Sore palate when running long distance

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]


Olaf,

I experienced this after some all out effort marathons and a 50 miler.

My experience was when drinking some orange juice, the feeling was
similar to pouring salt on an open wound. It was hard to swallow.

In the 50 I put it to the length of time out and the smog. In the
marathons, I put it to the effort and the harder breathing and probably
because I didn't relax my throat.

Hope that helps

In health and on the run,
Ozzie Gontang
Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975
Maintainer - rec.running FAQ
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
Mindful Running:
http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp


In article <[email protected]>, Olaf
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi all runners out there!
>
> I wonder if anyone out there has experienced the same as I have while
> running long distances, like more than 25k. The last two marathons I
> experienced the same stange soreness in my palate. When just breathing
> or drinking I did not feel much at all but when eating (even when
> eating something very soft like a ripe banana) the palate hurts.
> Am I the only one? And does anyone know why this is so? Is it because
> of ketons produced when you run out of carbohydrates and the body
> begins buring fat (my own guess)?
>
> best regards/
> Olaf

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Olaf) wrote:

> When just breathing
> or drinking I did not feel much at all but when eating (even when
> eating something very soft like a ripe banana) the palate hurts.
> Am I the only one? And does anyone know why this is so? Is it because
> of ketons produced when you run out of carbohydrates and the body
> begins buring fat (my own guess)?

I've not had the experience due to running, but I have had it on a
number of occassions. I have a long history of sinus infections,
surgery, and continuing sinus trouble. Whenever I have a low grade
infection or a lot of drainage buildup in the area above the soft palate
I get the tenderness it sounds like you are describing.

I believe the feeling is an irritation to the tissues in the area at the
very back of the nasal passage before it enters the throat. A gentle
wash of warm, mild salt water (1/8 to 1/4 tsp salt into 1 cup 100F+/-
water) through the nostrils and/or gargling with the solution two or
three times a day will often help.

I'm not sure how running might trigger such discomfort... perhaps an
allergen or dry air...

<< I have a long history of sinus infections,
surgery, and continuing sinus trouble. >>

Speak to me,
Please,
You.
That surgery,
Sinus voiding,
Did it work?
Sing a chaconne
Pour moi?
Please,
Dearest.
Speak thy name,
Grant me
Knowledge.

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected]entary (Brilliant One) wrote:

> << I have a long history of sinus infections,
> surgery, and continuing sinus trouble. >>
>
> Speak to me,
> Please,
> You.
> That surgery,
> Sinus voiding,
> Did it work?

Worked very well. I suffered almost daily, year-round pressure in my
cheeks and behind my eyes. My upper molars hurt often too, as the tooth
roots extend upwards very near the sinus cavities in the cheeks. The
pressure on my eyes would cause dizzyness which often led to
migraine-like headaches during which I would throw up. Very unpleasant
way of existing and I lived on pseudoephedrine and aspirin (upwards of
(12) 325mg tabs per day) which caused a bit of ringing in the ears. and
Corticosteroids and antihisitmines, prescribed or OTC, did nothing to
stop the production - it seemed the only relief came with attempting to
open the passages with pseudoE - and even then I didn't feel "good".

After years of this, I finally was referred to a well-respected surgeon
who agreed that I was a good candidate for surgery to enlarge the sinus
openings in the cheeks and clear some of the obstructing nasal structure
at the bridge of the nose. The surgery, back in '98, solved about 90% of
the problems. I still suffer from chronic pressure and infection in the
sinus cavities behind the eyebrows but at least it only affects me when
the weather makes major changes in a short period of time plus one or
two bouts of antibiotic-requiring infection per year. Surgeon last told
me a few years back that the risks of surgery in this area was still
very high for major complications and to hold out for medi-tech
advancements.

As long as the openings to the sinus cavities are open, rinsing the
nasal passages with saline can really help keep things open and flowing
in there - spicy foods containing curry and hot peppers help too - and
that's the key to keeping infections from taking hold.

Snot quite the normal rec.R fare and probly more than you wanted to
know, eh?

<< Snot quite the normal rec.R fare and probly more than you wanted to
know, eh? >>

Close enough for jazz!
Blow it, baby!

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

Can you run a long race only breathing through your nose?
For runs under an hour I run fast enough where I want to breathe through
both nose and mouth. But my long run pace is slow enough just for
nose breathing. You might want to experiement.

[email protected] (rick++) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Can you run a long race only breathing through your nose?
>
I bet you can do it breathing through your ****? Eh Rick?

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]

In article <[email protected]>, rick++
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Can you run a long race only breathing through your nose?
> For runs under an hour I run fast enough where I want to breathe through
> both nose and mouth. But my long run pace is slow enough just for
> nose breathing. You might want to experiement.

Some info on nose breathing from a rec.running dialogue:


[email protected], Heiz <[email protected]>

I had talked to a number of pulmonary researchers over the years. What
I learned from them was the nose warms the air we breathe, moisturizes
the air we breathe and purifies the air we breathe. It took a question
asking me to prove what I had stated without scientific proof.

Ozzie



A Dialogue on Breathing: Some science to aid in what we often know
intuitively.
C.2001 Austin "Ozzie" Gontang, Ph.D., Patrick Aro, and Andrew Heiz


Thanks to Andrew and Patrick for creating the opporutnity to gain a
better understanding and some scientific information about the role of
nasal breathing:

Ozzie Gontang made an assumptive statement wrote:
>
>
> Breathing through the nose on the inhalation:
> 1. Warms the air
> 2. Moisturizes the air
> 3. Purifies the air

Andrew rightfully queried:

Please explain all the scientific facts behind these statements!


Patrick responded from the text on Body Structures and Functions:

"Protruding into the nasal cavity are three turbinate, or nasal conchae
bones. These three scroll-like bones (superior, middle, and inferior
concha) divide the large nasal cavity in three narrow passageways. The
turbinates increase the surface area of the nasal cavity causing
turbulence in the flowing air. This causes the air to move in various
directions before exiting the nasal cavity. As it moves through the
nasal cavity, air is being filtered of dust and dirt particles by the
mucous membranes lining the conchal and nasal cavity. The air is also
moistened by the mucus and by blood vessels which supply the nasal
cavity ... by the time air reaches the lungs, it has been warmed,
moistened, and filtered." (Scott and Fong, Body Structures and
Functions 9th ed., 1997)


Andrew continued his query

How can you say that nose breathing moisturizes the air? Again the
argument can be made that since there is more saliva in your mouth than
snot in your nose the air coming in through your mouth is in contact
with more moisture.

But beyond either of these arguments what is the role of moisturizing
air in exercise breathing. And how much moisturization is necessary?

Patrick responds using:

Author(s): Godfrey, Richard.
Title: The nose and the lower airways.
Source: Lancet (North American edition) v. 343 (Apr. 23 '94)
p. 991-2

Abstract: "The role of the nose and lower airways in respiration
is examined. The nose can increase the temperature of inspired air by
as much as 25(degree)C between external nares and nasopharynx; this is
because of
the nose's rich blood supply with plentiful arteriovenous anastomoses.
The lower airways are poor at warming and humidifying air in comparison
with the nose, and bronchoconstriction may result from the temporary
development of hyperosmolarity in their walls..."

Author(s): Morton AR et al.
Title: Comparison of maximal oxygen consumption with oral and nasal
breathing.
Source: Aust J Sci Med Sport (AUSTRALIAN JOURNAL OF SCIENCE AND
MEDICINE IN SPORT) 1995 Sep; 27 (3): 51-5 Journal Code: B9S

Abstract: " The major cause of exercise-induced asthma (EIA) is
thought to be the drying and cooling of the airways during the
'conditioning' of the inspired air. Nasal breathing increases the
respiratory system's ability to warm and humidi[fy] the inspired air
compared to oral breathing and reduces the drying and cooling effects
of
the increased ventilation during exercise. This will reduce the
severity of EIA provoked by a given intensity and duration of exercise.
The purpose of the study was to determine the exercise intensity (%VO2
max) at which healthy subjects, free from respiratory disease, could
perform while breathing through the nose-only and to compare this with
mouth-only and mouth plus nose breathing."

This study found only a 3% difference in tidal volume (the volume of
air inhaled and exhaled in one cycle) between nasal only and mouth only
breathing during exercise. Average tidal volume is about 500 ml, so
the difference works out to be about 15 ml. Since the residual volume,
the amount of air that cannot be voluntarily expelled from the lungs,
is about 1500 ml allowing continuous exchange of gasses between
breaths, the 15 ml difference seems to be physiologically
insignificant. Granted, the study did not research the ability or
inability of an athlete to reach peak performance while nasal only
breathing, however, it strongly suggests that there are benefits to
nasal only or a combination of nasal and mouth breathing.


Andrew finally adds:

And the fact of the matter is there comes a point that breathing in
through the nose is not enough. So sooner or later the mouth is going
to have the last word (excuse the pun). Or if it doesn't then
performance will be at a reduced rate.


Patrick concludes:

Yes, I agree. There is a level of exertion that seems to call for
additional or alternative routes of inhalation. However, the study
above demonstrated that a recreational runner can achieve and sustain
the "fat burning zone" by nose only breathing. ExcUSE the pun? I'd
much rather USE one.

As others have suggested and you have already done, experiment with it.
If it doesn't work for you, well that's just one more piece of
knowledge gained.

Sorry for droning.

Peace as Well,
Patrick

Ozzie adds:

Thank you Andrew and Patrick for a lovely and informative dialogue
where we all learned a great deal about breathing through the nose and
mouth, the benefits of nasal breathing, and the power and the spirit of
collegiality when it comes to educating ourselves.

As Andrew and Patrick have shown so well, don't assume anything. Even
the best of science when more information and research are done has
been proved to be incorrect because we didn't know what we know now.
So Science, from the Latin meaning knowledge, keeps on growing. And
with it the amazing aquisitive and inquisitive minds of rec.running.

"DadatHome" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected]entary (Brilliant One) wrote:
>
>> << I have a long history of sinus infections,
>> surgery, and continuing sinus trouble. >>
>>
>> Speak to me,
>> Please,
>> You.
>> That surgery,
>> Sinus voiding,
>> Did it work?
>
> Worked very well. I suffered almost daily, year-round pressure in my
> cheeks and behind my eyes. My upper molars hurt often too, as the tooth
> roots extend upwards very near the sinus cavities in the cheeks. The
> pressure on my eyes would cause dizzyness which often led to
> migraine-like headaches during which I would throw up. Very unpleasant
> way of existing and I lived on pseudoephedrine and aspirin (upwards of
> (12) 325mg tabs per day) which caused a bit of ringing in the ears. and
> Corticosteroids and antihisitmines, prescribed or OTC, did nothing to
> stop the production - it seemed the only relief came with attempting to
> open the passages with pseudoE - and even then I didn't feel "good".
>

Hi I'm a new poster here, so pardon me for jumping in. From 1990 until 2000,
I had many of the same symptoms - constant stuffiness, pain in my palate and
upper teeth, especially my canines and molars. In order to breathe, I had to
sleep with my mouth open. I talked with a nasally tone. It was hell to be me
and hell to be with me (my DH is a saint). Throughout the 90's I went to my
GP and later my ENT guy and was put on many rounds of antibiotics which
curiously made the situation worse (this should've been a clue). Even though
my allergies tests came back negative the diagnosis was allergies. I was
put on a couple types of corticosteroid spray and various sorts of
antihistamines and allergy medicines none of which helped.

The cure was unexpected and, let me tell you, absolutely damn delightful.
In 2000, I went to my doctor for treatment of toe-nail fungus and was put on
an oral anti-fungal treatment (Lotrimin/Clotrimazole). This sounds gross but
within a week, the inner lining of my nasal/sinus cavities sloughed off and
my chronic sinus problem was gone never to return (****!). Talking with my
doctor, he concluded that all along I must have had a fungal infection of my
sinus ("Athletes Nose?"). I <heart> Lotrimin.

Chris in lovely Ithaca, NY

"Chris Jung" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi I'm a new poster here, so pardon me for jumping in.

We'll let it go this time, but don't let it happen again, or as the
moderator I'll have to ban you for life.

>From 1990 until 2000,
> I had many of the same symptoms - constant stuffiness, pain in my palate and
> upper teeth, especially my canines and molars. In order to breathe, I had to
> sleep with my mouth open. I talked with a nasally tone. It was hell to be me
> and hell to be with me (my DH is a saint).

"DH"? **** Holder? Dumb Hoe? Clue us in (unless it's one of those "gay
things", then I'd rather not know.)

> The cure was unexpected and, let me tell you, absolutely damn delightful.

Sex?

> In 2000, I went to my doctor for treatment of toe-nail fungus and was put on
> an oral anti-fungal treatment (Lotrimin/Clotrimazole). This sounds gross but
> within a week, the inner lining of my nasal/sinus cavities sloughed off and
> my chronic sinus problem was gone never to return (****!). Talking with my
> doctor, he concluded that all along I must have had a fungal infection of my
> sinus ("Athletes Nose?"). I <heart> Lotrimin.
>
> Chris in lovely Ithaca, NY

In "lovely" ithaca? Nevermind the "DH" question, I think I already
know the answer.

I was so busy trolling I forgot my serious question. Any idea how you
got a fungus infection in your nose? Did you get toe jam up there or
something?

In article <[email protected]>,
"Chris Jung" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Throughout the 90's I went to my
> GP and later my ENT guy and was put on many rounds of antibiotics which
> curiously made the situation worse (this should've been a clue). Even though
> my allergies tests came back negative the diagnosis was allergies. I was
> put on a couple types of corticosteroid spray and various sorts of
> antihistamines and allergy medicines none of which helped.

I know what that's like.

> The cure was unexpected and, let me tell you, absolutely damn delightful.
> In 2000, I went to my doctor for treatment of toe-nail fungus and was put on
> an oral anti-fungal treatment (Lotrimin/Clotrimazole). This sounds gross but
> within a week, the inner lining of my nasal/sinus cavities sloughed off and
> my chronic sinus problem was gone never to return (****!). Talking with my
> doctor, he concluded that all along I must have had a fungal infection of my
> sinus ("Athletes Nose?"). I <heart> Lotrimin.

I'm going to read up more on this and perhaps discuss it with my doc. I
had heard something about fungal sinus infections a few years back but
didn't really pay a whole lot of attention for some reason. Thanks.

<< I <heart> Lotrimin. >>

Now, just what does that mean?
That heart, there?

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Sly Piper) wrote:

> Any idea how you
> got a fungus infection in your nose? Did you get toe jam up there or
> something?

Nothing so elegant.
______
Mayo Clinic Rochester

Thursday, September 09, 1999

Mayo Clinic Study Implicates Fungus as Cause of Chronic Sinusitis

ROCHESTER, MINN. -- Mayo Clinic researchers say they have found the
cause of most chronic sinus infections -- an immune system response to
fungus. They say this discovery opens the door to the first effective
treatment for this problem, the most common chronic disease in the
United States. (See graph.)

An estimated 37 million people in the United States suffer from chronic
sinusitis, an inflammation of the membranes of the nose and sinus
cavity. Its incidence has been increasing steadily over the last decade.
Common symptoms are runny nose, nasal congestion, loss of smell and
headaches. Frequently the chronic inflammation leads to polyps, small
growths in the nasal passages which hinder breathing.

"Up to now, the cause of chronic sinusitis has not been known," say the
Mayo researchers: Drs. David Sherris, Eugene Kern and Jens Ponikau ,
Mayo Clinic ear, nose and throat specialists. Their report appears in
the September issue of the journal Mayo Clinic Proceedings.

"Fungus allergy was thought to be involved in less than ten percent of
cases," says Dr. Sherris. "Our studies indicate that, in fact, fungus is
likely the cause of nearly all of these problems. And it is not an
allergic reaction, but an immune reaction."

The researchers studied 210 patients with chronic sinusitis. Using new
methods of collecting and testing mucus from the nose, they discovered
fungus in 96 percent of the patients' mucus. They identified a total of
40 different kinds of fungi in these patients, with an average of 2.7
kinds per patient.

In a subset of 101 patients who had surgery to remove nasal polyps, the
researchers found eosinophils (a type of white blood cell activated by
the body's immune system) in the nasal tissue and mucus of 96 percent of
the patients.

The results, the researchers say, clearly portray a disease process in
which, in sensitive individuals, the body's immune system sends
eosinophils to attack fungi and the eosinophils irritate the membranes
in the nose. As long as fungi remain, so will the irritation.

"This a potential breakthrough that offers great hope for the millions
of people who suffer from this problem," says Dr. Kern. "We can now
begin to treat the cause of the problem instead of the symptoms."

More research is underway at Mayo Clinic to confirm that the immune
response to the fungus is the cause of the sinus inflammation. The
researchers are also working with pharmaceutical companies to set up
trials to test medications to control the fungus. They estimate that it
will be at least two years before a treatment will be widely available.

The researchers distinguish chronic sinusitis -- sinusitis that lasts
three months or longer -- from acute sinusitis, which lasts a month or
less. They say that the cause of the acute condition is usually a
bacterial infection.

Antibiotics and over-the-counter decongestants are widely used to treat
chronic sinusitis. In most cases, antibiotics are not effective for
chronic sinusitis because they target bacteria, not fungi. The
over-the-counter drugs may offer some relief of symptoms, but they have
no effect on the inflammation.

"Medications haven't worked for chronic sinusitis because we didn't know
what the cause of the problem was," says Dr. Ponikau. "Finally we are on
the trail of a treatment that may actually work."

Thousands of kinds of single-cell fungi (molds and yeasts) are found
everywhere in the world. Fungal spores (the reproductive part of the
organism) become airborne like pollen. Some people develop allergies to
fungi. The new evidence from the Mayo study suggests that many people
also develop a different kind of immune system response.
--
"To know the world intimately is the beginning of caring."
-- Ann Hayman Zwinger