admitting defeat: suggestions on platform pedals?

Monique Y. Herman wrote:
> So um ... when I made my debut on this newsgroup, it was to ask whether I should stick with
> clipless while learning the fine art of mountain biking. I got lots of opinions and eventually
> decided to stick with what I had.
>
> Time to eat crow =)
<snip>

Don't feel bad about deciding to switch back to platforms. Mountain biking is about fun,
right? If your clipless pedals were a major and ongoing source of stress, you were right to
dump 'em. I agree with Superslinky's recommendation:
http://www.cambriabike.com/pedals/ringle_zu_zu_dh_pedal.htm These are the pedals my daughter
uses and they seem to work well. Plenty grippy, but if you do happen to slip or get bounced
off the pedals, they won't bite you *too* deeply. When you make your decision, always keep
in mind how that pedal might feel if it hits you in the shin... As to shoes, a pair of Vans
works nicely for my daughter. However, if you've had problems in the past with ankle or arch
pain you might want to look for something stiffer.

Kathleen

I'm in the same boat. I like the clipless pedals but when it looks like I'm not going to make it I
still can't seem to get out fast enough. Riding around with the pedal on my instep isn't a very good
solution either.

I think I'm going to try a single sided pedal with a decent sized cage. If it turns out that it's
too much of a pain to flip the pedals, I'll put them on my road bike.

Steve.

Monique Y. Herman wrote:
> So um ... when I made my debut on this newsgroup, it was to ask whether I should stick with
> clipless while learning the fine art of mountain biking. I got lots of opinions and eventually
> decided to stick with what I had.
>
> Time to eat crow =)
>
> I refuse to side with either the clipless or the platform enthusiasts -- all I know is that I am
> having trouble learning both how to attack a mountain and how to deal with clipless pedals all at
> once. I love the feeling of security on clipless pedals ... unless of course I'm going uphill (and
> afraid I won't make it to the top) ... or I'm going over anything rocky at all ... or ... or ...
>
> The killing blow today was the rain. I did fine, actually, but trying to balance my arches on
> slick-wet pedals and somehow keep them from clipping in ... ugh. Clipless no doubt have great
> grip, but I'm out of them too much to take advantage of it.
>
> I suspect I may go back to clipless when all is said and done, but that may be months or years
> from now. Or never. Just don't know.
>
> Okay, all that being said, a question for you platform pedal enthusiasts: What should I be looking
> for? Can you give me some links to your faves? How about "good deals" that might not be ideal but
> are a pretty good mix of cost and utility?
>
> I live near the front range in Colorado. I don't expect to see much in the way of mud or wetness
> when I'm biking, if that matters in pedal choice. I'm riding a full-suspension bike, if that
> matters.
>
> Also, Mr. Super Slinky posted the following:

Get platforms that look like this:
>
> http://www.cambriabike.com/pedals/ringle_zu_zu_dh_pedal.htm
>
> Not ones that look like this:
>
> http://www.cambriabike.com/pedals/wtb_grease_guard_momentum_pedal.htm

Click to expand...

>
> What's the difference? This newbie doesn't see much.
>
> Also, my fiance suggested that the following pedal would be grippier than the one Slinky pointed
> out, and therefore better. Thoughts?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/kn0y
>
> (Nashbar Big Mashers)
>
> Finally, do I need special biking shoes for better grip on platform pedals, or are your basic
> sneakers better?
>
> Thanks, all, for any suggestions you may be able to make =)

RE/
>Finally, do I need special biking shoes for better grip on platform pedals, or are your basic
>sneakers better?
>
>Thanks, all, for any suggestions you may be able to make =)

I tried Azonic's at about eighty bucks, but now I'm using Haro magnesiums at about half that. The
Haros seem lighter and work as well or better.

For shoes, you want something with a reasonably stiff sole, but not with lugs - which mess up your
foot alignment as the spikes on the pedals find their way into the grooves between lugs.

Just plain old Docksiders work really well - but wear out way fast.

OTOH the Nike lightweight hiking shoes I'm using now have lasted me almost two years so far.
-----------------------
PeteCresswell

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 18:01:57 -0500, Kathleen <[email protected]> penned:
>
> Don't feel bad about deciding to switch back to platforms. Mountain biking is about fun,
> right? If your clipless pedals were a major and ongoing source of stress, you were right to
> dump 'em.

Fun?!?!?! This is supposed to be fun??

=P

At the moment it seems to be more about challenge and fitness (or lack thereof) than fun, but I
think it'll be a bit like any other sport for
me ... I can't have fun till I reach a certain level of competence that makes up for the frustration
of not being perfect. (Yes, Type A fits me perfectly, why do you ask?)

As I said, I can see some benefit to clipless and would like to try them again ... after I feel more
confident skidding up and down rocks, rolling along at slow speeds, etc.

> I agree with Superslinky's recommendation:
> http://www.cambriabike.com/pedals/ringle_zu_zu_dh_pedal.htm These are the pedals my daughter
> uses and they seem to work well. Plenty grippy, but if you do happen to slip or get bounced
> off the pedals, they won't bite you *too* deeply. When you make your decision, always keep
> in mind how that pedal might feel if it hits you in the shin...

Is the grippiness purely from the little metal bits, or is it also a function of the pedal material?
Is that hard plastic, hard rubber, or slightly soft rubber?

> As to shoes, a pair of Vans works nicely for my daughter. However, if you've had problems in
> the past with ankle or arch pain you might want to look for something stiffer.

My shimano shoes are really comfy ... but my fiance tells me they will get in the way of my traction
on the platforms =/ Vans would probably be a bit floppy for me, but I have various sneakers that are
at least as breathable as my shimanos.

Thanks for the input =)

--
monique

My pointless ramblings: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/phorum/index.php?f=6

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 23:32:40 GMT, (Pete Cresswell) <[email protected]> penned:
> RE/
>>Finally, do I need special biking shoes for better grip on platform pedals, or are your basic
>>sneakers better?
>>
>>Thanks, all, for any suggestions you may be able to make =)
>
> I tried Azonic's at about eighty bucks, but now I'm using Haro magnesiums at about half that. The
> Haros seem lighter and work as well or better.
>
> For shoes, you want something with a reasonably stiff sole, but not with lugs - which mess up your
> foot alignment as the spikes on the pedals find their way into the grooves between lugs.
>
> Just plain old Docksiders work really well - but wear out way fast.
>
> OTOH the Nike lightweight hiking shoes I'm using now have lasted me almost two years so far.
> -----------------------
> PeteCresswell

I see the magnesiums here: http://www.harobikes.com/parts/?CFG=21&S_CatID=Pedals

Do you use the big-block or small? Do you happen to know what the difference is between the pro and
expert lines?

Is magnesium used just for the weight? If so, does that affect their structural integrity?

Ooh, lightweight hiking shoes ... I've been looking for an excuse to get some of those, anyway ...

--
monique

My pointless ramblings: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/phorum/index.php?f=6

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 15:48:20 -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote:

> I refuse to side with either the clipless or the platform enthusiasts -- all I know is that I am
> having trouble learning both how to attack a mountain and how to deal with clipless pedals all at
> once. I love the feeling of security on clipless pedals ... unless of course I'm going uphill (and
> afraid I won't make it to the top) ... or I'm going over anything rocky at all ... or ... or ...

My bike came with clipless, and I have yet to try them. A pleasing combination of friends + familiar
trail + correct planetary alignment has yet to occur. ;D

> Also, Mr. Super Slinky posted the following:

Get platforms that look like this:
>
> http://www.cambriabike.com/pedals/ringle_zu_zu_dh_pedal.htm
>
> Not ones that look like this:
>
> http://www.cambriabike.com/pedals/wtb_grease_guard_momentum_pedal.htm

Click to expand...

>
> What's the difference? This newbie doesn't see much.

Little round teeth on the first one, big nasty pointy teeth on the second.

> Also, my fiance suggested that the following pedal would be grippier than the one Slinky pointed
> out, and therefore better. Thoughts?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/kn0y
>
> (Nashbar Big Mashers)

Even bigger, nastier pointier teeth.

Personally: I have not had much luck riding platforms without the big nasty pointy teeth. My feet
tend to slide around. It wasn't the shoes, I tried them all with the same shoes. I currently have
the "Nashbar Cage Pedal", which I'm reasonably happy with.

A specific problem I had with some platforms: (don't remember the name, sorry, but they actually
look very similar to the "Nashbar Cage Pedal" I'm using now.) they only had little teeth around the
edge, and then the inside of the pedal was smooth metal. The little teeth didn't hold my shoe, and I
slid all over the place. Hated it.

On the other hand, a picture of my shins would probably scare you into using your clipless. Between
the poison ivy scars and the bike pedal scars, they're pretty messy. Get ready for some dings from
those teeth.

> Finally, do I need special biking shoes for better grip on platform pedals, or are your basic
> sneakers better?

I used to ride in a pair of low-cut lightweight hikers. I bought shoes with plates (for the cleats)
and I've been riding in them. Neither pair really fits that great, but I would prefer the
lightweight hikers if they fit better. My riding buddy MacDaddy wears old sneakers, but he doesn't
spend as much time as I do pushing the bike. My recommendation would be wear something that fits,
but that has a relatively small toe box. That will make it easier to get in & out of the cages.

HTH

gabrielle

RE/
>
>Personally: I have not had much luck riding platforms without the big nasty pointy teeth.

The teeth aren't that bad on BMX pedals because they're flat instead of pointed. You'll lose a
little blood, but it's more of a scrape than a puncture.

Worst pedal laceration I ever got was from the "normal" pedals with the little upward protrusions at
the edge of the cage. The wound seemed to go in about
1/4 inch and then spread around underneath for about an inch....the thing spurted and wept yellow
fluid for almost a week.. Yecch.
-----------------------
PeteCresswell

RE/
>Do you use the big-block or small? Do you happen to know what the difference is between the pro and
>expert lines?
>
>Is magnesium used just for the weight? If so, does that affect their structural integrity?

I use the big-block (size 15's....).

Dunno what the diff between pro/expert is, but would look for things like weight, threaded vs
non-threaded spikes, and bearing adjustability/servicability.

I weigh about 220# and have been riding the mags for about three years now. Broke a crank and
cracked a frame in that time, but no problem with the pedals.
-----------------------
PeteCresswell

RE/
>Do you use the big-block or small?

Just one more thought on big/small: without toe clips, there's always a certain amoung of doubt as
to exactly where your foot is - and if it's a little off-center and you go across a long enough
stretch of rough ground your foot *can* bounce off the pedal. I figure the bigger the pedal, the
less chance of losing all contact with it.
-----------------------
PeteCresswell

On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 22:48:20 -0000, Monique Y. Herman wrote:

> Finally, do I need special biking shoes for better grip on platform pedals, or are your basic
> sneakers better?

I never could stand open platforms. My feet were always coming off of them. I preferred Power Grips,
which work like toe clips except you can twist your foot and tighten the grip. The beauty of them
is, if you don't twist your foot, they're loose and getting out is a breeze. They have the same
disadvantage of toe clips, that they are always on the bottom of the pedal when you want to get into
them. Of course, with those or toeclips you can just ride it like an open platform until you can
flip it over to get in, but it always freaked me out that I might catch them on something.

Anyway, as shoes go - I used tennis shoes for awhile, until I found some freaky looking leather
shoes at Marshalls that had very stiff soles. I liked those a whole lot better. After I switched to
clipless, I gave them to a friend and he liked them as well. Stiff soles aren't necessary, but
they're nice.

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

Monique Y. Herman said...

> Also, Mr. Super Slinky posted the following:

Get platforms that look like this:
>
> http://www.cambriabike.com/pedals/ringle_zu_zu_dh_pedal.htm
>
> Not ones that look like this:
>
> http://www.cambriabike.com/pedals/wtb_grease_guard_momentum_pedal.htm

Click to expand...

>
> What's the difference? This newbie doesn't see much.

The grip you get from caged pedals doesn't compare to what you get from the cast pedals and their
pegs, but they are a little lighter. But it isn't just grip. The big platforms just feel so much
better under the feet and inspire more confidence. A believe a few people here use half toe clips
with their platforms. I hated toe clips the brief time I used them, because weight of the clip made
sure the pedal would be pointing down whenever I tried to get into them.

To answer another of your questions in a different post, the cast pedals I refer to, like the Zu Zu,
are made from cast aluminum or magnesium. The grip is due to the pegs.

> Also, my fiance suggested that the following pedal would be grippier than the one Slinky pointed
> out, and therefore better. Thoughts?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/kn0y

I doubt that the grip would be any better than the cast pedals and it isn't any lighter. It's a
bargain priced house brand job, so the quality is going to be mediocre at best. I'm not judging the
quality of these pedals because I don't own them, but I have bought some worthless pedals before
looking for a bargain. The bearings can get loose and rough in a hurry and it may even fall apart.
The biggest drawback of platforms is that they can scrape up your legs in an accident. These look
like they would be murder. The Zu Zus and a few others have flat round pegs and will be easier on
your shins than these or the many other platforms that use allen screws for pegs. I highly recommend
that you look for a set that has the round flat topped pegs. They can still give you a good scrape,
but it won't be quite as bad.

> (Nashbar Big Mashers)
>
> Finally, do I need special biking shoes for better grip on platform pedals, or are your basic
> sneakers better?
>
> Thanks, all, for any suggestions you may be able to make =)

For me, that is one of the best things about platforms. No special shoes are needed. Your clipless
shoes should be OK if you take off the cleats. I believe there are a few shoes out there that are
made for platforms, but I don't know who makes them. Maybe Vans. An old pair of running shoes work
fine for me.

On 8 Sep 2003 02:11:19 GMT, BB <[email protected]> penned:
> On Sun, 07 Sep 2003 22:48:20 -0000, Monique Y. Herman wrote:
>
>> Finally, do I need special biking shoes for better grip on platform pedals, or are your basic
>> sneakers better?
>
> I never could stand open platforms. My feet were always coming off of them. I preferred Power
> Grips, which work like toe clips except you can twist your foot and tighten the grip. The beauty
> of them is, if you don't twist your foot, they're loose and getting out is a breeze. They have the
> same disadvantage of toe clips, that they are always on the bottom of the pedal when you want to
> get into them. Of course, with those or toeclips you can just ride it like an open platform until
> you can flip it over to get in, but it always freaked me out that I might catch them on something.

Found them on cambriabike.com ... for now, I just want simple, evenly weighted, no thought involved.
Agreed on the fear of snagging one of those straps on god-knows-what.

> Anyway, as shoes go - I used tennis shoes for awhile, until I found some freaky looking leather
> shoes at Marshalls that had very stiff soles. I liked those a whole lot better. After I switched
> to clipless, I gave them to a friend and he liked them as well. Stiff soles aren't necessary, but
> they're nice.

I've heard before that stiff soles are good -- why is that?

--
monique

My pointless ramblings: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/phorum/index.php?f=6

http://www.wtb.com/momentum_flat.html

I used those on my Giant Rainier and worked well. I spent so much time screwing with clipless,
adjusting them here and there, that it was ruining my rides. These pedals are quite grippy and very
easy to maintain.

On 08 Sep 2003 02:40:30 GMT, MTBScottie wrote:
> http://www.wtb.com/momentum_flat.html
>
> I used those on my Giant Rainier and worked well. I spent so much time screwing with clipless,
> adjusting them here and there, that it was ruining my rides. These pedals are quite grippy and
> very easy to maintain.

You can buy pedals that don't have a brand name on them, and it'll probably cost less. I got a
really nice set at Performance that looks just like those (except no black paint).

I'm still trying to figure out why you spent so much time "screwing" with your pedals. I've adjusted
mine two or three times in six years.

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 02:30:44 -0000, Monique Y. Herman wrote:

> I've heard before that stiff soles are good -- why is that?

If the soles are really soft (like tennie-sneaks), my feet would get a little sore where the sides
of the pedals dug in. I think the main thing is the stiffer soles might help distribute more of the
power directly to the pedal, rather than just forcing the sole to sag around the pedal.

From what I've seen, Merrill makes some nice stiff-soled shoes. And they'll be good for hiking or
something when you decide to go back to the clipless.

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

Monique Y. Herman said...

> I see the magnesiums here: http://www.harobikes.com/parts/?CFG=21&S_CatID=Pedals
>
> Do you use the big-block or small? Do you happen to know what the difference is between the pro
> and expert lines?
>
> Is magnesium used just for the weight? If so, does that affect their structural integrity?
>
> Ooh, lightweight hiking shoes ... I've been looking for an excuse to get some of those, anyway ...

Magnesium is for weight. If you want the lightest platforms available go to www.supergo.com and look
at the Weyless MG-1.

"Monique Y. Herman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I live near the front range in Colorado.

What town? My wife and I are in Fort Collins.

Glenn D.

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 02:47:12 GMT, Super Slinky <[email protected]> penned:
> Monique Y. Herman said...
>
>> I see the magnesiums here: http://www.harobikes.com/parts/?CFG=21&S_CatID=Pedals
>>
>> Do you use the big-block or small? Do you happen to know what the difference is between the pro
>> and expert lines?
>>
>> Is magnesium used just for the weight? If so, does that affect their structural integrity?
>>
>> Ooh, lightweight hiking shoes ... I've been looking for an excuse to get some of those,
>> anyway ...
>
> Magnesium is for weight. If you want the lightest platforms available go to www.supergo.com and
> look at the Weyless MG-1.

*giggle* Already posted asking about these =)

I'm not sure how much I care about weight, but they aren't terribly much more expensive than the
zuzus mentioned before, and somehow their build just "looks" more solid to me (not that I have any
clue at all when it comes to these things).

Is there a drawback to magnesium, other than possibly price?

--
monique

My pointless ramblings: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/phorum/index.php?f=6

> Is there a drawback to magnesium, other than possibly price?
>
> --
> monique

Only if they catch on fire.

Magnesium is excellent material for many bike parts; my stem is made out of magnesium.
--
Slacker