Is it true Lance Armstrong was cheating? - Page 2

Originally Posted by Pinarellojohn

Pre-cancer LA was at best an average pro cyclist. The transformation after cancer is impossible without some kind of assistance.

Originally Posted by Cycler6n

I heard a rumer of it. I hope he wasn't,

Originally Posted by Reed Rothchild

He lost maybe 5 pounds at most.

Originally Posted by limerickman

A lot of people could do with losing their baggage.

Originally Posted by hammonjj

Some think he was some don't. Funny thing about those that do think he is a cheat, they have no evidence. They assume because he was as good as he was, that he must have cheated.

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

Six of Armstrong's urine samples from the 1999 Tour were retrospectively tested and found to contain artificial EPO.

Four people have said that in the 1996 he admitted to using a wide range of doping products.

His personal assistent, Mike Anderson, found steroids in Armstrong's bathroom and helped Armstrong avoid OCC tests.

A team Postal soigneur, Emma O'Reilly, picked up doping products for Armstrong. She also helped him hide injection marks with make up.

Another Postal soigneur listened to Bruyneel brief the team about their hematocrits right before the 1999 Tour. All the riders were just under the 50% rule.

As related by Stephen Swart, in 1995 Motorola's riders made an agreement that everyone on the Tour squad would use EPO. Armstrong was the one that was pushing everyone to do it.

The IM messaging between Andreu and Vaughters show that Armstrong was pushing everyone on Postal to dope. He would tell the riders that everyone does it.

In a phone conversation with Greg Lemond, Armstrong said that using EPO was no big deal and everyone does EPO.

After denying to the press that he had a therapeutic use exemption (TUE) to use any drug in the 1999 Tour, Armstrong tested positive for a corticosteroid. The team, as related by Emma O'Reilly, created a backdated TUE that was accepted by the UCI. Sylvia Shenk, when she was running for president of the UCI, revealed that later in 1999, Armstrong made an under the table payment to the UCI of five hundred thousand dollars.

I could go on and on and on. Saying there is no evidence is either ignorant, naive, or both.

Originally Posted by Cipher

Personally I would be interested in anything additional you might have to list.

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

Six of Armstrong's urine samples from the 1999 Tour were retrospectively tested and found to contain artificial EPO.

Four people have said that in the 1996 he admitted to using a wide range of doping products.

His personal assistent, Mike Anderson, found steroids in Armstrong's bathroom and helped Armstrong avoid OCC tests.

A team Postal soigneur, Emma O'Reilly, picked up doping products for Armstrong. She also helped him hide injection marks with make up.

Another Postal soigneur listened to Bruyneel brief the team about their hematocrits right before the 1999 Tour. All the riders were just under the 50% rule.

As related by Stephen Swart, in 1995 Motorola's riders made an agreement that everyone on the Tour squad would use EPO. Armstrong was the one that was pushing everyone to do it.

The IM messaging between Andreu and Vaughters show that Armstrong was pushing everyone on Postal to dope. He would tell the riders that everyone does it.

In a phone conversation with Greg Lemond, Armstrong said that using EPO was no big deal and everyone does EPO.

After denying to the press that he had a therapeutic use exemption (TUE) to use any drug in the 1999 Tour, Armstrong tested positive for a corticosteroid. The team, as related by Emma O'Reilly, created a backdated TUE that was accepted by the UCI. Sylvia Shenk, when she was running for president of the UCI, revealed that later in 1999, Armstrong made an under the table payment to the UCI of five hundred thousand dollars.

I could go on and on and on. Saying there is no evidence is either ignorant, naive, or both.

This is just the stuff around the 1999 EPO positives:

1) The samples were tested anonymously. The lab had no knowledge of who each sample belonged to. I will defer to Ashenden on the validity of the testing procedure.

2) The identity of the samples' owners was only known by the UCI. The lab had no access to the doping forms then and they still do not.

3) Armstrong's samples were identified a long time after the testing was completed by a journalist who obtained Armstrong's doping forms from the UCI with Armstrong's permission.

4) Six of the positive samples turned out to be Armstrong's.

5) The pattern of the tested samples matches what would be expected as a rider injects EPO and the over the course of a few days it becomes harder to detect.

6) Armstrong was recently offered the chance to have the samples retested, including a DNA test to show that they were really his. He refused.

7) Postal's soigneur Emma O'Reilly was asked by Armstrong to dispose of syringes and other doping paraphernalia before the 1999 Tour de France. She also delivered drugs to Armstrong.

8) O'Reilly helped Armstrong cover up injection marks with make-up.

9) Another Postal soigneur, Ron Jongen, listened to Johan Bruyneel talking on the eve of the 1999 Tour de France about how all the riders' hematocrits were just under the 50% limit.

9) The chance of a person in the general population being at or near a 50% hematocrit is roughly 2%. Trained endurance athletes have an even smaller chance of being at 50%. Take 2/100 and raise it to the ninth power. The chance of nine riders having Hcts near 50% is close to the chance of winning the lottery.

10) On team Motorola, Armstrong encouraged his teammates to use EPO. He entered into an agreement with the other riders that all riders on the 1995 Tour de France squad would use EPO.

11) Armstrong encouraged members of Postal, like Andreu and Vaughters, to dope. He told his teammates that it was normal and everyone else was doing it.

12) When Armstrong joined Postal, he brought on board Johan Bruyneel, a man who was nicknamed the Hog because of the vast quantities of drugs he consumed while on team ONCE.

13) Team ONCE had a teamwide doping program since before 1998.

14) Dr. Prentice Steffan, who had refused to help Tyler Hamilton and Marty Jemisen dope, was removed from Team Postal.

15) Bruyneel brought doctors from Team Once to replace Steffan.

16) Armstrong had a long term relationship with Dr. Ferrari, an expert in the use of EPO.

17) Armstrong kept his relationship secret. It was only discovered when an Italian police investigation of Ferrari revealed that Armstrong was periodically travelling to Italy to see Dr. Ferrari.

18) When the rider Simeoni testified that Dr. Ferrari had helped him dope, Armstrong maintained the peloton's policy of omerta by punishing Simeoni during a race.

19) After he prevented Simeoni from being included in a break, Armstrong was seen to make a "zip the lips" gesture to other riders. Armstrong's teammates spit on Simeoni as he rolled past.

20) In a phone call to Greg Lemond about the revelations that he had been seeing Dr. Ferrari, Armstrong said that using EPO was no big deal and everyone did it.

21) In the 1999 Tour de France, Armstrong told Christophe Bassons, who was revealed to be the one clean athlete on Team Festina and had been speaking out about doping, to stop talking about doping. He encouraged Bassons to leave the sport.

22) As a way to explain his sudden rise, Armstrong constructed and maintained a lie that he had lost large amounts of weight. This was shown to be untrue during the SCA case.

Originally Posted by slyjackson

I guess you could go on since you are spreading "Internet Rumors" and nothing more. You have absolutely nothing to back up this garbage you have just posted. If any of this crap was true, the french would be all over it...If I were Lance, I would track you down and and have your rumor spreading ass in court and sue you for everything you have.. People like you are disgusting.

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

Sorry, sniffer, but it is not rumor. Most of it is taken from depositions. It is very easy to find any of the information I posted. It is detailed in many places, inlcuding books and newspaper articles. If you want to know what Armstrong's own teammates think about Armstrong and his doping then look up the transcript of the internet messaging converstion between Vaughters and Andreu.

Truth is not disgusting, and the truth is that Armstrong is a doper. The evidence is overwhelming. You would have to be a moron not to conclude that Armstrong doped.

Here's someone else for Armstrong to sue for telling the truth. In this interview, Michael Ashenden, one of the developers of the test for EPO, talks about Armstrong's six positives and concludes that Armstrong doped. Read it and weep.

Michael Ashenden | Velocity Nation - Bike racing culture, news and events

Dr. Ashenden says,

"There is no doubt in my mind these samples contain synthetic EPO, they belong to Lance Armstrong, and there's no conceivable way that I can see that a lab could've spiked them in a way that the data has presented itself. So there is no doubt in my mind he took EPO during the '99 Tour."

Originally Posted by slyjackson

S Do you realize that if only one third of the stuff you posted was true then Lance would have been stripped of his titles years ago. Looks like you may be the sniffer, but I'm not sure whos butt you are sniffing though.

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

That's your argument?? If he was doping then he would have been stripped. LOL. Get back to me when you have some facts. Right now it is obvious that you have nothing. Dispute anything that I wrote. Come on, smart guy. Let's see it. Dispute any of the points I made. Saddle sniffers are always the same. Ignorant and stupid. Not a winning combination.

Everything I wrote is the truth. A trivial amount of research can show this.

Sorry if your idol is a fraud. There is also no Santa Claus.

Originally Posted by slyjackson

So you basing your information on a website and calling it fact? is that all you got to base this on? I thought that you may have worked in the "piss" lab or something.
Do you realize that if only one third of the stuff you posted was true then Lance would have been stripped of his titles years ago. Looks like you may be the sniffer, but I'm not sure whos butt you are sniffing though.

My original post to you still stands....