Add extra balls to headset

Quoted message said:

My old no-name headset had 36 ball bearings, 18 above, 18 below. It has extremely light "shadows"
in the bottom race where the balls sat.

The shadows are a form of headset wear/failure called brinelling, partly caused by the fact that the
balls don't move much in a headset.

Quoted message said:

It appears there is plenty of room between ball bearings, I thought changing the ball count might
prolong its life, so I installed 44 ball bearings.

Good thinking, as more balls will spread the load a headest sees, better.

Quoted message said:

Does the group think this has any downside?

Nope, see above. Fill each race with as many balls as possible, and then remove approximately two or
three, to allow the balls free movement (to prevent further brinelling.)

Russell

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Jeff said:

My old no-name headset had 36 ball bearings, 18 above, 18 below. It has extremely light "shadows"
in the bottom race where the balls sat.

It appears there is plenty of room between ball bearings, I thought changing the ball count might
prolong its life, so I installed 44 ball bearings.

Does the group think this has any downside?

I've done that before... I don't think it would hurt. I think I did it was on a freewheel... hmmm...
can't remember.

<< My old no-name headset had 36 ball bearings, 18 above, 18 below. It has extremely light "shadows"
in the bottom race where the balls sat. It appears there is plenty of room between ball bearings, I
thought changing the ball count might prolong its life, so I installed 44 ball bearings. >>

Sure, you can do that to "beef up" the headset. Insert as many balls into the race as will
physically fit, and then remove one.

If you "balls" are in a retainer (cage), then that's actually pertially the cause for the
brinnelling (the spots on the cups/cones) The retainer forces the balls to pound away on the same
spot, instead of letting them move about freely.

If they are in a retainer (cage), remove the balls from the cage, or get a bunch of new loose balls
(same size). Repack the cup with grease, install as many balls as will freely fit. Don't squeeze any
in, there should be a little space between the last two balls. You'll notice a real improvement.

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": geocities.comczcornerOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

The retainer forces the balls to pound away on the same spot, instead of letting them move
about freely.

No HS bearing, caged or loose, movs around the races. At the most you turn a quarter tuen from
straight ahead, not enough to cause the bearings to migrate. Phil Brown

Jeff who? said:

My old no-name headset had 36 ball bearings, 18 above, 18 below. It has extremely light "shadows"
in the bottom race where the balls sat.

draco.acs.uci.edu8f.13.htmlOpen ↗

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

Mike Krueger said:

<< My old no-name headset had 36 ball bearings, 18 above, 18 below. It has extremely light
"shadows" in the bottom race where the balls sat. It appears there is plenty of room between ball
bearings, I thought changing the ball count might prolong its life, so I installed 44 ball
bearings. >>

Sure, you can do that to "beef up" the headset. Insert as many balls into the race as will
physically fit, and then remove one.

Why remove one? This is starting to sound like bicycle myth and folklore.

Mark McMaster [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

My old no-name headset had 36 ball bearings, 18 above, 18 below. It has extremely light "shadows"
in the bottom race where the balls sat.

"Russell Yim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]... The shadows are a form of
headset wear/failure called brinelling, partly caused by the fact that the balls don't move much
in a headset.

I used to think that but the FAQ makes a compelling argument that that's not true. The eroded areas
are not areas smashed into the part. Please see: draco.acs.uci.edu8f.13.htmlOpen ↗

Neither

--
Andrew Muzi yellowjersey.orgyellowjersey.orgOpen ↗ Open every day since 1 April 1971

Jeff-<< It appears there is plenty of room between ball bearings, I thought changing the ball count
might prolong its life, so I installed 44 ball bearings.

Does the group think this has any downside?

Remove the old bearings and cage they came in, grease the cup, add balls of the same size until all
are in the cup and touching, remove one ball...

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

A Muzi said:

"Russell Yim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]... The shadows are a form of
headset wear/failure called brinelling, partly caused by the fact that the balls don't move much
in a headset.

I used to think that but the FAQ makes a compelling argument that that's not true.

The FAQ doesn't dispute that. It just points out that "Brinelling" isn't caused by impacts, even
though it's still obviously referred to by that erroneous name on a regular basis.

The root cause is that balls don't migrate. You can see the same sort of problem on some rear
suspension swing-arm bearings too. Ball races just aren't designed for repeated movement over a
small arc, with no large scale movement.

Changing their number will at least reduce some of the "indexing" (should it have got to that
stage), because they're less likely to be sitting in the same positions as previously. A headset
previously running with a cage has a lot of space for an extra ball or two.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Mark-<< Why remove one? This is starting to sound like bicycle myth and folklore.

Cuz if they touch, they will ring into each other and kill bearings. This doesn't 'beef up' the
headset but extend it's life a bit.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Allowing the balls to touch can increase friction and wear in high speed bearings. This is why high
speed bearings often use bearing retainer rings, despite the fact that the retainers allow fewer
balls to be installed.

Headsets travel at near zero speeds so allowing the balls to touch has no detriment. Headsets are,
however, often under high load, and using a full compliment of balls increases the service load of
the bearings.

It is best to use a full compliment of balls in a headset.

Mark McMaster [email hidden]

Mark McMaster said:

It is best to use a full compliment of balls in a headset.

Try "Ooh, your sphericity is wondrous to behold" - they'll fall for it _every_ time.
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Mike Krueger said:

<< Headsets travel at near zero speeds so allowing the balls to touch has no detriment. Headsets
are, however, often under high load, and using a full compliment of balls increases the service
load of the bearings. It is best to use a full compliment of balls in a headset. Mark McMaster
[email hidden] >>

How do you define a full compliment when debating whether to use 21 or 22 balls in a headset race
that was originally designed for18 balls in a retainer?

It should be pretty obvious when you assemble the headset. The races should seat together
exactly the same way with a full compliment of bearings as it did when the balls were in a
retainer. If, when adding an additional ball, the races no longer seat fully together, then you
have one ball too many.

Mark McMaster [email hidden]