Rear wheel catastropy

TBGibb said:

1. I rebuilt the rear wheel about a week ago.
2. Riding home from work, when I was starting to put some pressure on the
pedals at the begining of a hill there was a "snap" and the bike almost
stopped.
3. The quick release skewer was broken at the threads.
4. The cones in the wheel were (are) extremely tight. I cannot as yet loosen
them.
5. The lock nut on the right (drive) side was very loose.

A. Did the broken skewer and the rotation of the wheel tighten the cones like
that? If so it happened very quickly.

I think the original problem was the loose right side locknut. If a
right side locknut is loose, the normal rotation of the wheel will
tighten the cone (away from the locknut) locking up the axle. It's
possible that the axle elongated under the stress of the overtightened
cone, and that this is what snapped the skewer.

Quoted message said:

B. Could improperly tightened lock nuts cause this? I spent some time at it
and I'm pretty sure I locked both sides.

The right side should be seriously tight against the locknut, generally
you want to make your adjustments with the left side. If the left side
is a bit loose, the wheel's rotation will only loosen it a bit more, not
usually a serious problem.

Quoted message said:

C. Any ideas for getting those cones to turn? Cone wrenches are not great for
high torque applications.

If it's an old-style thread-on freewheel hub, remove the freewheel.
This will give you access to the right cone. Since the right cone
locknut is loose, you can then remove it and put a serious 15 mm open
end wrench on the right cone.

Use a serious 17 mm wrench on the left locknut, and something's gotta
give. You'll either be able to remove the left locknut, or the right
cone will loosen up.

(Your wrench sizes may vary, but the sizes I mentioned are by far the
most common.)

If it's a cassette hub, you won't be able to reach the right cone until
the left side is loose.

Some cones have deep enough flats that you can use a pedal wrench on
them (same 15 mm size.) You can apply a LOT more oomph with a pedal
wrench than with a typical cone wrench.

Quoted message said:

D. Are my bearings probably toast?

Alas, yes.

Sheldon "Ouch!" Brown
+-------------------------------------------+
| I millihelen = the amount of |
| beauty required to launch one ship. |
| --Peter Shickele |
+-------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TBGibb said:

1. I rebuilt the rear wheel about a week ago.
2. Riding home from work, when I was starting to put some pressure on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pedals at the begining of a hill there was a "snap" and the bike almost
stopped.
3. The quick release skewer was broken at the threads.
4. The cones in the wheel were (are) extremely tight. I cannot as yet

loosen

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

them.
5. The lock nut on the right (drive) side was very loose.

A. Did the broken skewer and the rotation of the wheel tighten the cones

like

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that? If so it happened very quickly.

I think the original problem was the loose right side locknut. If a
right side locknut is loose, the normal rotation of the wheel will
tighten the cone (away from the locknut) locking up the axle. It's
possible that the axle elongated under the stress of the overtightened
cone, and that this is what snapped the skewer.

Quoted message said:

B. Could improperly tightened lock nuts cause this? I spent some time

at it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and I'm pretty sure I locked both sides.

The right side should be seriously tight against the locknut, generally
you want to make your adjustments with the left side. If the left side
is a bit loose, the wheel's rotation will only loosen it a bit more, not
usually a serious problem.

Quoted message said:

C. Any ideas for getting those cones to turn? Cone wrenches are not

great for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

high torque applications.

If it's an old-style thread-on freewheel hub, remove the freewheel.
This will give you access to the right cone. Since the right cone
locknut is loose, you can then remove it and put a serious 15 mm open
end wrench on the right cone.

Use a serious 17 mm wrench on the left locknut, and something's gotta
give. You'll either be able to remove the left locknut, or the right
cone will loosen up.

(Your wrench sizes may vary, but the sizes I mentioned are by far the
most common.)

If it's a cassette hub, you won't be able to reach the right cone until
the left side is loose.

Some cones have deep enough flats that you can use a pedal wrench on
them (same 15 mm size.) You can apply a LOT more oomph with a pedal
wrench than with a typical cone wrench.

Quoted message said:

D. Are my bearings probably toast?

Alas, yes.

Could just be that the balls are busted but the bearing surfaces are still
A-OK. Something semi-similar happened to me and the races turned out
unharmed. Had to buy new ball bearings, though. The balls had broken under
the pressure and appeared to be like a jaw breaker candy with layer upon
layer of material making them up. The outer most layer began separating
from the ball. Perhaps this wouldn't have happen with better quality
balls?? Anyway, Good luck.

Dave

Pistof said:

The balls had broken under
the pressure and appeared to be like a jaw breaker candy with layer upon
layer of material making them up. The outer most layer began separating
from the ball. Perhaps this wouldn't have happen with better quality
balls??

Sounds painful.

Pistof said:

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TBGibb said:

1. I rebuilt the rear wheel about a week ago.
2. Riding home from work, when I was starting to put some pressure on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pedals at the begining of a hill there was a "snap" and the bike almost
stopped.
3. The quick release skewer was broken at the threads.
4. The cones in the wheel were (are) extremely tight. I cannot as yet

loosen

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

them.
5. The lock nut on the right (drive) side was very loose.

A. Did the broken skewer and the rotation of the wheel tighten the cones

like

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that? If so it happened very quickly.

I think the original problem was the loose right side locknut. If a
right side locknut is loose, the normal rotation of the wheel will
tighten the cone (away from the locknut) locking up the axle. It's
possible that the axle elongated under the stress of the overtightened
cone, and that this is what snapped the skewer.

Quoted message said:

B. Could improperly tightened lock nuts cause this? I spent some time

at it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and I'm pretty sure I locked both sides.

The right side should be seriously tight against the locknut, generally
you want to make your adjustments with the left side. If the left side
is a bit loose, the wheel's rotation will only loosen it a bit more, not
usually a serious problem.

Quoted message said:

C. Any ideas for getting those cones to turn? Cone wrenches are not

great for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

high torque applications.

If it's an old-style thread-on freewheel hub, remove the freewheel.
This will give you access to the right cone. Since the right cone
locknut is loose, you can then remove it and put a serious 15 mm open
end wrench on the right cone.

Use a serious 17 mm wrench on the left locknut, and something's gotta
give. You'll either be able to remove the left locknut, or the right
cone will loosen up.

(Your wrench sizes may vary, but the sizes I mentioned are by far the
most common.)

If it's a cassette hub, you won't be able to reach the right cone until
the left side is loose.

Some cones have deep enough flats that you can use a pedal wrench on
them (same 15 mm size.) You can apply a LOT more oomph with a pedal
wrench than with a typical cone wrench.

Quoted message said:

D. Are my bearings probably toast?

Alas, yes.

Could just be that the balls are busted but the bearing surfaces are still
A-OK. Something semi-similar happened to me and the races turned out
unharmed. Had to buy new ball bearings, though. The balls had broken under
the pressure and appeared to be like a jaw breaker candy with layer upon
layer of material making them up. The outer most layer began separating
from the ball. Perhaps this wouldn't have happen with better quality
balls?? Anyway, Good luck.

with good quality bearing balls, that layering wouldn't happen. they
are uniform throughout. only the cheapo surface hardened variety have a
layer that can come off.

if the bearings are of good quality, the races will be shot. in this
situation, usually, the balls are slightly harder than the races and if
the ball surfaces are spalling, you can bet the races are ruined.

In article <[email hidden]>, Sheldon Brown
<[email hidden]> writes:

my blather snipped

Quoted message said:

I think the original problem was the loose right side locknut. If a
right side locknut is loose, the normal rotation of the wheel will
tighten the cone (away from the locknut) locking up the axle. It's
possible that the axle elongated under the stress of the overtightened
cone, and that this is what snapped the skewer.

This certainly fits.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

B. Could improperly tightened lock nuts cause this? I spent some time at

it

Quoted message said:

and I'm pretty sure I locked both sides.

The right side should be seriously tight against the locknut, generally
you want to make your adjustments with the left side. If the left side
is a bit loose, the wheel's rotation will only loosen it a bit more, not
usually a serious problem.

I do use the left side for the adjustments, but if I didn't make the right side
*really* tight it sounds as if it would be all for nought.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

C. Any ideas for getting those cones to turn? Cone wrenches are not great

for

Quoted message said:

high torque applications.

If it's an old-style thread-on freewheel hub, remove the freewheel.
This will give you access to the right cone. Since the right cone
locknut is loose, you can then remove it and put a serious 15 mm open
end wrench on the right cone.

Use a serious 17 mm wrench on the left locknut, and something's gotta
give. You'll either be able to remove the left locknut, or the right
cone will loosen up.

(Your wrench sizes may vary, but the sizes I mentioned are by far the
most common.)

Those are the right ones.

Quoted message said:

If it's a cassette hub, you won't be able to reach the right cone until
the left side is loose.

I got the cassette off.

Quoted message said:

Some cones have deep enough flats that you can use a pedal wrench on
them (same 15 mm size.) You can apply a LOT more oomph with a pedal
wrench than with a typical cone wrench.

I wound up slowly spinning the wheel with the axle in the axle vise while
holding one of the cones as best I could with the cone wrench and it finally
loosened.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

D. Are my bearings probably toast?

Alas, yes.

Thanks very much for your help, once again, Sheldon.

Quoted message said:

Sheldon "Ouch!" Brown
+-------------------------------------------+
| I millihelen = the amount of |
| beauty required to launch one ship. |
| --Peter Shickele |
+-------------------------------------------+

Sheldon, are you being a little "troy" here?

Tom Gibb <[email hidden]>

(TBGibb) said:

B. Could improperly tightened lock nuts cause this? I spent some time at it
and I'm pretty sure I locked both sides.

From my experince, that's almost certainly the case.

Quoted message said:

C. Any ideas for getting those cones to turn? Cone wrenches are not great for
high torque applications.

Undo the left first, take the axle out, and then attack the right (to
tighten the locknut properly this time) with whatever comes to hand
that will get it tight enough. Adjust with the left *only*.

Quoted message said:

D. Are my bearings probably toast?

Maybe, maybe not. Dismantle and inspect. Good balls are very hard,
but many cones aren't. Use a magnifier to inspect the balls, cones
and cups. Replace anything that's obviously damaged. (Hope that the
cups aren't among the casualties...which they most likely are not.)
Reassemble and check for crunchy/rumble noises.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Quoted message said:

if the bearings are of good quality, the races will be shot. in this
situation, usually, the balls are slightly harder than the races and
if the ball surfaces are spalling, you can bet the races are ruined.

To preserve hubs then, should one use cheap balls? Balls are cheaper than
races. Have you had problems with the longevity of properly-adjusted hubs?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training