1995 Masi 3Volumetrica HELP!

[DLArismendi]

Hello all, I have a 1995 Masi 3Volumetrica with all Campagnolo Chorus for my group set. I have put quite a few thousand miles on it since I have inherited it from my father a year ago and I have had one problem that I have never been able to fix myself. I would like to fix the issue myself to further enhance my understanding of the bike. So here is the problem: Everytime I shift into the higher gear on my front gears the front derailer lets the chain go right past the big gear and i lose the chain while shifting. Now, I tried to adjust the derailer manually but there is such small margin of error between the seat tube and my crank arm that when I do move the derailer even a small amount the crank will start nicking it as it goes by... what am I doing wrong? or if this is a hardware issue what do I need to replace or fix?

Thank You for reading this somewhat long post and I hope it all makes sense.

 

[baphometcycles]

Sounds like something is bent, but its hard to say without pictures; could you provide pictures taken from above and behind with the chain and derailleur in the small and large chainring?

 

[alfeng]

Hello all, I have a 1995 Masi 3Volumetrica with all Campagnolo Chorus for my group set. I have put quite a few thousand miles on it since I have inherited it from my father a year ago and I have had one problem that I have never been able to fix myself. I would like to fix the issue myself to further enhance my understanding of the bike. So here is the problem: Everytime I shift into the higher gear on my front gears the front derailer lets the chain go right past the big gear and i lose the chain while shifting. Now, I tried to adjust the derailer manually but there is such small margin of error between the seat tube and my crank arm that when I do move the derailer even a small amount the crank will start nicking it as it goes by... what am I doing wrong? or if this is a hardware issue what do I need to replace or fix?

Thank You for reading this somewhat long post and I hope it all makes sense.

Specifically, which/what chain are you using?

Does the bike have INDEXED shifting, or FRICTION shifting?

 

[Peter@vecchios]

Hello all, I have a 1995 Masi 3Volumetrica with all Campagnolo Chorus for my group set. I have put quite a few thousand miles on it since I have inherited it from my father a year ago and I have had one problem that I have never been able to fix myself. I would like to fix the issue myself to further enhance my understanding of the bike. So here is the problem: Everytime I shift into the higher gear on my front gears the front derailer lets the chain go right past the big gear and i lose the chain while shifting. Now, I tried to adjust the derailer manually but there is such small margin of error between the seat tube and my crank arm that when I do move the derailer even a small amount the crank will start nicking it as it goes by... what am I doing wrong? or if this is a hardware issue what do I need to replace or fix?

Thank You for reading this somewhat long post and I hope it all makes sense.

Sounds like a FD height or alignment issue. FD cage should be about 1mm or less above big chainring and outer FD cage aligned with chain when in big ring and smallest(high gear) cog in back. PLUS the FD cage should be about 1mm from the chain, adjusted by the outer limit screw.

Chain 'speed' doesn't matter nor whether it's friction or ERGO.

 

["A"]

Check the alignment of the large front chainring, sping the crank are as if pedlling backwards and look for the large chainring is it is moving side to side. Next check the limit screw adjustments or the alignment of the front derailleur.

 

[alfeng]

Sounds like a FD height or alignment issue. FD cage should be about 1mm or less above big chainring and outer FD cage aligned with chain when in big ring and smallest(high gear) cog in back. PLUS the FD cage should be about 1mm from the chain, adjusted by the outer limit screw.

Chain 'speed' doesn't matter nor whether it's friction or ERGO.

I disagree with regard to the significance of how wide-or-narrow the chain is ...

To state the obvious, first, if a chain is too wide (e.g., a TRACK chain to state an extreme), then the plates of the front derailleur will rub against the chain sooner-rather-than-later ... the same is true if you were to use an 8-speed chain with a 9-/10/11-speed front derailleur OR a 9-speed chain in a 10-/11-speed front derailleur.

On the other side of the coin, if someone were to take their 8-speed drivetrain and install a 9-/10/11-speed chain in it and the stops are not adjusted, then when the front derailleur is engaged & shifted, it will more-than-likely NOT move the chain as far as it should to engage the next chainring ...

Will the chain eventually engage the OTHER chainring? Probably.

Well, say you adjust the stops on the front derailleur to move the chain sufficiently to eliminate the hesitation ... when that is done with too narrow a chain you end up with a situation akin to what often happened with the vintage Nuovo Record front derailleur whose cage plates were apparently fractionally further apart than the plates of most other front derailleurs as evidence by so many (but, not all, of course) Campagnolo Strada cranks whose inside of the driveside arm has too-often-seen 'rub mark' which was the result of the crankarm rubbing against the front derailleur -- this parallels the description of the OP's setup.

IMO, the importance of matching the front derailleur to the chain, and vice-versa, is amplified with indexed shifting.

As far as setting the lower edge of the outer cage of the front derailleur 1mm away from the teeth on the outer chainring as Shimano suggests, that certainly works; but, that is part of Shimano's kluge to assist the ramps-and-pins on their chainrings. I've had some derailleurs where the lower edge of the outer plate was set as far away as 3mm (!?!) and the shifting was still fine.

Am I just lucky in how I adjust my front derailleurs, now, OR have I learned from encountering those few front derailleurs (Shimano has at least ONE clunker which I've owned) which are best relegated to the dust heap of history? I think the latter. And, the momentary (well, as long as the derailleur was in service -- sometimes years) frustration of using what I deem to be a crappy front derailleur has provided me with an appreciation for the limitations inherent in the front derailleur & chain combination ...

Peter, didn't you once say (probably, at least I year ago) that you thought that tuning a front derailleur was an art (or, something along that line of thought)? If it wasn't you, then it was someone else ...

Regardless, I think setting up a front derailleur is just a matter of NOT being too casual about which chain is used with a particular front derailleur, and vice-versa ...

To oversimplify:

MATCH THE CHAIN TO THE CASSETTE/(Freewheel) & MATCH THE FRONT DERAILLEUR TO THE CHAIN, or vice-versa.
​

 

[Peter@vecchios]

I disagree with regard to the significance of how wide-or-narrow the chain is ...

I guess you missed the part about adjusting the limit screw so the outer cage is close the chain when in big ring, small cog. 8s RD and 11s chain..adjust the cage closer since the chain is narrower. 8s chain with a 11s FD, same distance but more trimming required due to narrowness of the FD cage. With friction shifter or ERGO, no need to have a '10s' FD with a 10s chain, IMO and from experience.

 

[alfeng]

I guess you missed the part about adjusting the limit screw so the outer cage is close the chain when in big ring, small cog. 8s RD and 11s chain..adjust the cage closer since the chain is narrower. 8s chain with a 11s FD, same distance but more trimming required due to narrowness of the FD cage. With friction shifter or ERGO, no need to have a '10s' FD with a 10s chain, IMO and from experience.

PETER!?!

Peter, Peter, Peter ...

Unlike you, I'm not having any problems setting up ANY front derailleur ...

And, I was trying to explain to the OP the probable reason why the outer plate on his front derailleur was nicking his crank arm ... YES, it is swinging out too far ... and, resetting the outer stop would prevent the derailleur from nicking the crank and/or throwing the chain ...

But, as I read the original post, adjusting the outer limit, as you suggest, apparently precludes effecting the shift without the derailleur cage nicking the crank arm ...
​

IF the OP/(OR, someone at a bike shop) inadvertently installed a narrower chain at some point in time THEN it may be the case where the separation between the front derailleur's plates is too great to achieve a shift without without the outer plate conflicting with the crank arm.
​

The chain's width absolutely CAN & therefore MAY matter.
​

IMO, the OP either needs to investigate and/or probably change the chain he is currently using OR buy a new front derailleur whose plates are closer together.

 

[Peter@vecchios]

PETER!?!

Peter, Peter, Peter ...

Unlike you, I'm not having any problems setting up ANY front derailleur ...

And, I was trying to explain to the OP the probable reason why the outer plate on his front derailleur was nicking his crank arm ... YES, it is swinging out too far ... and, resetting the outer stop would prevent the derailleur from nicking the crank and/or throwing the chain ...

But, as I read the original post, adjusting the outer limit, as you suggest, apparently precludes effecting the shift without the derailleur cage nicking the crank arm ...
​

IF the OP/(OR, someone at a bike shop) inadvertently installed a narrower chain at some point in time THEN it may be the case where the separation between the front derailleur's plates is too great to achieve a shift without without the outer plate conflicting with the crank arm.
​

The chain's width absolutely CAN & therefore MAY matter.
​

IMO, the OP either needs to investigate and/or probably change the chain he is currently using OR buy a new front derailleur whose plates are closer together.

"Unlike you, I'm not having any problems setting up ANY front derailleur"

Hmmm, I'm not having any trouble setting up a front derailleur nor am I insisting that the FD match the chain 'width'. As amatter of fact, a shimano 9s FD works better on a 10s system than a 10s one. Ditto for a 10s Campagnolo FD on a 11s system.