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bike shifts by itself--now what?

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Cycling Equipment
Published
5 September 2004
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22 September 2004
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Pat
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  1. For the second time in as many rides, my bike shifted by itself. Both
    times, I was about 3/4 of the way up a tough hill and it shifted from the
    middle chainring to the third chainring. What a surprise! I was happy to
    note that I was not standing on the pedals at the time, but still....Also,
    both times the rear derailleur was in the next to lowest gear. The first
    time this happened, I thought I had somehow done it without noticing, but
    the grating sound of the chain rubbing on the front derailleur told me that
    it was still over the middle chainring.

    Is this something I can fix by myself? I looked at the middle chainring and
    do not see any obvious flaws, but something is out of order....

    Pat in TX

  2. Pat said:

    For the second time in as many rides, my bike shifted by itself. Both
    times, I was about 3/4 of the way up a tough hill and it shifted from the
    middle chainring to the third chainring.

    I assume you mean it shifted to the granny ring

    Quoted message said:

    both times the rear derailleur was in the next to lowest gear. The first
    time this happened, I thought I had somehow done it without noticing, but
    the grating sound of the chain rubbing on the front derailleur told me
    that
    it was still over the middle chainring.

    If the front der was centered over the middle chainring the whole time, the
    chain couldn't have shifted.

    Quoted message said:

    Is this something I can fix by myself? I looked at the middle chainring
    and
    do not see any obvious flaws, but something is out of order....

    Have you been riding this bike for a long time without this problem? Had you
    made any adjustments/maintenance recently?

    Tough to say without seeing the bike, but I would guess the front der
    position or adjustment need to be adjusted. A poor chainline or gunked up
    cables may be a contributing factors.

    See:
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html#front

    and

    http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/howfix_frontderailleur.shtml

    Art Harris

  3. "Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    For the second time in as many rides, my bike shifted by itself.
    Both times, I was about 3/4 of the way up a tough hill and it
    shifted from the middle chainring to the third chainring. What a
    surprise! I was happy to note that I was not standing on the
    pedals at the time, but still....Also, both times the rear
    derailleur was in the next to lowest gear. The first time this
    happened, I thought I had somehow done it without noticing, but
    the grating sound of the chain rubbing on the front derailleur
    told me that it was still over the middle chainring.

    Is this something I can fix by myself? I looked at the middle
    chainring and do not see any obvious flaws, but something is out
    of order....

    Pat in TX


    Obviously you are one of the first people to have SHAT (SHimano
    Automatic Transmission)....lucky you.


  4. Quoted message said:
    Pat said:

    For the second time in as many rides, my bike shifted by itself. Both
    times, I was about 3/4 of the way up a tough hill and it shifted from


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    middle chainring to the third chainring.

    I assume you mean it shifted to the granny ring

    Yes, that's what it did.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    both times the rear derailleur was in the next to lowest gear. The


    first

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    time this happened, I thought I had somehow done it without noticing,


    but

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the grating sound of the chain rubbing on the front derailleur told me
    that
    it was still over the middle chainring.

    Quoted message said:

    If the front der was centered over the middle chainring the whole time,


    the

    Quoted message said:

    chain couldn't have shifted.

    It didn't look to be exactly centered, but the clatter proved it wasn't
    centered over the granny ring, either.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Is this something I can fix by myself? I looked at the middle chainring
    and
    do not see any obvious flaws, but something is out of order....

    Have you been riding this bike for a long time without this problem? Had


    you

    Quoted message said:

    made any adjustments/maintenance recently?

    Yes, this bike was new in 2001 and has not had this (or any ) problem. And,
    no, I can't think of anything recently other than I had the shop put on a
    new chain a month ago.

    Quoted message said:


    Tough to say without seeing the bike, but I would guess the front der
    position or adjustment need to be adjusted. A poor chainline or gunked up
    cables may be a contributing factors.

    thanks for responding. I'll check those links out.

    Pat in TX


  5. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Is this something I can fix by myself? I looked at the middle
    chainring and do not see any obvious flaws, but something is out
    of order....

    Pat in TX


    Obviously you are one of the first people to have SHAT (SHimano
    Automatic Transmission)....lucky you.

    Sigh, but no. It's Campy Veloce.

    Pat in TX

    Quoted message said:
  6. Check for a loose chainring, say a missing or almost missing bolt.

    Check that the chainring teeth aren't worn down, and that
    the chain when under tension doesn't have a lot of space between
    chainring and chain (indicating a stretched chain). When the space
    gets up to a certain point on the teeth, it begins to ride higher
    with every tooth until it's on top, and then is free to go to
    whatever chainring it likes best, when it's under heavy load.

    Replacing a stretched chain generally means replacing the cogs on
    the rear; you may get away with the same chainrings.

    Replacing a chainring doesn't require anything else though you might
    want to.

    If neither of these, adjust the derailleur a little towards the larger
    chainring.
    --
    Ron Hardin
    [email hidden]

    On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

  7. Pat said:

    For the second time in as many rides, my bike shifted by itself. Both
    times, I was about 3/4 of the way up a tough hill and it shifted from the
    middle chainring to the third chainring. What a surprise! I was happy to
    note that I was not standing on the pedals at the time, but still....Also,
    both times the rear derailleur was in the next to lowest gear. The first
    time this happened, I thought I had somehow done it without noticing, but
    the grating sound of the chain rubbing on the front derailleur told me that
    it was still over the middle chainring.

    Is this something I can fix by myself? I looked at the middle chainring and
    do not see any obvious flaws, but something is out of order....

    Check for chain wear, check for a loose crank, check for a loose
    bottom bracket locknut or lockring, and check to see if the right
    crank is flexing a lot when you pedal while standing. I had this
    happen several times with a bike that had a cheap crankset; the right
    crank could flex enough by itself to almost allow the chain to rub on
    the der. Combined with a loose BB, it slopped around enough to allow
    the der to nudge the chain off the center ring once in a while. At
    first I thought the crank was a bit loose...but it wasn't. After
    locking the BB back into place and retrimming the der, I got it to
    behave itself pretty well until I could scrounge a better crankset.
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

  8. Pat said:

    Is this something I can fix by myself? I looked at the middle chainring and
    do not see any obvious flaws, but something is out of order....

    In general, you can not get all of your cogs to work
    with all of your chainrings.

    E.g., on my bike, I know not to use the leftmost cog with
    the right chainring, nor vice-versa. The primary reason is
    the excessive angular stress on the chain where it meets
    the gears will tend to stretch and weaken it, essentially
    by bending it back and forth until it breaks; plus, the
    chain will wear off the teeth of the gears. And I suppose
    it can induce mystical shifting.

    Sounds like all that's happening is that the angle between
    the chain and the chainring is large enough to cause the
    chain to disengage that ring and, luckily, engage the
    next one. The tensioner on the rear derailleur takes
    up the angle in the rear, and keeps the chain on the
    selected cog, or it would slide down the casette, too.

    Basically, you should just stop using that cog with
    that chainring.

    Chart the gear ratios for all of your chainrings and
    cogs to determine where the overlaps lie. You probably
    don't need to use the combinations that have large angles
    between them.

    E.g., on my bike (currently set up with 42-52 front and
    14-16-18-20-22-24 rear) I have use for only 8 of the 12
    available ratios:

    42 52
    24 X
    22 X X
    20 X X
    18 X
    16 X
    14 X

    IIRC, Sheldon Brown has a gearing calculator.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/

    --Blair
    "IRC."

  9. The first thing I'd do is flip the bike upside down and look at the
    derailleur cables. The area under the bottom bracket which the cables
    rest against should be clean, and the cables should not be rusty.
    Clean, replace cables if needed, and put a little dry lube on it.
    Should fix the problem.

    If you haven't seen www.sheldonbrown.com you should go and look at it.
    This and many other useful tips are available there.

  10. Tim McNamara said:

    The first thing I'd do is flip the bike upside down and look at the
    derailleur cables. The area under the bottom bracket which the cables
    rest against should be clean, and the cables should not be rusty.
    Clean, replace cables if needed, and put a little dry lube on it.
    Should fix the problem.

    If you haven't seen www.sheldonbrown.com you should go and look at it.
    This and many other useful tips are available there.

    Tim may be referring to the article by Sheldon Brown entitled autoshifting:

    <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/autoshift.html>

    Sometimes frayed or worn cables and worn/corroded housings can do things like the problem you describe as well. Depending on the care, storage, and beginning quality, it may well be worth the money to replace cables and housings:

    <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cables.html>

  11. Pat-<< Sigh, but no. It's Campy Veloce. >><BR><BR>

    Could be that the middle rings has worn and you 'may' have a 115.5mm BB with a
    small diameter seattube. 'May'...By using the 111mm BB spindle, you may improve
    the chainline. I also assume the BB is tight in the frameset?

    Peter Chisholm
    Vecchio's Bicicletteria
    1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535
    http://www.vecchios.com
    "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"


  12. Quoted message said:

    Could be that the middle rings has worn and you 'may' have a 115.5mm BB


    with a

    Quoted message said:

    small diameter seattube. 'May'...By using the 111mm BB spindle, you may


    improve

    Quoted message said:

    the chainline. I also assume the BB is tight in the frameset?

    Peter Chisholm


    Yes, the BB is tight. Everything looks good. I lubricated the chain last
    night to see if that would help, but the teeth on the middle chainring look
    good (to me, anyway). Unfortunately, today is raining, so I won't be taking
    it out for a test ride.

    Pat in TX

  13. daveornee said:

    Tim may be referring to the article by Sheldon Brown entitled
    autoshifting:

    <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/autoshift.html>

    (I didn't look there, but...)

    How much does bike cable stretch with temperature changes?

    Anyone?

    --Blair
    "Just curious."

  14. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Blair P. Houghton said:
    daveornee said:

    Tim may be referring to the article by Sheldon Brown entitled
    autoshifting:

    <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/autoshift.html>

    (I didn't look there, but...)

    How much does bike cable stretch with temperature changes?

    Anyone?

    --Blair
    "Just curious."

    If you want to quantify it, steel's coefficient of expansion is
    15.3 µm/m-°C, or 8.5 µin/in-°F.

    Those figures are for AISI Type 651 (19-9) Stainless Steel tested at
    24°C.

    So for a change of 20 degrees C and a cable of one meter length, the
    cable would lengthen by .000306 m, or less than one-third of a
    millimeter.

    Given the small cable movement to effect a gear change, that may be
    significant but likely not if you consider the expansion of the frame
    which puts the anchor points a little farther away from each other.

  15. Blair P. Houghton inquired:

    Quoted message said:


    How much does bike cable stretch with temperature changes?

    If the cable runs in housing, there's no change, since the inner and
    outer cable are both made of the same material, steel.

    If your frame is steel, this is so even where the cables run open along
    the side of frame tubes.

    For aluminum or titanium frames, the cable would theoreticaly get a bit
    tighter as temperature rises, because aluminum's coefficient of
    expansion is twice that of steel, and titanium is 2 1/2 times.

    I don't think anybody has noticed this in practice.

    Thermal Expansion coefficients (from ElementsIQ 2.0 in my handy dandy
    Sony Clié):

    Fe 1.18
    Al 2.31
    Ti 2.99

    No data for carbon.

    Sheldon "Shareware" Brown
    +-------------------------------------------------------+
    | Military conscription is the worst form of slavery. |
    | A more enlightened age will consider it a War crime. |
    +-------------------------------------------------------+
    Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
    http://harriscyclery.com
    Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

  16. Sheldon Brown said:
    Quoted message said:

    How much does bike cable stretch with temperature changes?

    If the cable runs in housing, there's no change, since the inner and
    outer cable are both made of the same material, steel.

    The cable outside the housing though expands, so you want steel brakes
    and rims too.

    I think the perverse rubber brake pads in fact contract when heated,
    a fly in the ointment. Everything on the bike gets bigger except the
    brake pads, which get smaller.
    --
    Ron Hardin
    [email hidden]

    On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

  17. Ron Hardin said:
    Sheldon Brown said:
    Quoted message said:

    How much does bike cable stretch with temperature changes?

    If the cable runs in housing, there's no change, since the inner and
    outer cable are both made of the same material, steel.

    Steel cables and steel frame would expand equally, so I'll
    have no problem (even with my friction shifters). But it'd
    be interesting to see if indexed shifters ever go out of
    tolerance because of thermal effects on more exotic frames.

    Quoted message said:

    I think the perverse rubber brake pads in fact contract when heated,
    a fly in the ointment. Everything on the bike gets bigger except the
    brake pads, which get smaller.

    Brake pads get really, really hot all the time.

    --Blair
    "And no, I can't find a way to
    profit from it either."

  18. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Arthur Harris said:
    Pat said:

    For the second time in as many rides, my bike shifted by itself. Both
    times, I was about 3/4 of the way up a tough hill and it shifted from the
    middle chainring to the third chainring.

    I assume you mean it shifted to the granny ring

    Quoted message said:

    both times the rear derailleur was in the next to lowest gear. The first
    time this happened, I thought I had somehow done it without noticing, but
    the grating sound of the chain rubbing on the front derailleur told me
    that
    it was still over the middle chainring.

    If the front der was centered over the middle chainring the whole time, the
    chain couldn't have shifted.

    _ Yes, it can. If you have just the right combo of large rear
    cogset and shift pins on the middle chainring, the chain will
    shift under load regardless of where the derailler is. I don't
    know that this is the problem in this case, but it can happen
    and is mighty puzzling to figure out.

    _ If this is the case then you either need to get a cassette
    with a smaller range, a middle chainring without shift pins
    or not use the middle/big gears.

    _ Booker C. Bense

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