Weight Training to On the Bike Strength.

[Warren]

In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:

> warren <[email protected]> wrote:
> : Pro roadies can utilize fat for fuel more efficiently than most cyclists who are not pros,
> : Ironman elite, marathon elite, etc. The % of total calories as fat could be higher for them and
> : not cause the problems it might for people who aren't as well adapted to fat for fuel.
>
> Sounds plausible, but does the fat you burn on the ride come as fat in the diet? ... The fat
> storage in human body - any body short of famished one to my understanding - is huge when compared
> to the vast majority of cycling needs. If you can burn fat off that storage while riding, you are
> going to have a huge advantage.

Most pros don't have enough extra fat on their body to make available as fuel. During the latter
stages of races the team cars can't always get carbs to the riders and fat sources will provide more
(longlasting) calories.

> Does protein have any significance as an energy source? I think a few odd percentages of your
> energy requirement is satisfied by protein in long road races.

Yes, and rather than let that protein come from your muscles (very bad) it should come from dietary
protein. If you don't provide enough carbs too and you're not great at burning fat you're likely to
cannibalize muscle tissue for fuel.

-WG

 

[Amit]

warren <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<030520030924149997%
>
> Most pros don't have enough extra fat on their body to make available as fuel. During the latter
> stages of races the team cars can't always get carbs to the riders and fat sources will provide
> more (longlasting) calories.
>

I don't think not having enough fat is the main problem with trying to use fat as fuel. You burn
more fat at lower intensities (not usually the case at the end of a race) or if you're fitter.

Does having less fat mean it's not as readily available as fuel ? That's what you seem to
by implying.

-Amit

 

[Warren]

In article <[email protected]>, Amit <[email protected]> wrote:

> warren <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<030520030924149997%
> >
> > Most pros don't have enough extra fat on their body to make available as fuel. During the latter
> > stages of races the team cars can't always get carbs to the riders and fat sources will provide
> > more (longlasting) calories.
> >
>
> I don't think not having enough fat is the main problem with trying to use fat as fuel. You burn
> more fat at lower intensities (not usually the case at the end of a race) or if you're fitter.
>
> Does having less fat mean it's not as readily available as fuel ? That's what you seem to by
> implying.

You can speculate about the reasons why you think it may or may not matter, but the pros eat fats
for fuel during races for the reasons I mentioned. If a pro relies on bodyfat for part of their fuel
how long do think they could do this (days, weeks)?

As for being fitter to help burn fat, that's not necessarily true. Fast twitch fibers aren't good at
using fat for fuel, slow twitch is much better suited for that (fat needs alot more oxygen than
glycogen or blood glucose to convert to fuel), so a fit rider who relies on alot of fast twitch and
lactate tolerance for their ability isn't going to do as well with fats for fuel. Improving the
ability of one's slow twitch fibers should also improve one's ability to burn fat for fuel.

-WG

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:030520031419215397%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Amit
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > warren <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<030520030924149997%
> > >
> > > Most pros don't have enough extra fat on their body to make available as fuel. During the
> > > latter stages of races the team cars can't always get carbs to the riders and fat sources will
> > > provide more
(longlasting)
> > > calories.
> > >
> >
> > I don't think not having enough fat is the main problem with trying to use fat as fuel. You burn
> > more fat at lower intensities (not usually the case at the end of a race) or if you're fitter.
> >
> > Does having less fat mean it's not as readily available as fuel ? That's what you seem to by
> > implying.
>
> You can speculate about the reasons why you think it may or may not matter, but the pros eat fats
> for fuel during races for the reasons I mentioned. If a pro relies on bodyfat for part of their
> fuel how long do think they could do this (days, weeks)?
>
> As for being fitter to help burn fat, that's not necessarily true. Fast twitch fibers aren't good
> at using fat for fuel, slow twitch is much better suited for that (fat needs alot more oxygen than
> glycogen or blood glucose to convert to fuel), so a fit rider who relies on alot of fast twitch
> and lactate tolerance for their ability isn't going to do as well with fats for fuel. Improving
> the ability of one's slow twitch fibers should also improve one's ability to burn fat for fuel.

Professional roadies are good at burning fat. They have to be - the races are up to 6 hours long and
the greater the portion of fat that a racer burns, the less glycogen he uses, thereby having more in
reserve at the end when it matters.

Ever go on long training rides with some decent pros? They can do 6 hour tempo rides without eating
much because they've developed their fat burning engines.

The reason they need to feed more during races is the intensities are higher, therefore more
glycogen is being used and needs to be replenished, not because they are incapable of burning fat.

Ask your coach about this, he'll tell you.

As for not having enough fat on their body - that's why they eat those huge dinners during stage
races - replenishing muscle glycogen and fat stores.

 

[Mark McMaster]

warren wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>warren <[email protected]> wrote:
>>: Pro roadies can utilize fat for fuel more efficiently than most cyclists who are not pros,
>>: Ironman elite, marathon elite, etc. The % of total calories as fat could be higher for them and
>>: not cause the problems it might for people who aren't as well adapted to fat for fuel.
>>
>>Sounds plausible, but does the fat you burn on the ride come as fat in the diet? ... The fat
>>storage in human body - any body short of famished one to my understanding - is huge when compared
>>to the vast majority of cycling needs. If you can burn fat off that storage while riding, you are
>>going to have a huge advantage.
>
>
> Most pros don't have enough extra fat on their body to make available as fuel.

Hogwash. Even at the lower body fat levels of endurance athletes, they can store far more (usable)
fuel as fat than as glycogen (carbohydrate). The human body can store a total of about 2000 calories
of energy as glycogen, whereas a single pound of fat contains about 3500 calories.

Mark McMaster [email protected]

 

[Warren]

In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:030520031419215397%[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, Amit <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > warren <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<030520030924149997%
> > > >
> > > > Most pros don't have enough extra fat on their body to make available as fuel. During the
> > > > latter stages of races the team cars can't always get carbs to the riders and fat sources
> > > > will provide more
> (longlasting)
> > > > calories.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I don't think not having enough fat is the main problem with trying to use fat as fuel. You
> > > burn more fat at lower intensities (not usually the case at the end of a race) or if you're
> > > fitter.
> > >
> > > Does having less fat mean it's not as readily available as fuel ? That's what you seem to by
> > > implying.
> >
> > You can speculate about the reasons why you think it may or may not matter, but the pros eat
> > fats for fuel during races for the reasons I mentioned. If a pro relies on bodyfat for part of
> > their fuel how long do think they could do this (days, weeks)?
> >
> > As for being fitter to help burn fat, that's not necessarily true. Fast twitch fibers aren't
> > good at using fat for fuel, slow twitch is much better suited for that (fat needs alot more
> > oxygen than glycogen or blood glucose to convert to fuel), so a fit rider who relies on alot of
> > fast twitch and lactate tolerance for their ability isn't going to do as well with fats for
> > fuel. Improving the ability of one's slow twitch fibers should also improve one's ability to
> > burn fat for fuel.
>
>
>
> Professional roadies are good at burning fat. They have to be - the races are up to 6 hours long
> and the greater the portion of fat that a racer burns, the less glycogen he uses, thereby having
> more in reserve at the end when it matters.
>
> Ever go on long training rides with some decent pros? They can do 6 hour tempo rides without
> eating much because they've developed their fat burning engines.
>
> The reason they need to feed more during races is the intensities are higher, therefore more
> glycogen is being used and needs to be replenished, not because they are incapable of burning fat.
>
> Ask your coach about this, he'll tell you.

He did. I don't think you and I disagree here. I never suggested they are incapable of burning fat,
I said they have to be good at it. They'll eat a ham and cheese sandwich during races. The last 2
hours or so they'll suck down a few gels if they get a chance, otherwise they just rely alot on the
fat they ate earlier.

> As for not having enough fat on their body - that's why they eat those huge dinners during stage
> races - replenishing muscle glycogen and fat stores.

They get glucose IV's most every night because they need even more help replenishing their glycogen
(and some other things). That's why I've said a pro has to be good as using fat for fuel (eating it)
because they can't just rely on bodyfat for fuel like Amit suggested-they'd run "out" of that supply
in a few days or so.

-WG

 

[Warren]

In article <[email protected]>, Mark McMaster <[email protected]> wrote:

> warren wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>warren <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>: Pro roadies can utilize fat for fuel more efficiently than most cyclists who are not pros,
> >>: Ironman elite, marathon elite, etc. The % of total calories as fat could be higher for them
> >>: and not cause the problems it might for people who aren't as well adapted to fat for fuel.
> >>
> >>Sounds plausible, but does the fat you burn on the ride come as fat in the diet? ... The fat
> >>storage in human body - any body short of famished one to my understanding - is huge when
> >>compared to the vast majority of cycling needs. If you can burn fat off that storage while
> >>riding, you are going to have a huge advantage.
> >
> >
> > Most pros don't have enough extra fat on their body to make available as fuel.
>
> Hogwash. Even at the lower body fat levels of endurance athletes, they can store far more (usable)
> fuel as fat than as glycogen (carbohydrate). The human body can store a total of about 2000
> calories of energy as glycogen, whereas a single pound of fat contains about 3500 calories.

And how many days in a row do you think a pro can do this?

And while their body is trying to get some energy from their bodyfat because of insufficient dietary
fat, glucose, and glycogen, how much muscle tissue is cannibalized for its protein?

Still wanna go with the idea of a pro relying on bodyfat for some fuel?

-WG

 

[Amit]

warren <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<030520031653410284%[email protected]>...

> He did. I don't think you and I disagree here. I never suggested they are incapable of burning
> fat, I said they have to be good at it. They'll eat a ham and cheese sandwich during races. The
> last 2 hours or so they'll suck down a few gels if they get a chance, otherwise they just rely
> alot on the fat they ate earlier.
>

It's well established that fit individuals can get more of their energy from fat at a given
intensity. I don't think we disagree here.

> > As for not having enough fat on their body - that's why they eat those huge dinners during stage
> > races - replenishing muscle glycogen and fat stores.
>
> They get glucose IV's most every night because they need even more help replenishing their
> glycogen (and some other things). That's why I've said a pro has to be good as using fat for fuel
> (eating it) because they can't just rely on bodyfat for fuel like Amit suggested-they'd run "out"
> of that supply in a few days or so.
>
If they maintain a neutral energy balance they won't "run out" of fat to burn as you suggest, even
if they don't eat a lot of fat. I don't see how you can argue otherwise.

I'm not sure what all riders eat, but I don't see racers eating real food (like sandwiches) during
races. I'm sure some do, but I'm sure a lot don't. Besides, even a ham and cheese sandwich doesn't
have a lot of fat compared to the energy requirement of a 6 hour ride or race.

A slice of cheese has what - 10 g of fat and 100 calories ? how many would one have to eat during a
world cup race ? Somehow I don't picture every pro eating 10 slices of cheese during LBL or an
alpine stage.

-Amit

 

[Wayne]

warren <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<030520031743474543%[email protected]>...
> In article <[email protected]>, Mark McMaster <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > warren wrote:
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>warren <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>: Pro roadies can utilize fat for fuel more efficiently than most cyclists who are not pros,
> > >>: Ironman elite, marathon elite, etc. The % of total calories as fat could be higher for them
> > >>: and not cause the problems it might for people who aren't as well adapted to fat for fuel.
> > >>
> > >>Sounds plausible, but does the fat you burn on the ride come as fat in the diet? ... The fat
> > >>storage in human body - any body short of famished one to my understanding - is huge when
> > >>compared to the vast majority of cycling needs. If you can burn fat off that storage while
> > >>riding, you are going to have a huge advantage.
> > >
> > >
> > > Most pros don't have enough extra fat on their body to make available as fuel.
> >
> > Hogwash. Even at the lower body fat levels of endurance athletes, they can store far more
> > (usable) fuel as fat than as glycogen (carbohydrate). The human body can store a total of about
> > 2000 calories of energy as glycogen, whereas a single pound of fat contains about 3500 calories.
>
> And how many days in a row do you think a pro can do this?
>
> And while their body is trying to get some energy from their bodyfat because of insufficient
> dietary fat, glucose, and glycogen, how much muscle tissue is cannibalized for its protein?
>
> Still wanna go with the idea of a pro relying on bodyfat for some fuel?

Yes.

Where are you getting your information? Just because pros eat foods containing fats during long
races doesn't mean they can't access their own stored body fat. What makes you think fat stores are
less replaceable than glycogen stores? BTW, it's not uncommon for pros to lose muscle mass during
the grand tours.

My understanding of fat metabolism during exercise is that initially, intermuscular triglycerides
are the primary lipid source for oxidation. As exercise time progresses, lipids are increasingly
mobilized from adipose tissue to supply fats for oxidation. While eating fatty foods may have a
glycogen and adipose tissue sparing effect (at submaximal exercise intensities), again, that doesn't
mean "pros" have an inability to access their body fat stores for energy use.

Given that it's been shown that high-fat meals can shift the carbs/fats ratio of energy use towards
fats (at sub-maximal exercise intensities) thus resulting in a glycogen sparing effect wouldn't that
make a much more plausible explanation (given that it's known that glycogen depletion, not fat
depletion is a primary source of fatigue) as to why pro cyclists find it advantageous to eat fatty
foods early in races?

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:030520031743474543%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Mark McMaster <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > warren wrote:
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>warren <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>: Pro roadies can utilize fat for fuel more efficiently than most cyclists who are not pros,
> > >>: Ironman elite, marathon elite, etc. The %
of
> > >>: total calories as fat could be higher for them and not cause the problems it might for
> > >>: people who aren't as well adapted to fat for fuel.
> > >>
> > >>Sounds plausible, but does the fat you burn on the ride come as fat in the diet? ... The fat
> > >>storage in human body - any body short of famished one to my understanding - is huge when
> > >>compared to the vast majority of cycling needs. If you can burn fat off that storage while
> > >>riding, you are going to have a huge advantage.
> > >
> > >
> > > Most pros don't have enough extra fat on their body to make available as fuel.
> >
> > Hogwash. Even at the lower body fat levels of endurance athletes, they can store far more
> > (usable) fuel as fat than as glycogen (carbohydrate). The human body can store a total of about
> > 2000 calories of energy as glycogen, whereas a single pound of fat contains about 3500 calories.
>
> And how many days in a row do you think a pro can do this?
>
> And while their body is trying to get some energy from their bodyfat because of insufficient
> dietary fat, glucose, and glycogen, how much muscle tissue is cannibalized for its protein?
>
> Still wanna go with the idea of a pro relying on bodyfat for some fuel?

I would speculate that even in a stage race the majority of their power output comes from
metabolizing fat.

Ask your coach.

 

[Chiefhiawatha]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Wayne) wrote:
> Given that it's been shown that high-fat meals can shift the carbs/fats ratio of energy use
> towards fats (at sub-maximal exercise intensities) thus resulting in a glycogen sparing effect
> wouldn't that make a much more plausible explanation (given that it's known that glycogen
> depletion, not fat depletion is a primary source of fatigue) as to why pro cyclists find it
> advantageous to eat fatty foods early in races?

They've been eating this stuff before I was born.

We talked to the US Postal feedbag handout guy at the 2000 TdF and he said the guys can't stand
energy bars and gels after a while. They crave real food. Inside the musettes were ham and cheese
(teeny) sandwiches, honey and bread, and stuff like that.

So I think it goes 1 tradition 2 variety and 3 caloric density.

 

[Warren]

In article <[email protected]>, Amit <[email protected]> wrote:

> warren <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<030520031653410284%[email protected]>...
>
> > He did. I don't think you and I disagree here. I never suggested they are incapable of burning
> > fat, I said they have to be good at it. They'll eat a ham and cheese sandwich during races. The
> > last 2 hours or so they'll suck down a few gels if they get a chance, otherwise they just rely
> > alot on the fat they ate earlier.
> >
>
> It's well established that fit individuals can get more of their energy from fat at a given
> intensity. I don't think we disagree here.
>
> > > As for not having enough fat on their body - that's why they eat those huge dinners during
> > > stage races - replenishing muscle glycogen and fat stores.
> >
> > They get glucose IV's most every night because they need even more help replenishing their
> > glycogen (and some other things). That's why I've said a pro has to be good as using fat for
> > fuel (eating it) because they can't just rely on bodyfat for fuel like Amit suggested-they'd run
> > "out" of that supply in a few days or so.
> >
> If they maintain a neutral energy balance they won't "run out" of fat to burn as you suggest, even
> if they don't eat a lot of fat. I don't see how you can argue otherwise.

The problem is that they can not maintain a neutral balance. They can't eat or inject enough
calories. They will use some bodyfat but this must be minimized because their supplies are so
limited. They can eat more fat because it's a dense source of calories and they are better at
metabolizing the fat than most non-pros.

-WG

 

[Warren]

In article <[email protected]>, Wayne <[email protected]> wrote:

> warren <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<030520031743474543%[email protected]>...
> > In article <[email protected]>, Mark McMaster <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > warren wrote:
> > > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>warren <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >>: Pro roadies can utilize fat for fuel more efficiently than most cyclists who are not pros,
> > > >>: Ironman elite, marathon elite, etc. The %
> > > >>of
> > > >>: total calories as fat could be higher for them and not cause the problems it might for
> > > >>: people who aren't as well adapted to fat for fuel.
> > > >>
> > > >>Sounds plausible, but does the fat you burn on the ride come as fat in the diet? ... The fat
> > > >>storage in human body - any body short of famished one to my understanding - is huge when
> > > >>compared to the vast majority of cycling needs. If you can burn fat off that storage while
> > > >>riding, you are going to have a huge advantage.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Most pros don't have enough extra fat on their body to make available as fuel.
> > >
> > > Hogwash. Even at the lower body fat levels of endurance athletes, they can store far more
> > > (usable) fuel as fat than as glycogen (carbohydrate). The human body can store a total of
> > > about 2000 calories of energy as glycogen, whereas a single pound of fat contains about 3500
> > > calories.
> >
> > And how many days in a row do you think a pro can do this?
> >
> > And while their body is trying to get some energy from their bodyfat because of insufficient
> > dietary fat, glucose, and glycogen, how much muscle tissue is cannibalized for its protein?
> >
> > Still wanna go with the idea of a pro relying on bodyfat for some fuel?
>
> Yes.
>
> Where are you getting your information? Just because pros eat foods containing fats during long
> races doesn't mean they can't access their own stored body fat.

Of course they can access but the supply is so limited thay can't rely on it for more than
a few days.

> What makes you think fat stores are less replaceable than glycogen stores?

I never said that.

> BTW, it's not uncommon for pros to lose muscle mass during the grand tours.

And the reason is... Not enough calories going in and not enough bodyfat to keep up with demand. And
don't you think they would do everything they can to minimize loss of muscle mass?

> Given that it's been shown that high-fat meals can shift the carbs/fats ratio of energy use
> towards fats (at sub-maximal exercise intensities) thus resulting in a glycogen sparing effect
> wouldn't that make a much more plausible explanation (given that it's known that glycogen
> depletion, not fat depletion is a primary source of fatigue) as to why pro cyclists find it
> advantageous to eat fatty foods early in races?

That could be a reason. The shift you speak of is not the reason told to me. Perhaps because it's
not as important as needing to be efficient at using fat for fuel because that may be (almost) all
that is available during the finale.

-WG

 

[Warren]

In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I would speculate that even in a stage race the majority of their power output comes from
> metabolizing fat.
>
> Ask your coach.

I've said exactly what you just said except the fat should not come from bodyfat because of its
limited supply and the related problems.

-WG

 

[Jeff Jones]

"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:040520030815235659%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Amit
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > If they maintain a neutral energy balance they won't "run out" of fat to burn as you suggest,
> > even if they don't eat a lot of fat. I don't see how you can argue otherwise.
>
> The problem is that they can not maintain a neutral balance. They can't eat or inject enough
> calories. They will use some bodyfat but this must be minimized because their supplies are so
> limited. They can eat more fat because it's a dense source of calories and they are better at
> metabolizing the fat than most non-pros.
>
From what I read, cyclists in the Tour can maintain their energy balance remarkably well. It may
have been different a few years ago, when they'd lose three kilos during the race, but it's not
uncommon now to stay at roughly the same weight throughout the Tour.

Of course they'd be eating a fair amount of fat to replace 6000-8000 calories per day (that's a
disturbingly large quantity of potatoes, btw), but their on the bike fat consumption would still be
very low. It's slow to digest, for starters, and the energy it provides is OK for moderate
intensities, but pretty useless for high intensities, as you know. It's really the high intensities
that they need the fuel for. For what it's worth, I have seen a rider pull out a chicken drumstick
from his jersey pocket and eat it during a training ride. But he definitely wasn't a pro.

Given that a rider can carry about 2000 calories of glycogen + whatever they eat for breakfast and
on the bike, their reliance on body fat stores would be limited to maybe 5000 calories a day at
most. This is just over half a kilo, and you'd find it hard to find a rider without that miniscule
amount of fat spare on his body. Even the ones who are 4-5% body fat, which for a 65 kg rider still
represents 2.5-3 kg of fat, admittedly not all of which is useable.

In the case of a rider who starts a three week tour at a very low percentage of body fat, and
doesn't eat properly, then he might last a week before turning to other bodily forms of fuel. But
most professionals are a bit more careful than this. If they start at race weight, they ensure they
eat enough each day to maintain it. If not, then it's not a problem.

Jeff

 

[Mark McMaster]

warren wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Mark McMaster <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>warren wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>warren <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>: Pro roadies can utilize fat for fuel more efficiently than most cyclists who are not pros,
>>>>: Ironman elite, marathon elite, etc. The % of total calories as fat could be higher for them
>>>>: and not cause the problems it might for people who aren't as well adapted to fat for fuel.
>>>>
>>>>Sounds plausible, but does the fat you burn on the ride come as fat in the diet? ... The fat
>>>>storage in human body - any body short of famished one to my understanding - is huge when
>>>>compared to the vast majority of cycling needs. If you can burn fat off that storage while
>>>>riding, you are going to have a huge advantage.
>>>
>>>
>>>Most pros don't have enough extra fat on their body to make available as fuel.
>>
>>Hogwash. Even at the lower body fat levels of endurance athletes, they can store far more (usable)
>>fuel as fat than as glycogen (carbohydrate). The human body can store a total of about 2000
>>calories of energy as glycogen, whereas a single pound of fat contains about 3500 calories.
>
>
> And how many days in a row do you think a pro can do this?

Well, for more days than they can rely on stored body glycogen, anyway.

You seem to be of the impression that body fat is some type of non-renewable energy sourece. In
fact, body fat is just as easily replinished as body glycogen. When a stage racer eats his/her post
race meal(s), what do you think happens to the fats they eat? It is absorbed by the body's fat
cells, ready for use next time it is required. (While not as likely for long stage races, if the
racer is able to consume more carbohydrate than is capable of being being stored as glycogen, the
carbohydrate is converted and stored as fat also.)

Some of the fat used by a racer during endurance events can come from fats ingested during the
event, but most of comes from the body's fat storage. It makes no difference whether that fat was
stored a month before, or the day before (in case of a post-race recovery meal).

Given the body's ability to store far more energy as fat than as glycogen, it is easy to store more
than enough fat for each leg of a multi-day endurance events, and to at least partially replinish it
between stages.

Mark McMaster [email protected]

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:040520030823425680%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I would speculate that even in a stage race the majority of their power output comes from
> > metabolizing fat.
> >
> > Ask your coach.
>
> I've said exactly what you just said except the fat should not come from bodyfat because of its
> limited supply and the related problems.

No you haven't. You wrote:

> Still wanna go with the idea of a pro relying on bodyfat for some fuel?

They mostly rely on bodyfat as fuel. Ask your coach.

 

[Warren]

In article <[email protected]>, Mark McMaster <[email protected]> wrote:

> warren wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>, Mark McMaster <[email protected]> wrote:

> >>Hogwash. Even at the lower body fat levels of endurance athletes, they can store far more
> >>(usable) fuel as fat than as glycogen (carbohydrate). The human body can store a total of about
> >>2000 calories of energy as glycogen, whereas a single pound of fat contains about 3500 calories.
> >
> >
> > And how many days in a row do you think a pro can do this?

> You seem to be of the impression that body fat is some type of non-renewable energy sourece.

Never said that. The problem is renewing it when there is already a caloric deficit most days. Body
fat, in general, is decreasing so how long can you rely on it?

> In fact, body fat is just as easily replinished as body glycogen. When a stage racer eats his/her
> post race meal(s), what do you think happens to the fats they eat? It is absorbed by the body's
> fat cells, ready for use next time it is required. (While not as likely for long stage races, if
> the racer is able to consume more carbohydrate than is capable of being being stored as glycogen,
> the carbohydrate is converted and stored as fat also.)

Why do you think stage racers lose weight?

> Given the body's ability to store far more energy as fat than as glycogen, it is easy to store
> more than enough fat for each leg of a multi-day endurance events,

They could, but should they? Too much stored fat going into the event will hurt them on the climbs.
Why do they lose muscle during the event?

-WG

 

[Kurgan Gringion]

"warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:040520031254493442%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Mark McMaster <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > warren wrote:
> > > In article <[email protected]>, Mark McMaster <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >>Hogwash. Even at the lower body fat levels of endurance athletes, they can store far more
> > >>(usable) fuel as fat than as glycogen (carbohydrate). The human body can store a total of
> > >>about 2000 calories of energy as glycogen, whereas a single pound of fat contains about 3500
> > >>calories.
> > >
> > >
> > > And how many days in a row do you think a pro can do this?
>
> > You seem to be of the impression that body fat is some type of non-renewable energy sourece.
>
> Never said that. The problem is renewing it when there is already a caloric deficit most days.
> Body fat, in general, is decreasing so how long can you rely on it?
>
> > In fact, body fat is just as easily replinished as body glycogen. When a stage racer eats
> > his/her post race meal(s), what do you think happens to the fats they eat? It is absorbed by the
> > body's fat cells, ready for use next time it is required. (While not as likely for long stage
> > races, if the racer is able to consume more carbohydrate than is capable of being being stored
> > as glycogen, the carbohydrate is converted and stored as fat also.)
>
> Why do you think stage racers lose weight?

See Jeff Jones' post.

 

[Warren]

In article <[email protected]>, Kurgan Gringioni
<[email protected]> wrote:

> They mostly rely on bodyfat as fuel. Ask your coach.

On Wednesday I'll try to remember to ask him if your statement is true.

-WG