Cities Turning to Bicycles

RJ said:

Before I call you liar, what minivan is it that gets 40 mpg highway?

I have no idea what Baker is talking about, but you could do it
with a stick shift 1984 Dodge Caravan. A diesel Vanagon would be
right up there too. In today's market, I don't know of anything,
unless you want to call a Toyota Matrix a minivan.

Mitch.

Mitch Haley said:

RJ said:

Before I call you liar, what minivan is it that gets 40 mpg highway?

I have no idea what Baker is talking about, but you could do it
with a stick shift 1984 Dodge Caravan.

40? No way. Size and shape make it impossible.

Quoted message said:

A diesel Vanagon would be
right up there too. T

Nope. The diesel Jetta is over 40, but the Passat is under 40, and both
of them have vastly better aerodynamic shapes than a minivan.

Quoted message said:

In today's market, I don't know of anything,
unless you want to call a Toyota Matrix a minivan.

Evidently it was just a troll.

In article <[email hidden]>,

George Conklin said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is a working car.

It certainly is.

Precisely what I wrote. Got it?

Hey, I'm just agreein' with ya.

BTW, the ladies really resent the term, 'wench'.
If I were you I'd use it sparingly (if at all);
otherwise it might affect productivity.

So, what kind of upholstery do you have --
leopard-skin, or pearl Naugahyde?

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

"Mitch Haley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| Matthew Russotto wrote:
| >
| > In article <[email hidden]>,
| > DonQuijote1954 <[email hidden]> wrote:
| > >
| > >Hey good question, "What would Jesus had driven before an accident?"
| >
| > Best answer I've seen is "A panel van with 'Nazarene and Son,
| > Carpenters' stenciled on the side."
|
| I always thought the obvious answer to "What would Jesus drive?" was
| "Sandals".

I've always wondered what kind of plastic figurine would be on his dash
board...

ED3

In article <[email hidden]>,

Edward Dike said:

I've always wondered what kind of plastic figurine would be on his dash
board...

An Arnold Palmer bobble-head.

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

"Chalo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Your understanding of class hostility is fundamentally flawed.

You framed it as a vehicle safety issue, and so that is what I answered.

People can afford whatever they choose to, you may choose to live
your life in a way that makes you feel better about your place in
society, but does not afford you the option to purchase a new BMW
740iL this is your choice, and your right in a free society.

You seem to feel the need to picture yourself as "smarter" or somehow
better than thosewho make different choices, and this is why the left
will always ailienate the middle class, and cannot hold power.

If people on the left continue to hold "holier than thou" attitudes about
the great unwashed, we will always cede power to the corrupt plutocracy,
who at least goes to the trouble to pretend to care about their fears.

Now I see what you were trying to say.

Bernard

Mark Jones said:

I have a low opinion of eco geeks who want to tell other people how
to live their lives.

You probably consider yourself a conservative then. And perhaps you
think it's OK for the Bush "base" to tell other people how they should
live their lives.

George Conklin said:

My Suburban sees daily use of low 4-wheel drive
so I don't tear up my hill.

That is consistent with my point-- if you weren't trying to lift a
Suburban up the hill, you wouldn't need 4WD. A lightweight car can do
quite well with just two drive wheels.

Chalo Colina

In article <[email hidden]>,

the black rose said:

Sorry Chalo, some driveways need big vehicles with plenty of clearance.
You couldn't get into the last farm we owned with anything smaller
than an F-150 4x4.

Why not just fix the driveway?

I could do it for you.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mike Kruger said:

This is a good point. START!

That's the hard part for a lot of people.

Getting into antagonistic arguments about how cycling is,
or can be superior to driving, doesn't help matters either.
Nor does the converse. An intelligent and rational
discussion might, though.

That'll be the day.

Anyhow, if anyone decides to try riding a bike to the
supermarket or laundromat or wherever instead of driving,
I encourage them, & give them a thumbs-up, instead of
berating and brow-beating them for burning gasoline to
move a 2-to-3-or-more-ton chariot the rest of the time.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

George Conklin said:

Quoted message said:

> This is a working car.

It certainly is.

Precisely what I wrote. Got it?

Hey, I'm just agreein' with ya.

BTW, the ladies really resent the term, 'wench'.
If I were you I'd use it sparingly (if at all);
otherwise it might affect productivity.

So, what kind of upholstery do you have --
leopard-skin, or pearl Naugahyde?

Lion skin. It wears better. And a snake around the rearview mirror too.

"H. M. Leary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Frank Krygowski

<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

George Conklin said:

My Suburban sees daily use of low 4-wheel drive
so I don't tear up my hill. The neighbor who mows his grandparents'

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

parents' graves next to the house always comes in with a 4-wheel

drive, and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so does the Xmas tree farmer across the way. In the summer, you can

make it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on 2-wheel drive if you don't mind throwing stones all over the place

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

put up with a little skidding. But then again I got stuck with a

2-wheel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

drive Suburban in the field one summer day when it was damp. I

really need

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a wench on the front of the thing.

:-)

No, no, no. You need _two_ wenches on the _back_ of the thing. You
know, chrome naked wenches in silhouette on the mud flaps. Goes just
great with a rebel flag window decal and a Bud Lite bumper sticker.

The epitome of sophisticated art - if you're an SUV kinda guy! ;-)

Frank:

You must be one of them good ole boys from rural Georgia!

He must mean in the back seat!!

"Mark Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Chalo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

George Conklin said:

"Mark Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>
> I bought my 4x4 because I wanted it.

I got mine because I needed it. Otherwise, I would not have

purchased

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it.

Mark loves his gas hog so much he drives it less than five miles to
work-- twice-- every day.

He has a different sense of community responsibility and citizenship
than lots of us; unfortunately there are many millions of others who
think like he does. Each one of them does not inflict so much damage
to be of great concern (except to the people who are killed and maimed
in collisions with them, and their loved ones), but collectively, they
are a pandemic social disaster.

I really do think that you are kind of funny, in a pathetic kind of way.
You want everyone to conform to your way of doing things and you
get upset because you know it isn't going to happen.

As a side note, I only drive my vehicles about 600 miles a month
between the two of them. I know people who drive more than
that every week and I support their right to do it.

I have a low opinion of eco geeks who want to tell other people
how to live their lives.

But then you must lack virtue, which only those on a crusade have.

"Tim McNamara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark Jones said:

I have a low opinion of eco geeks who want to tell other people how
to live their lives.

You probably consider yourself a conservative then. And perhaps you
think it's OK for the Bush "base" to tell other people how they should
live their lives.

People used to have crusades based on religion. But these days religion
in the West is slow, so environmentalism is a good substitute for urbanites
who think that food grows in the aisles of supermarkets.

"Mitch Haley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

RJ said:

Before I call you liar, what minivan is it that gets 40 mpg highway?

I have no idea what Baker is talking about, but you could do it
with a stick shift 1984 Dodge Caravan. A diesel Vanagon would be
right up there too. In today's market, I don't know of anything,
unless you want to call a Toyota Matrix a minivan.

Mitch.

No you would NOT get therere with a K-car in any shape or form.

"RJ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mitch Haley said:

RJ said:

Before I call you liar, what minivan is it that gets 40 mpg highway?

I have no idea what Baker is talking about, but you could do it
with a stick shift 1984 Dodge Caravan.

40? No way. Size and shape make it impossible.

Besides that, even with a K car and a 4 cylinder engine and a manual
5-speed, you would not get better than 32. If you add in the shape and wind
drag of a van, it is going to be about 28 at best.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A diesel Vanagon would be
right up there too. T

Nope. The diesel Jetta is over 40, but the Passat is under 40, and both
of them have vastly better aerodynamic shapes than a minivan.

Quoted message said:

In today's market, I don't know of anything,
unless you want to call a Toyota Matrix a minivan.

Evidently it was just a troll.

"Chalo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bernard Farquart said:

"Chalo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The proliferation of giant cars, and trucks used solely as personal
cars, is an extension of class hostility.

That is a pretty stupid statement, vehicle size has been
much larger in the past (60's 70's) so the poor can certainly
afford, and sometimes can only afford large vehicles.

I doubt you will.find a car much larger than the 5300 Lb
Lincoln MarkV I drove when I was younger(and poorer)

Your understanding of class hostility is fundamentally flawed. When
poor and average income folks acquire conspicuous possessions they
believe will make then appear wealthier and more successful than they
are, they are participating in the same system of class hostility that
keeps them down. And of course when they make do with the
hand-me-downs of a more affluent class, their choice of possessions is
a matter of what the secondhand market provides for the price they are
able to pay. But the giant and noxious cars were originally
manufactured to serve a supercilious and classist market, and whether
that market is actually wealthy or not is immaterial-- It is still a
classist market.

You may have driven a tank of a car when you were of meager means, but
you were driving a cast-off relic of the original buyer's pretensions
and/or arrogance. The car was not made huge and gauche so you, as a
subsquent owner, would buy it.

Correspondingly, it may be tradesmen and other nominally working class
people to whom gigantic and vulgar trucks are marketed, but those
people buy them to address their notions about the class they aspire
to, and to differentiate themselves from those they hold in contempt.

To take the example out of the vehicular realm, it is not upper class
people who can be seen in public wearing a lot of showy gold jewelry.
Those who wear that kind of jewelry do so because to them it gives the
impression of riches. That's an expression of class hostility even if
it is also a sign of sublimated self-contempt.

Chalo Colina

What drivel. The big cars were manufactured because they were much more
comfortable than econoboxes.

"Mitch Haley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Matthew Russotto said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

DonQuijote1954 said:

Hey good question, "What would Jesus had driven before an accident?"

Best answer I've seen is "A panel van with 'Nazarene and Son,
Carpenters' stenciled on the side."

I always thought the obvious answer to "What would Jesus drive?" was
"Sandals".

It was 'an ass.'

"Edward Dike, III" <edd(2+1)[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mitch Haley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| Matthew Russotto wrote:
| >
| > In article <[email hidden]>,
| > DonQuijote1954 <[email hidden]> wrote:
| > >
| > >Hey good question, "What would Jesus had driven before an accident?"
| >
| > Best answer I've seen is "A panel van with 'Nazarene and Son,
| > Carpenters' stenciled on the side."
|
| I always thought the obvious answer to "What would Jesus drive?" was
| "Sandals".

I've always wondered what kind of plastic figurine would be on his dash
board...

ED3

No doubt a plastic ass.

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:37:46 GMT, "Bernard Farquart"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<ugo0d.30$xH1.5@trnddc03>:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think many, probably most, large cars, as with SUVs, started off for
the rich and percolated down through the second hand market.

Quoted message said:

True, but the second hand market is *larger* than the new car market,
and large cars have been available to the poor since the thirties, so at any
point in time, there have been big "safer" cars available to the "poor".

Not disputed. "Safer" in this case meaning safety conferred on the
driver at the expense of anybody / anything he hits - particularly
when the large car is an SUV.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The
knock-on effects of poor SUV stability and fuel economy are going to
get much worse when they hit the young male driver market and suffer
neglect while being driven hard.

Quoted message said:

That ship has sailed, my friend.

Too true. Two decades of letting the manufacturers get away with it
will probably cause a generation of pain.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

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