff's advice.

    Your author was the only person in the world who kept
    preaching that this whole thing was a scam for money and
    anyone involved the promotion was either a criminal or, at
    best, a damned fool. Wasn't it Mark Twain who said, "there
    are fools and then there are damned fools"? It was
    discovered that not only was PC-SPES worthless, but was
    adulterated with rat poison (warfarin) and prescription
    drugs and was pulled off the market. I told you so, I told
    you so, I told you so……..

    Now we have Zyflamend which is a mixture of ten different
    herbs. First it was promoted as a natural COX-2 inhibitor
    for arthritis. Now it is being promoted as well for prostate
    cancer. Life Extension sells this, which should tell you
    right there everything you need to know about
    it. They have a "sale price" of $21.99- which is the regular
    retail price! Other net stores have it for half that if
    you want to buy some.

    Somehow people think there is some real magic in putting
    together a lot of herbs in a single product. The "more is
    better" theory. There is not. In fact, the best way of all
    to practice herbology is with single herbs and no mixtures
    at all, much less ones with ten different plants. In my
    files are the last 30 years of published research on both
    arthritis and prostate disease from Chemical Abstracts (the
    scientist's bible). If it ain't in Chem Abs it ain't worth
    knowing basically. This reference is the alpha and omega of
    science. Every six months I go thru the new volumes on 30
    subjects including arthritis and prostate disease.

    At least the people at New Charter are honest enough to
    tell you how much of each herb is in the product. Give
    them credit for that much. Let's take a look at just
    what's in here.

    This is based on two capsules and each bottle has 60
    capsules or a one month supply.

    Holy basil 100 mg with 2% ursolic acid. This gives you 2 mg
    of ursolic acid which is biologically insignificant. Can
    anyone show me one single clinical published study on the
    benefits of holy basil or ursolic acid for either arthritis
    or prostate cancer? Tumeric 100 mg of 7% curcumin. This
    gives you 7 mg of curcumin. Yes, curcumin is a fine
    supplement for both arthritis and prostate conditions. You
    need about 500 mg to do you any good, so you'd need to take
    almost three bottles a day of Zyflamend. Green Tea 100 mg of
    45% polyphenols. This gives you 45 mg of polyphenols. First
    of all ,it is not de-caffeinated. Secondly, you should be
    taking a lot more than 45 mg. Ginger 100 mg with 20% various
    ingredients and 4% zingiberere. This gives you 4 mg of
    zingiberine. Ginger has no benefit for either arthritis or
    prostate. Ginger is a relatively week herb and you have to
    eat several grams of it if used to prevent seasickness or
    calm your stomach. Rosemary leaf 100 mg with 23% active
    ingredients. You get 23 mg. Rosemary is a fine herb but has
    no benefit for either arthritis or prostate. You would have
    to take a lot more than this to get any benefit. More
    rosemary 5:1 extract 50 mg is also added. Polygunum
    cuspidatum root 80 mg of 8% resveratrol. This gives you 6.4
    mg of resveratrol. This is a well known Chinese herb but has
    no benefit for arthritis or prostate and you would have to
    take a lot more than 80 mg to get any benefits. Goldthread
    40 mg (strength not given). Goldthread is a fine herb, but
    has no benefit for arthritis or prostate, and you would have
    to take a lot more than 40 mg to get any benefits. Barberry
    root 40 mg with 6% berberine. You get 2.4 mg of berberine.
    Barberry is a classic herb with many benefits for some
    conditions, but it has no value in arthritis or prostate and
    you would have to take a lot more than 40 mg. Oregano 40 mg
    with 0.8% TPA. You get all of 0.32 mg (that is one third of
    one milligram) of TPA. Oregano has been promoted recently,
    but there are no published studies that show benefits for
    arthritis or prostate. And you would need a lot more than
    one third of one milligram of active ingredient to get any
    value from this. Scutellaria baicalensis ("scute") 20 mg of
    5:1 extract. Scute is a classic Chinese herb known for
    centuries, but not for arthritis or prostate. Taking 20 mg
    is biologically useless as it only equals 100 mg of whole
    herb. Folks, if you feel any of these ten ingredients have
    any value for you, just go out and buy them individually and
    take the amounts you need. You can get sixty capsules of 500
    mg curcumin, for example, for less than $25. Other than
    curcumin and green tea it doesn't seem any of the other
    ingredients have any value for these conditions. What about
    this "study" that has been so prominently promoted? It isn't
    published, it used the brand name and not a generic mix of
    herbs, it was merely done in test tubes and it was obviously
    funded by the manufacturer. Why even discuss it further?

    If you have a serious condition like arthritis or prostate
    disease there are no Magic Supplements to help you. Changing
    your LIFESTYLE is going to cure you. Making better food
    choices, taking at least 20 proven natural supplements,
    balancing your basic hormones, fasting one day a week, not
    taking prescription drugs, getting some kind of exercise,
    and keeping bad habits to a minimum. This is what natural
    health is all about and not Magic Supplements you see on TV,
    hear on radio and read about on the internet.
     
    Tags:


  2. markd

    markd Guest

    My reaction is that it is spam for roger mason. Putting his
    name in google gets the first hits as paid hits. The article
    makes him look real "good" and knowing what he is talking
    about in health by blasting a "fraud", which means he is an
    expert and against fraud; all in one swoop. Not very clever,
    but cute very cute.

    >I'd appreciate your thoughts on this article criticising
    >Zyflamend...
    >
    >CURE ARTHRITIS AND PROSTATE CANCER ONLY $21.95 By
    >Roger Mason
    >
    >
    >Remember when PC-SPES was touted the world over as a
    >scientifically proven cure for prostate cancer? Dr. Jesse
    >Stoff even wrote a book called "The Prostate Miracle"
    >telling everyone this was the Magic Supplement for prostate
    >cancer. The president of Kensington Publishing, who printed
    >the book, died soon after following Stoff's advice.
    >
    >Your author was the only person in the world who kept
    >preaching that this whole thing was a scam for money and
    >anyone involved the promotion was either a criminal or, at
    >best, a damned fool. Wasn't it Mark Twain who said, "there
    >are fools and then there are damned fools"? It was
    >discovered that not only was PC-SPES worthless, but was
    >adulterated with rat poison (warfarin) and prescription
    >drugs and was pulled off the market. I told you so, I told
    >you so, I told you so..
    >
    >Now we have Zyflamend which is a mixture of ten different
    >herbs. First it was promoted as a natural COX-2 inhibitor
    >for arthritis. Now it is being promoted as well for
    >prostate cancer. Life Extension sells this, which should
    >tell you right there everything you need to know about
    >it. They have a "sale price" of $21.99- which is the
    > regular retail price! Other net stores have it for half
    > that if you want to buy some.
    >
    >Somehow people think there is some real magic in putting
    >together a lot of herbs in a single product. The "more is
    >better" theory. There is not. In fact, the best way of all
    >to practice herbology is with single herbs and no mixtures
    >at all, much less ones with ten different plants. In my
    >files are the last 30 years of published research on both
    >arthritis and prostate disease from Chemical Abstracts (the
    >scientist's bible). If it ain't in Chem Abs it ain't worth
    >knowing basically. This reference is the alpha and omega of
    >science. Every six months I go thru the new volumes on 30
    >subjects including arthritis and prostate disease.
    >
    >At least the people at New Charter are honest enough to
    >tell you how much of each herb is in the product. Give
    >them credit for that much. Let's take a look at just
    >what's in here.
    >
    >This is based on two capsules and each bottle has 60
    >capsules or a one month supply.
    >
    >Holy basil 100 mg with 2% ursolic acid. This gives you 2 mg
    >of ursolic acid which is biologically insignificant. Can
    >anyone show me one single clinical published study on the
    >benefits of holy basil or ursolic acid for either arthritis
    >or prostate cancer? Tumeric 100 mg of 7% curcumin. This
    >gives you 7 mg of curcumin. Yes, curcumin is a fine
    >supplement for both arthritis and prostate conditions. You
    >need about 500 mg to do you any good, so you'd need to take
    >almost three bottles a day of Zyflamend. Green Tea 100 mg
    >of 45% polyphenols. This gives you 45 mg of polyphenols.
    >First of all ,it is not de-caffeinated. Secondly, you
    >should be taking a lot more than 45 mg. Ginger 100 mg with
    >20% various ingredients and 4% zingiberere. This gives you
    >4 mg of zingiberine. Ginger has no benefit for either
    >arthritis or prostate. Ginger is a relatively week herb and
    >you have to eat several grams of it if used to prevent
    >seasickness or calm your stomach. Rosemary leaf 100 mg with
    >23% active ingredients. You get 23 mg. Rosemary is a fine
    >herb but has no benefit for either arthritis or prostate.
    >You would have to take a lot more than this to get any
    >benefit. More rosemary 5:1 extract 50 mg is also added.
    >Polygunum cuspidatum root 80 mg of 8% resveratrol. This
    >gives you 6.4 mg of resveratrol. This is a well known
    >Chinese herb but has no benefit for arthritis or prostate
    >and you would have to take a lot more than 80 mg to get any
    >benefits. Goldthread 40 mg (strength not given). Goldthread
    >is a fine herb, but has no benefit for arthritis or
    >prostate, and you would have to take a lot more than 40 mg
    >to get any benefits. Barberry root 40 mg with 6% berberine.
    >You get 2.4 mg of berberine. Barberry is a classic herb
    >with many benefits for some conditions, but it has no value
    >in arthritis or prostate and you would have to take a lot
    >more than 40 mg. Oregano 40 mg with 0.8% TPA. You get all
    >of 0.32 mg (that is one third of one milligram) of TPA.
    >Oregano has been promoted recently, but there are no
    >published studies that show benefits for arthritis or
    >prostate. And you would need a lot more than one third of
    >one milligram of active ingredient to get any value from
    >this. Scutellaria baicalensis ("scute") 20 mg of 5:1
    >extract. Scute is a classic Chinese herb known for
    >centuries, but not for arthritis or prostate. Taking 20 mg
    >is biologically useless as it only equals 100 mg of whole
    >herb. Folks, if you feel any of these ten ingredients have
    >any value for you, just go out and buy them individually
    >and take the amounts you need. You can get sixty capsules
    >of 500 mg curcumin, for example, for less than $25. Other
    >than curcumin and green tea it doesn't seem any of the
    >other ingredients have any value for these conditions. What
    >about this "study" that has been so prominently promoted?
    >It isn't published, it used the brand name and not a
    >generic mix of herbs, it was merely done in test tubes and
    >it was obviously funded by the manufacturer. Why even
    >discuss it further?
    >
    >If you have a serious condition like arthritis or prostate
    >disease there are no Magic Supplements to help you.
    >Changing your LIFESTYLE is going to cure you. Making better
    >food choices, taking at least 20 proven natural
    >supplements, balancing your basic hormones, fasting one day
    >a week, not taking prescription drugs, getting some kind of
    >exercise, and keeping bad habits to a minimum. This is what
    >natural health is all about and not Magic Supplements you
    >see on TV, hear on radio and read about on the internet.
     
  3. John De Hoog

    John De Hoog Guest

    wrote...

    > My reaction is that it is spam for roger mason. Putting
    > his name in google gets the first hits as paid hits. The
    > article makes him look real "good" and knowing what he is
    > talking about in health by blasting a "fraud", which means
    > he is an expert and against fraud; all in one swoop.
    >
    > Not very clever, but cute very cute.

    But aren't you shooting the messenger rather than examining
    his message? The point that the ingredients are provided in
    such small portions as to be of little effectiveness could
    very well be true, after all. I've noticed that to be the
    case with the vast majority of such products (mixes of many
    different herbs, etc.) on the market. People think, "Look,
    it's got all these good ingredients," without considering
    the dosage.

    --
    John de Hoog http://dehoog.org
     
  4. markd

    markd Guest

    With the author's name emblazoned at the top a small red
    flag goes up and a tiny bell rings. Were it not for the
    "ernest question" spam approach one sees the article a
    straight marketing of the author, his "insight", his
    judgement, his "skill" at using supplements, etc.; a self
    promotion. After blasting another as a fraud, he at the end
    says I am here to do the "real" thing about this problems,
    so buy me instead. Anytime one person selling something does
    so by blasting another and drawing a contrast with himself
    as being in the "real" know, red flags go up and bells start
    to ring for sure. Given all that, that he identifies a multi
    product as not having the levels of "good" stuff is almost
    irrelevant and but a marketing bit of spin.

    >But aren't you shooting the messenger rather than examining
    >his message? The point that the ingredients are provided in
    >such small portions as to be of little effectiveness could
    >very well be true, after all. I've noticed that to be the
    >case with the vast majority of such products (mixes of many
    >different herbs, etc.) on the market. People think, "Look,
    >it's got all these good ingredients," without considering
    >the dosage.
    >
    >--
    >John de Hoog http://dehoog.org
     
  5. markd

    markd Guest

    With the author's name emblazoned at the top a small red
    flag goes up and a tiny bell rings. Were it not for the
    "ernest question" spam approach one sees the article a
    straight marketing of the author, his "insight", his
    judgement, his "skill" at using supplements, etc.; a self
    promotion. After blasting another as a fraud, he at the end
    says I am here to do the "real" thing about this problems,
    so buy me instead. Anytime one person selling something does
    so by blasting another and drawing a contrast with himself
    as being in the "real" know, red flags go up and bells start
    to ring for sure. Given all that, that he identifies a multi
    product as not having the levels of "good" stuff is almost
    irrelevant and but a marketing bit of spin.

    >But aren't you shooting the messenger rather than examining
    >his message? The point that the ingredients are provided in
    >such small portions as to be of little effectiveness could
    >very well be true, after all. I've noticed that to be the
    >case with the vast majority of such products (mixes of many
    >different herbs, etc.) on the market. People think, "Look,
    >it's got all these good ingredients," without considering
    >the dosage.
    >
    >--
    >John de Hoog http://dehoog.org
     
  6. The author blasting zyflamend was unable to correctly cite
    the company that produces it, New Chapter, not New
    Charter....this does not gain my confidence. I actually have
    a lot of experience with this product line and New Chapter
    is considered one of the most reputable, highest quality
    supplement companies out there (no I do not work for them!).
    They have worked in conjuction with several medical centers
    to design and conduct clinical trials in the areas of
    prostate cancer and arthritis (one of the few companies
    willing to invest in their products to that degree). Also,
    on the dosing issue, New chapter uses a super critical
    extraction process that concentrates the active components
    of the herb so you actually end up getting more activity vs.
    traditional extracts. If anyone is interested I would highly
    recommend their website (www.new-chapter.com). So, final
    though, its certainly not snake oil! That author should have
    picked on a supplement his own size!!

    Cheers, Lisa Student of nutritional epidemiology

    [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]reader.city-
    net.com>...
    > With the author's name emblazoned at the top a small red
    > flag goes up and a tiny bell rings. Were it not for the
    > "ernest question" spam approach one sees the article a
    > straight marketing of the author, his "insight", his
    > judgement, his "skill" at using supplements, etc.; a self
    > promotion. After blasting another as a fraud, he at the
    > end says I am here to do the "real" thing about this
    > problems, so buy me instead. Anytime one person selling
    > something does so by blasting another and drawing a
    > contrast with himself as being in the "real" know, red
    > flags go up and bells start to ring for sure. Given all
    > that, that he identifies a multi product as not having the
    > levels of "good" stuff is almost irrelevant and but a
    > marketing bit of spin.
    >
    > >But aren't you shooting the messenger rather than
    > >examining his message? The point that the ingredients are
    > >provided in such small portions as to be of little
    > >effectiveness could very well be true, after all. I've
    > >noticed that to be the case with the vast majority of
    > >such products (mixes of many different herbs, etc.) on
    > >the market. People think, "Look, it's got all these good
    > >ingredients," without considering the dosage.
    > >
    > >--
    > >John de Hoog http://dehoog.org
     
  7. Amy McCall

    Amy McCall Guest

    [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > The author blasting zyflamend was unable to correctly cite
    > the company that produces it, New Chapter, not New
    > Charter....this does not gain my confidence. I actually
    > have a lot of experience with this product line and New
    > Chapter is considered one of the most reputable, highest
    > quality supplement companies out there (no I do not work
    > for them!). They have worked in conjuction with several
    > medical centers to design and conduct clinical trials in
    > the areas of prostate cancer and arthritis (one of the few
    > companies willing to invest in their products to that
    > degree). Also, on the dosing issue, New chapter uses a
    > super critical extraction process that concentrates the
    > active components of the herb so you actually end up
    > getting more activity vs. traditional extracts. If anyone
    > is interested I would highly recommend their website (www.new-
    > chapter.com). So, final though, its certainly not snake
    > oil! That author should have picked on a supplement his
    > own size!!
    >
    > Cheers, Lisa Student of nutritional epidemiology
    >
    Thanks, Lisa (and everyone else), for your helpful post.
    I've since spoken with a knowledgeable nutritionist whom I
    respect greatly and he is a big fan of New Chapter products
    and explained that even though some ingedients are small in
    quantity, they're highly concentrated and bioavailable. I
    recently purchased several hundred dollars of NC products,
    including Zyflamend, and now feel good again about my
    purchases. The gentleman who wrote the article attacking
    Zyflamend does infomercials promoting his own prostate
    product, and so he's competing with NC. Thanks, again.
    > [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]
    > net.com>...
    > > With the author's name emblazoned at the top a small red
    > > flag goes up and a tiny bell rings. Were it not for the
    > > "ernest question" spam approach one sees the article a
    > > straight marketing of the author, his "insight", his
    > > judgement, his "skill" at using supplements, etc.; a
    > > self promotion. After blasting another as a fraud, he at
    > > the end says I am here to do the "real" thing about this
    > > problems, so buy me instead. Anytime one person selling
    > > something does so by blasting another and drawing a
    > > contrast with himself as being in the "real" know, red
    > > flags go up and bells start to ring for sure. Given all
    > > that, that he identifies a multi product as not having
    > > the levels of "good" stuff is almost irrelevant and but
    > > a marketing bit of spin.
    > >
    > > >But aren't you shooting the messenger rather than
    > > >examining his message? The point that the ingredients
    > > >are provided in such small portions as to be of little
    > > >effectiveness could very well be true, after all. I've
    > > >noticed that to be the case with the vast majority of
    > > >such products (mixes of many different herbs, etc.) on
    > > >the market. People think, "Look, it's got all these
    > > >good ingredients," without considering the dosage.
    > > >
    > > >--
    > > >John de Hoog http://dehoog.org
     
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