platform or point-contact?

[Ivar Hesselager]

I use Eggbeater pedals from Crank Bros with pleasure and
without problems on ultra long rides, and therefore it
surpizes me to hear and read recommendations of pedals with
a wide contact area to the shoe sole supposedly giving
better foot comfort. Given you have stiff soles on your
shoes, why would you need a wide contact area to the pedal?
I consider it a myth that you get more comfort with pedals
like Shimano SPD-SL. Yet now I see that even Crank Bros are
beginning to follow fashion with their new models. You don't
need more than one stiff platfrom, do you? Can anyone
explain? Ivar of Denmark

 

[Peter Cole]

"Ivar Hesselager" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I use Eggbeater pedals from Crank Bros with pleasure and
> without problems on ultra long rides, and therefore it
> surpizes me to hear and read recommendations of pedals
> with a wide contact area to the shoe sole supposedly
> giving better foot comfort. Given you have stiff soles
> on your shoes, why would you need a wide contact area to
> the pedal? I consider it a myth that you get more
> comfort with pedals like Shimano SPD-SL. Yet now I see
> that even Crank Bros are beginning to follow fashion
> with their new models. You don't need more than one
> stiff platfrom, do you?

I think ultra-rides are the ultimate test, if you don't need
wide platform pedal/cleats for them, what would you need
them for? I find plain old SPD with good shoes work fine for
endurance cycling, I'd rather not give up walkability.

 

[jmm]

> Yet now I see that even Crank Bros are beginning to follow fashion with their new models...

Ivar - I thought the new pedals with the built in platforms from Crank Bros were strictly a "convenience" thing, to allow an Eggbeater equipped bike to be ridden more easily with regular walking shoes (for those that wanted or needed to).

I for one certainly don't think they're "better", at least for me. The lugs on the bottom of all my MTB shoes made it harder to get into the new Candys I bought, so I took them off and put my old standard beaters back on (I'm going to try them again later with my road shoes).

Price is usually an indication of where a manufacturer thinks things fit from a performance standpoint, and it appears that the new Mallet and Candy "platform" pedals are being positioned BELOW the traditional design Eggbeaters, kind of like entry level Eggbeaters that will appeal to those not wanting to spend as much or commit to a "clipless only" system.

John

 

[Ivar Hesselager]

> John wrote: I thought the new pedals with the built in
> platforms from Crank Bros were strictly a "convenience"
> thing, to allow an Eggbeater equipped bike to be ridden
> more easily with regular walking shoes (for those that
> wanted or needed to).

That could be a reasonable explanation.. I feared Crank Bros
were showing lack of faith in their own concept. But I was
hoping - besides gaining support for my view (thanks) - to
provoke a defence for the "platform trend", that I consider
based on myth. On the Shimano Dura Ace site is the folowing
recommendation of the top of the line SPD-SL pedal:
"Provides for a wider contact point with the pedal for
improved foot-pedal stability. Pedaling stresses on the sole
of the shoe are dispersed over a wider area for greater
comfort." Who needs a platform under a stiff sole? Defend
yourselves - platform fetishists ;-) Ivar

 

[Chris Zacho "Th]

That depends, as you presumed, on your shoes.

If your have good shoes with a solid plate within the sole
(or the sole itself) it shouldn't mater. The force of
contact will be spread across the entire foot. Not
concentrated in one spot.

Unfortunatly, many shoes today (mainly "touring" and
mountain buike shoes do not have a stiff sole [liner]. This
is to facilitate walking, which thess types of shoes are
sometimes called upon to do.

- - "May you have the wind at your back. And a really low
gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

 

[Chris Zacho "Th]

From: [email protected] (jmm)

>Ivar - I thought the new pedals with the built in
>platforms from Crank Bros were strictly a "convenience"
>thing, to allow an Eggbeater equipped bike to be ridden
>more easily with regular walking shoes (for those that
>wanted or needed to).

Actually, I have found the platform/clipless setup very
useful in situations where you don't have a lot of time to
find the clip and engage it. A particularly technical spot
on a mountain bike trail is one example. Being able to
simply stomp on the pedal and not having to worry about
whether you re engaged or not can be useful.

I have a set of Shimano SPD/platform pedals (M424) on my
Reaper. The spring holding the SPD portion at the proper
entry angle is nice too as it aids in engagement

- - "May you have the wind at your back. And a really low
gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

 

[William Holiday]

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:26:32 -0500 (EST), [email protected] (Chris Zacho
"The Wheelman") wrote:

<Actually, I have found the platform/clipless setup very
useful in <situations where you don't have a lot of time to
find the clip and <engage it. A particularly technical spot
on a mountain bike trail is one <example. Being able to
simply stomp on the pedal and not having to worry <about
whether you re engaged or not can be useful.

That makes sense to me but the marketing people ain't
sayin' that. 8-0

 

[Ivar Hesselager]

> Actually, I have found the platform/clipless setup very
> useful in situations where you don't have a lot of time to
> find the clip and engage it. A particularly technical spot
> on a mountain bike trail is one example. Being able to
> simply stomp on the pedal and not having to worry about
> whether you re engaged or not can be useful.

Crank Bros has kindly confirmed your intelligent
interpretation, that their new platform pedals are meant for
shoes not (yet) clipped in: "The Mallet was designed with
the downhill free ride consumer in mind, to give you a
platform when you're not clipped in." And likewise they
denounce the "platform myth" in the pedal market.

> I have a set of Shimano SPD/platform pedals (M424) on my
> Reaper. The spring holding the SPD portion at the proper
> entry angle is nice too as it aids in engagement

I can understand that a platform facilitates "clipping in" -
(if you are not on Eggbeater) but is this an issue for Lance
and the peleton of legstrongs on SPD-SL platforms? ;-) The
platfom myth is still lacking "rationale", it seems. Ivar

 

[David Damerell]

Ivar Hesselager <[email protected]> wrote:
>Who needs a platform under a stiff sole? Defend yourselves
>- platform fetishists ;-)

A stiff sole isn't perfectly stiff; it's still a bit bendy.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]>
Distortion Field!

 

[Ivar Hesselager]

> A stiff sole isn't perfectly stiff; it's still a bit
> bendy.
> --
OK Dave, you have at point there, but for all practical
purpouses my soles are proven stiff enough for an Eggbeater.
So who needs a platform underneath a sole, that is stiff
enough? ;-} Ivar

 

[Trent Gregory H]

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Ivar Hesselager wrote:

> Who needs a platform under a stiff sole? Defend yourselves
> - platform fetishists ;-) Ivar

Well, it does help prevent pronation and supination around
the metatarsal axes--i.e. rolling onto the inner or outer
edges of your feet.

Trent

 

[Peter Cole]

"trent gregory hill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Ivar Hesselager wrote:
>
> > Who needs a platform under a stiff sole? Defend
> > yourselves - platform fetishists ;-) Ivar
>
> Well, it does help prevent pronation and supination around
> the metatarsal axes--i.e. rolling onto the inner or outer
> edges of your feet.

I've found that, with SPD anyway, you can eliminate this
problem by locating the cleat correctly for your feet. If
you have a natural pronation, you can shim one side of the
cleat with washers also.

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <hBf8c.81782$1p.1203888@attbi_s54>,
"Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "trent gregory hill" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news[email protected]
> washington.edu...
> > On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Ivar Hesselager wrote:
> >
> > > Who needs a platform under a stiff sole? Defend
> > > yourselves - platform fetishists ;-) Ivar
> >
> > Well, it does help prevent pronation and supination
> > around the metatarsal axes--i.e. rolling onto the inner
> > or outer edges of your feet.
>
> I've found that, with SPD anyway, you can eliminate this
> problem by locating the cleat correctly for your feet. If
> you have a natural pronation, you can shim one side of the
> cleat with washers also.

As a confirmed SPD user--I road race on SPD dual-sided pedals--
I'd say no to platforms, for most purposes. I have a set of
the old mini-platform Shimano SPDs on my commuter bike. I
don't find that it serves any serious purpose.

OTOH, I use the Shimano 535 "DX" caged pedals on my MTB.
There, they give one options if you're clipped out while
descending. They happen to be an especially good fit with my
current Axo Vertigo shoes, as the platform fits nicely in
the arch section of that shoe.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected]
http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/ President, Fabrizio
Mazzoleni Fan Club

 

[Peter Cole]

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> OTOH, I use the Shimano 535 "DX" caged pedals on my MTB.
> There, they give one options if you're clipped out while
> descending. They happen to be an especially good fit with
> my current Axo Vertigo shoes, as the platform fits nicely
> in the arch section of that shoe.

Funny, I *never* clip out (except to dab), especially in
downhill sections. Perhaps it's different riding conditions
around here (more single track than fire road).

 

[Chalo]

"Ivar Hesselager" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Who needs a platform under a stiff sole? Defend yourselves
> - platform fetishists ;-)

I'll propose a related question-- who wants a stiff-
soled shoe when he's got a nice broad supportive
platform of a pedal?

I used to have bike shoes, work shoes, and dress shoes. Now
I just have shoes. They are all "walkable", they all shine
up nicely with a bit of shoe grease, and they all work with
my pedals.

Here are my favorite pedals:
http://www.snafubmx.com/graphics/pictures/concavepedal.jpg

Chalo Colina

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Chalo) wrote:

> "Ivar Hesselager" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Who needs a platform under a stiff sole? Defend
> > yourselves - platform fetishists ;-)
>
> I'll propose a related question-- who wants a stiff-
> soled shoe when he's got a nice broad supportive
> platform of a pedal?
>
> I used to have bike shoes, work shoes, and dress shoes.
> Now I just have shoes. They are all "walkable", they all
> shine up nicely with a bit of shoe grease, and they all
> work with my pedals.
>
> Here are my favorite pedals: http://www.snafubmx.com/grap-
> hics/pictures/concavepedal.jpg
>
> Chalo Colina

I addressed this, more or less, the last time you asked why
bike shoes use stiff soles. And the short answer is that if
you're happy with the efficiency of your choice, it's the
best choice of all, since it doesn't require special shoes.

The problem is that there is a very noticeable gain in
efficiency and ease of pedaling to be gained from stiff
shoes and clipless (or
clip/straps, but there you have comfort and ease of
entry/exit issues) pedals.

I also find I like the added security of clipless. I am
loath to make a safety claim, but I can pedal harder and
less tentatively because my feet cannot lift off the pedals.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected]
http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/ President, Fabrizio
Mazzoleni Fan Club

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <aci8c.82865$Cb.1102069@attbi_s51>,
"Peter Cole" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > OTOH, I use the Shimano 535 "DX" caged pedals on my MTB.
> > There, they give one options if you're clipped out while
> > descending. They happen to be an especially good fit
> > with my current Axo Vertigo shoes, as the platform fits
> > nicely in the arch section of that shoe.
>
> Funny, I *never* clip out (except to dab), especially in
> downhill sections. Perhaps it's different riding
> conditions around here (more single track than fire road).

I ride my "Race Light" 65 mm-travel hardtail down the local
easy descents. You know, ladders, stunts, repeated water-bar
drops, very tight switchbacks, etc. I give the burly, high-
penalty lines a miss.

None of this excuses the fact that I have fairly poor riding
technique.
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected]
http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/ President, Fabrizio
Mazzoleni Fan Club