Why are the neighborhood bike shops fading away?

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Mike Jacoubowsky:
>Well, I've got a Jackie Cresswell that shows up in our computer (last
>purchase in 1999) but no Pete....
>
>Maybe I deleted you from the computer during one of my hard-nosed momnets?
>:>)

Until the Internet, my dad had me convinced that our family and
one other were the only Cresswells in the USA.

Now I find out we've been breeding like flies.
--
PeteCresswell

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

> In any case, if non-union workers really want a 10x4 work week it's not
> difficult to implement it with the same net weekly pay, unless you're
> paying less than 150% of minimum wage.

Only in an environment in which every single employee is treated the same.
You can't have people doing the same or similar jobs and being paid
substantially different wages/hour without running into trouble. So if
*everyone* is working a 4-day week, no problem. But otherwise? All it would
likely take is one person complaining to the NLRB and you're in trouble.
And, since the intent is to skirt the law, rightfully so.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"SMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Matt O'Toole wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:18:18 -0700, SMS wrote:
>>
>>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>
>>>> Labor regulations are quite different for family members, not that
>>>> there haven't been substantial abuses of labor laws by various
>>>> businesses in the past. In California, it's very, very expensive to
>>>> remain open more than 8 hours/day due to the present overtime rules. If
>>>> employees were allowed to work a 10 hour shift 4 days/week at standard
>>>> pay, the world would be a very different place for many small
>>>> businesses. But as things stand, we cannot afford to pay overtime to
>>>> stay open late, even though many of our employees would very much enjoy
>>>> a 4-day workweek.
>>
>> I didn't realize you couldn't have 10x4 work weeks in California. Or is
>> that only for hourly workers?
>
> I think for a while overtime only kicked in after 40 hours per week,
> regardless of the number of hours per day. However too many employers were
> abusing this system, requiring 12 hour days and not having to pay
> overtime.
>
> In any case, if non-union workers really want a 10x4 work week it's not
> difficult to implement it with the same net weekly pay, unless you're
> paying less than 150% of minimum wage.

 

[SMS]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

> That gets really weird. In principle, yes, it makes sense. In practice, it's
> questionable at best, and probably doesn't pass the looks-like-a-duck,
> quacks-like-a-duck test, since you'd probably have other employees working
> similar positions, not working a 4 day week, and getting paid more per
> hour... which, I'll bet, runs you afoul of something somewhere along the
> lines. If every single employee was treated exactly the same, it wouldn't be
> an issue (for the labor laws).

Where is it ever stated that all employees performing the same function
must receive the same pay rate?

 

[datakoll]

I patronize two and 1/2 bike machine shops, one on the east coast of
FL and one west, Schwinn Ft Myers and Bicyclery W. Palm Beach.
If you don't give them business $$$ they will not be there to support
you.
buy a power bar when in whining about tubes or ...
then there's Nbar, Universal Cycles, Campmor and REI for heavy
lifting.
If I bought ony from the LBS and not from the latter, the entire scene
becomes unaffordable.
or single speed cruisers.
itsa solar system of suppliers.

 

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

>> That gets really weird. In principle, yes, it makes sense. In practice,
>> it's questionable at best, and probably doesn't pass the
>> looks-like-a-duck, quacks-like-a-duck test, since you'd probably have
>> other employees working similar positions, not working a 4 day week, and
>> getting paid more per hour... which, I'll bet, runs you afoul of
>> something somewhere along the lines. If every single employee was treated
>> exactly the same, it wouldn't be an issue (for the labor laws).
>
> Where is it ever stated that all employees performing the same function
> must receive the same pay rate?

It isn't, per se. But it can be used as a basis for determining all manner
of discrimination or unfair labor practices.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"SMS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
>> That gets really weird. In principle, yes, it makes sense. In practice,
>> it's questionable at best, and probably doesn't pass the
>> looks-like-a-duck, quacks-like-a-duck test, since you'd probably have
>> other employees working similar positions, not working a 4 day week, and
>> getting paid more per hour... which, I'll bet, runs you afoul of
>> something somewhere along the lines. If every single employee was treated
>> exactly the same, it wouldn't be an issue (for the labor laws).
>
> Where is it ever stated that all employees performing the same function
> must receive the same pay rate?

 

[Clive George]

"(PeteCresswell)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Per Mike Jacoubowsky:
>>Well, I've got a Jackie Cresswell that shows up in our computer (last
>>purchase in 1999) but no Pete....
>>
>>Maybe I deleted you from the computer during one of my hard-nosed momnets?
>>:>)
>
> Until the Internet, my dad had me convinced that our family and
> one other were the only Cresswells in the USA.
>
> Now I find out we've been breeding like flies.

I knew a man named Pete Cresswell when I was a kid, but not in the USA, so
that makes you common as muck

cheers,
clive

 

[Marian]

My local bike shop is growing and recently opened a branch store in
another city.

They have always specialized in selling high-end bicycles though, in
the last five years, and especially the last two years, the definition
of high-end has rapidly changed to the point where the bike shop owner
no longer understands the vast majority of what she has in stock and
all the mechanics have far nicer bikes than she does.

Even within China it is uncommon for a real bike shop to be owned by
someone who isn't a cyclist and with the exception of the local bike
shop there is no one else in the country at her absolute stellar level
of quality where the boss doesn't ride. (I'd say she probably does in
a month what any one of the racers does on a single training ride.)

-M

 

[Jon Forrest]

My brother used to own The Spokesman in Santa Cruz, Cal.
In spite of the fact that there's a lot of competition in
that town, this store did quite well. But, my brother
got tired of the hassle of being in a retail business
so he sold out and tried selling real estate. It turned
out that selling real estate was even more of a hassle
than being in retail so now he's opened up another
bike store, this time in Watsonville, Cal.

Maybe this kind of thing is the reason why other
neighborhood bike stops are fading away.

Jon Forrest

 

[Dave]

On Oct 24, 7:52 am, wrench4life <[email protected]> wrote:
> Is it just me or are the old school, "mom & pop" bike shops fading
> away due to places like walmart,target, and performance?
>
> They (the above mentioned) started out small and like any hungry group
> of biz-ness folk ,they grew their business & good for them. But
> durring their quest for retail domination, they are intentionally or
> otherwise erasing a part of American tradition-The friendly
> neighborhood bike shop.
>
> Like myself, I'm sure their are many of you that stay true to your
> local shop. So my question is this...What makes you stay loyal and why
> are the big guys killing the local shop?
>
> I personally have found the service from the lnbs to be more
> aproachable, more casual, and way more informative. I have also found
> some *****in' old school memorabillia (like my 1951 5spd topetube
> stick shift Peugeot) from my lnbs. Not to mention the shop dog's. I
> love those dog's almost as much as my own k-9's. Seriously people, how
> can you not like a shop dog. You know what I mean.? Anyway.
> The turn around time for a service is eaqual to if not sooner than the
> big guy's. The accessory prices are usually the same or lower than the
> big guy's, and the quality of the bike's are way better. (I'm sorry
> but the Schwinn at walmat or target is not the same Schwinn you will
> get from your lnbs).
>
> So again I ponder this sleepless question, why are the big guy's
> doing so well and the local guys struggling?
>
> Can someone please show me what I'm missing here?

Fascinating discussion here...

I think a lot of neighborhood bike shops frankly deserve to die. The
typical IBD has a few undistinguished asian-made bike lines, weak
service offerings, ill-paid incompetent mechanics, and uninteresting
apparel and accessory choices for which they must charge full list to
survive. They do nothing to promote the sport or facilitate bike
culture, and they'll happily sell someone an ill-fitting or
inappropriate product in order to make a sale. The bread and butter
product for these shops here in Los Angeles is $100-$150 chinese beach
cruisers, which the big boxes sell for less. In the age of the
internet and complete bikes by mail, why should these places survive?
The world owes nobody a living.

Why are IBDs so darn resistant to experimenting with alternative
formats and niche markets? This is true even in Los Angeles, an
absolutely huge cycling market with plenty of room for
differentiation. High end service a la vecchio's, custom bike builds,
quality suspension work for increasingly complex mountain bikes (VERY
hard to find), coffee bars, fixed gear specific, beach cruiser or
chopper specific, commuter specific, coffee bars, interesting and
stylish apparel...there's so much. We are beginning to see niche
local shops like this in LA but there's plenty of opportunity out
there.

 

[Tom Sherman]

SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
> Steve Gravrock wrote:
>> On 2007-10-24, * * Chas <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I like to support my LBSs. I check with them first and unless
>>> something is
>>> priced way out of line I will pay 5% to 20% more just for the
>>> convenience
>>> of having a LBS.
>>
>> That's pretty much the way I approach it. For me, mail order is
>> inconvenient. I'm not home during delivery hours so I invariably have to
>> pick the package up at the shipping company's depot.
>
> LOL, obviously in your area Fed Ex and UPS don't perform their famous,
> ring, drop, and run procedure on packages. I think it varies by
> neighborhood. Clearly they've determined than not dealing with multiple
> deliveries and will call is worth an occasional stolen package.

In some neighborhoods, the percentage of unattended packages stolen
would approach 100%.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

 

[Tom Sherman]

SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
> ...But that's solely from a
> customer's point of view, I understand why family time on weekends is
> necessary.

Bloody Commie.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

 

[Tom Sherman]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007
> 08:18:18 -0700, SMS wrote:
>>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>
>>>> Labor regulations are quite different for family members, not that
>>>> there haven't been substantial abuses of labor laws by various
>>>> businesses in the past. In California, it's very, very expensive to
>>>> remain open more than 8 hours/day due to the present overtime rules. If
>>>> employees were allowed to work a 10 hour shift 4 days/week at standard
>>>> pay, the world would be a very different place for many small
>>>> businesses. But as things stand, we cannot afford to pay overtime to
>>>> stay open late, even though many of our employees would very much enjoy
>>>> a 4-day workweek.
>> I didn't realize you couldn't have 10x4 work weeks in California. Or is
>> that only for hourly workers?
>
> Only for hourly workers, but there are many requirements for "exempt" status
> that a service-oriented business cannot meet. Doesn't matter, some do claim
> exempt status for non-management employees, and when they get caught, it can
> be very bad. As it should be. There are rules laid down regarding working
> conditions, and those rules are there by & large for good reason....

WHAT! In a free market, there is no need for labor laws, since the
workers are free to choose the best employer, no?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

 

[Tom Sherman]

SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
>> That gets really weird. In principle, yes, it makes sense. In
>> practice, it's questionable at best, and probably doesn't pass the
>> looks-like-a-duck, quacks-like-a-duck test, since you'd probably have
>> other employees working similar positions, not working a 4 day week,
>> and getting paid more per hour... which, I'll bet, runs you afoul of
>> something somewhere along the lines. If every single employee was
>> treated exactly the same, it wouldn't be an issue (for the labor laws).
>
> Where is it ever stated that all employees performing the same function
> must receive the same pay rate?

Do not the employees that golf with the boss, and make sure that the
boss wins get the highest pay?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

 

[Tom Sherman]

SMS aka Steven M. Scharf wrote:
> Matt O'Toole wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:18:18 -0700, SMS wrote:
>>
>>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>>
>>>> Labor regulations are quite different for family members, not that
>>>> there haven't been substantial abuses of labor laws by various
>>>> businesses in the past. In California, it's very, very expensive to
>>>> remain open more than 8 hours/day due to the present overtime rules. If
>>>> employees were allowed to work a 10 hour shift 4 days/week at standard
>>>> pay, the world would be a very different place for many small
>>>> businesses. But as things stand, we cannot afford to pay overtime to
>>>> stay open late, even though many of our employees would very much enjoy
>>>> a 4-day workweek.
>>
>> I didn't realize you couldn't have 10x4 work weeks in California. Or is
>> that only for hourly workers?
>
> I think for a while overtime only kicked in after 40 hours per week,
> regardless of the number of hours per day. However too many employers
> were abusing this system, requiring 12 hour days and not having to pay
> overtime....

What is wrong with that? It is a free market, after all.

Some job in a state university system are three (3) thirteen (13) hour
shifts per week.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

 

[Tom Sherman]

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> In any case, if non-union workers really want a 10x4 work week it's not
>> difficult to implement it with the same net weekly pay, unless you're
>> paying less than 150% of minimum wage.
>
> Only in an environment in which every single employee is treated the same.
> You can't have people doing the same or similar jobs and being paid
> substantially different wages/hour without running into trouble. So if
> *everyone* is working a 4-day week, no problem. But otherwise? All it would
> likely take is one person complaining to the NLRB and you're in trouble.
> And, since the intent is to skirt the law, rightfully so.

Not for exempt employees is this true. Those who sell themselves well in
an interview can get hired on at 50 percent higher wage than current
employees doing the same level of work.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

 

[Tom Sherman]

Donald Gillies wrote:
> wrench4life <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> Is it just me or are the old school, "mom & pop" bike shops fading
>> away due to places like walmart,target, and performance?
>
> walmart, target, and performance cut out the middle-man overhead. In
> many cases performance can sell some products more cheaply than your
> LBS can order them at wholesale price (quote from LBS owner.)
>
> Since the purchase of bike nashbar and supergo, performance now has
> operations in most states and must collect sales taxes....

Many states legally require sales tax to be paid on mail order items,
but this is hard to enforce, as it would require an audit and thorough
investigation of every taxpayer.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
When did ignorance of biology become a "family value"?

 

[A Muzi]

>> wrench4life <[email protected]> writes:
>>> Is it just me or are the old school, "mom & pop" bike shops fading
>>> away due to places like walmart,target, and performance?

> Donald Gillies wrote:
>> walmart, target, and performance cut out the middle-man overhead. In
>> many cases performance can sell some products more cheaply than your
>> LBS can order them at wholesale price (quote from LBS owner.)
>> Since the purchase of bike nashbar and supergo, performance now has
>> operations in most states and must collect sales taxes....

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Many states legally require sales tax to be paid on mail order items,
> but this is hard to enforce, as it would require an audit and thorough
> investigation of every taxpayer.

A State of Wisconsin Revenue employee, a former manager here, just sent
a dunning letter for 'use tax' to another ex-employee who worked under
him at one time. Small world.

In fact a case has to be egregious to attract attention. Anyone
following the proposal to tax net sales in the House? Scary. While
claiming 'extend tax moratorium' only on net access fees, and
temporarily at that, it opens States' opportunity to dip their greedy
mitts into interstate commerce.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971