New Campa Record and Chorus 11 speed

[Hank]

On May 28, 8:45 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:edc8a360-4199-47b4-b3a0-1bf459248b05@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > May 25, 2008--First rumors about 2009:
> > --"Super Record" will return as an 11-speed gruppo. A narrower chain
> > will let the system work with existing wheels. In addition to
> > shifting on an 11-speed cassette, the Ergo levers will look different
> > from current models. Look for limited availability in September, with
> > more stock coming in October.
> > --Some wheels will be updated with ceramic bearings and tubular rims
> > --Some new gruppos may be added (the first in several years)
> > --Electronic shifting continues to be refined, but don't look for it
> > in your bike shop next year.
>
> The 10-speed stuff wears VERY rapidly already. A narrower 11-speed setup
> would be preposterous. I haven't changed from 9-speed and the fact is that
> if some company put out a good reliable 9-speed they'd probably steal most
> of the business away from Shimano and Campy.

Shimano and Campy both make 9-speed stuff. The 10-speed stuff helps
sell higher-priced bikes. Fewer speeds on a more robust drivetrain is
not a selling point in most markets, because I'd guess that 80% of
bikes sold never wear out their OEM consumables. I understand what
you're trying to say, but your ideals reflect your vision of a perfect
world, not what actually drives sales in the real world.

And what's your definition of "VERY rapidly?" You admit you don't ride
10-speed systems, so what are you basing this on? I've worn out 9-
speed cassettes in under 1000 miles, and I've got a 10-speed with
nearly 2000 miles, and no skipping yet, even after my last chain
change. It's more about the quality of the parts you use and your
maintenance schedule than 9 vs. 10.

 

[Derk]

Hank wrote:
>.......... I've worn out 9- speed cassettes in under 1000 miles,
In winter, I guess? Lots of mud/water?

>and I've got a 10-speed with nearly 2000 miles, and no skipping yet,
>even after my last chain change. It's more about the quality of the parts
>you use and your maintenance schedule than 9 vs. 10.
I have no 10s experience, but 9s Ultegra cassettes last about 6000-7000 km
here in the summer on my bikes and at most half that distance in the
winter. I've never changed a 9S Dura-Ace cassette: these last forever on my
bikes. The main thing is changing the chain often in my experience.

Derk

 

[Hank]

On May 28, 12:28 pm, Derk <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hank wrote:
> >.......... I've worn out 9- speed cassettes in under 1000 miles,
>
> In winter, I guess? Lots of mud/water?

Yup, and they were cheap ones - a Miche Campy-compatible, and a cheap
SRAM (PG-930? It's not a retail model) OEM cassette. On both, chrome
was flaking badly within a few hundred miles.

>
> >and I've got a 10-speed with nearly 2000 miles, and no skipping yet,
> >even after my last chain change. It's more about the quality of the parts
> >you use and your maintenance schedule than 9 vs. 10.
>
> I have no 10s experience, but 9s Ultegra cassettes last about 6000-7000 km
> here in the summer on my bikes and at most half that distance in the
> winter. I've never changed a 9S Dura-Ace cassette: these last forever on my
> bikes. The main thing is changing the chain often in my experience.
>

And that's my point...proper maintenance is the key, as well as using
quality parts. That's not to say that you should buy Record or DA
(especially since they're made for light weight, not durability) -
just steer clear of the bottom of the barrel. I have yet to wear out a
Campy Veloce cassette, but I have several bikes and several sets of
wheels for many of them, so I have yet to put more than a couple
thousand miles on any of them, but I do know that they're much more
durable than the bottom-tier model from lower tier manufacturers.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo-www.vecchios.com]

On May 28, 1:09 pm, Hank <[email protected]> wrote:
> On May 28, 8:45 am, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >news:edc8a360-4199-47b4-b3a0-1bf459248b05@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > May 25, 2008--First rumors about 2009:
> > > --"Super Record" will return as an 11-speed gruppo.  A narrower chain
> > > will let the system work with existing wheels.  In addition to
> > > shifting on an 11-speed cassette, the Ergo levers will look different
> > > from current models.  Look for limited availability in September, with
> > > more stock coming in October.
> > > --Some wheels will be updated with ceramic bearings and tubular rims
> > > --Some new gruppos may be added (the first in several years)
> > > --Electronic shifting continues to be refined, but don't look for it
> > > in your bike shop next year.
>
> > The 10-speed stuff wears VERY rapidly already. A narrower 11-speed setup
> > would be preposterous. I haven't changed from 9-speed and the fact is that
> > if some company put out a good reliable 9-speed they'd probably steal most
> > of the business away from Shimano and Campy.
>
> Shimano and Campy both make 9-speed stuff. The 10-speed stuff helps
> sell higher-priced bikes. Fewer speeds on a more robust drivetrain is
> not a selling point in most markets, because I'd guess that 80% of
> bikes sold never wear out their OEM consumables. I understand what
> you're trying to say, but your ideals reflect your vision of a perfect
> world, not what actually drives sales in the real world.
>
> And what's your definition of "VERY rapidly?" You admit you don't ride
> 10-speed systems, so what are you basing this on? I've worn out 9-
> speed cassettes in under 1000 miles, and I've got a 10-speed with
> nearly 2000 miles, and no skipping yet, even after my last chain
> change. It's more about the quality of the parts you use and your
> maintenance schedule than 9 vs. 10.

Campag 10s cogs are the same width as 9s. Narrower Spacers and chain
make the thing work. We sell very little 9s cogsets and chains in
comparison to 10s. The market has been 10s since 2000(8+ years), it's
not like 10s is new. 11s is just in keeping with shimano who is
modernizing all it's stuff, in response to Sram, which is little in
comparison, road stuff wise. I think Sram's insistence they they not
do a triple is to their detriment, as we still sell lots of triples.
As to one poster who said that if somebody made a durable 9s group, it
would put the hurts on the 'big 3', doubt it. People spend huge $ for
the latest, whether it makes sense or not. I think lever mounted
shifting and 8s was the epitome of bike drive trains, all else is
downhill.