For any bike history buffs

In article
<[email hidden]>,

B.B. said:

http://www.prattandwhitney.com/history.htm

At the bottom of the page are links to a downloadable book of
machinery. Page 40 illustrates two machines, one for grinding cup and
cone bearings, the other for drilling spoke holes in rims.
But I'll warn you it's an 11 Meg file just to see two small, grainy
photos.

Cool. That spoke-drilling machine is inspiring.

I don't know how generally configurable the cup-and-cone machine would
be, but such a piece of hardware would have a good use for the right
bike weenie. There are quite a few hubs out there that are obsolete, and
the inability to find replacement cones is a common problem for those
contemplating restoration.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

B.B. said:

http://www.prattandwhitney.com/history.htm

At the bottom of the page are links to a downloadable book of
machinery. Page 40 illustrates two machines, one for grinding cup and
cone bearings, the other for drilling spoke holes in rims.
But I'll warn you it's an 11 Meg file just to see two small, grainy
photos.

Cool. That spoke-drilling machine is inspiring.

I don't know how generally configurable the cup-and-cone machine would
be, but such a piece of hardware would have a good use for the right
bike weenie. There are quite a few hubs out there that are obsolete, and
the inability to find replacement cones is a common problem for those
contemplating restoration.

I've thought about regrinding the races for one hub using a lathe and
a dremel tool with an appropriately dressed grinding wheel. (put on a
radius a little bigger than the balls meant to roll in it, have the
wheel at an angle to the cone and grind down to size) But I found some
cones that fit OK enough that lazyness took over. Besides, I wasn't
sure if I needed to heat-treat the new surfaces when I finished. That
setup would probably be able to handle a large variety of cones.
A dedicated machine would probably use a pilot spindle to hold the
cone or cup in place, and have a ring-shaped grinding wheel that simply
moves down and contacts the race momentarily. Like valve seat grinding
in engine work. A single wheel could probably be used for both races,
but you'd need a dedicated wheel for each model of hub.
In the end it'd probably be easier to just cut the old cup out of the
hub and install cartridge bearings, though it's not really "restoration"
when you do that.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail.net

B.B. said:

Quoted message said:

I don't know how generally configurable the cup-and-cone machine would
be, but such a piece of hardware would have a good use for the right
bike weenie. There are quite a few hubs out there that are obsolete, and
the inability to find replacement cones is a common problem for those
contemplating restoration.

cones are not typically a problem, since there are a million japanese
hubs out there and ONE of them probably has the right cones for your
vintage hubs. Barnett's bicycle manual has a whole section on how to
substitute one set of cones for another - how to tell if two cones are
a "match".

The web site www.loosescrews.com at my behest recently found
replacement cones / axle sets for both Normandy Sport and Normandy
Competition hubs (although the latter needs replacement axles, too.)

www.wheelsmfg.com sells a lot of axles and cones available to fix your
old worn hubs.

The big question is the cups. Campagnolo used to sell the cups
separately and many campy people still have spares of the cups. This
is why so many nuovo record hubs are still on the road. The only way
ot screw up these hubs permanent is to CUT THE CUPS OUT OF THE HUBS !!
These are press-fit cups guys, like a headset, you need to knock it
out of the hub from the other side, or build a special expansion -
extractor. I've never done it but maybe someone in our audience has ??

I think, too, that the campy cups might also fit similar hubs,
e.g. Normandy or Maillard 700, or perhaps with a little bit of
"convincing" they could be made to fit.

If we could get together enough people to order 1000 units, wheels mfg
is willing to bid on custom runs of parts such as this. Alternately,
you could befriend a MechE student who is learning CNC machining at
your local university .... or learn it yourself and use
www.emachineshop.com.

food for thought.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Donald Gillies) said:

The big question is the cups. Campagnolo used to sell the cups
separately and many campy people still have spares of the cups. This
is why so many nuovo record hubs are still on the road. The only way
ot screw up these hubs permanent is to CUT THE CUPS OUT OF THE HUBS !!
These are press-fit cups guys, like a headset, you need to knock it
out of the hub from the other side, or build a special expansion -
extractor. I've never done it but maybe someone in our audience has ??

Do other brands of hubs use press-in cups, or is this a Campy thing?
IIRC, all of the hubs I've had apart looked like the cup was an integral
part of the hub. But I've only had cheaper, low-end hubs apart.

Quoted message said:

I think, too, that the campy cups might also fit similar hubs,
e.g. Normandy or Maillard 700, or perhaps with a little bit of
"convincing" they could be made to fit.

If we could get together enough people to order 1000 units, wheels mfg
is willing to bid on custom runs of parts such as this. Alternately,
you could befriend a MechE student who is learning CNC machining at
your local university .... or learn it yourself and use
www.emachineshop.com.

Actually, a machining class is on my to-do list next semester. I
dabble right now--with all the requisite unsupervised mistakes and
disasters. (:

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail.net

B.B. said:

Do other brands of hubs use press-in cups, or is this a Campy thing?
IIRC, all of the hubs I've had apart looked like the cup was an integral
part of the hub. But I've only had cheaper, low-end hubs apart.

every last one of them uses press-in cups, if they use cups at all.
Think about it. you have to install steel cups into the hubs. is
there an alternative way to install cups ?? probably not. I've seen
them on dime store 3-speeds.

Those cups aren't easy to see because they are thin, but if you take
you hubs apart, remove the dust caps, and look carefully around the
edge of the cups, or stick a small finger into the center barrel, and
pull it out gently, you can feel both edges of the donut-shaped cups.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Donald Gillies) said:

The big question is the cups. Campagnolo used to sell the cups
separately and many campy people still have spares of the cups. This
is why so many nuovo record hubs are still on the road. The only way
ot screw up these hubs permanent is to CUT THE CUPS OUT OF THE HUBS !!
These are press-fit cups guys, like a headset, you need to knock it
out of the hub from the other side, or build a special expansion -
extractor. I've never done it but maybe someone in our audience has ??

Presumably Jobst Brandt has: He has mentioned in this newsgroup that he
has 200,000 miles or more on his 1970's Campy hubs.

--
Ned Mantei
Department of Cell Biology, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology
CH-8093 Zurich, Switzerland

Ned Mantei said:

Presumably Jobst Brandt has: He has mentioned in this newsgroup that he
has 200,000 miles or more on his 1970's Campy hubs.

I still have a 1979 Record rear hub on one of my bikes
(the front hub had a broken flange many years ago). I'm
not sure how many miles it has, but it's over 100,000.
It's had replacement axles, cones & bearings, but still
the original cups (I didn't even know those could be
replaced). They're somewhat scored, but not so badly
that they can't still be used.

Larry Coon
University of California

Ned Mantei said:

Quoted message said:

The big question is the cups. Campagnolo used to sell the cups
separately and many campy people still have spares of the cups.
This is why so many nuovo record hubs are still on the road. The
only way ot screw up these hubs permanent is to CUT THE CUPS OUT OF
THE HUBS !! These are press-fit cups guys, like a headset, you
need to knock it out of the hub from the other side, or build a
special expansion - extractor. I've never done it but maybe
someone in our audience has ??

Quoted message said:

Presumably Jobst Brandt has: He has mentioned in this newsgroup that
he has 200,000 miles or more on his 1970's Campy hubs.

Most good bicycle shops have an extractor for the cups and can remove
them esily. I have such a puller and have replaced cups that got
damaged.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Ned Mantei said:

Quoted message said:

The big question is the cups. Campagnolo used to sell the cups
separately and many campy people still have spares of the cups.
This is why so many nuovo record hubs are still on the road. The
only way ot screw up these hubs permanent is to CUT THE CUPS OUT OF
THE HUBS !! These are press-fit cups guys, like a headset, you
need to knock it out of the hub from the other side, or build a
special expansion - extractor. I've never done it but maybe
someone in our audience has ??

Quoted message said:

Presumably Jobst Brandt has: He has mentioned in this newsgroup that
he has 200,000 miles or more on his 1970's Campy hubs.

Most good bicycle shops have an extractor for the cups and can remove
them esily. I have such a puller and have replaced cups that got
damaged.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Dear Ned and Jobst,

Only $66:

http://www.bikeusa.com/MERCHANT2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSGI&Product_Code=TL1035&Category_Code=HubTools

ot

http://tinyurl.com/3lk6q

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Donald Gillies) said:

The big question is the cups. Campagnolo used to sell the cups
separately and many campy people still have spares of the cups. This
is why so many nuovo record hubs are still on the road. The only way
ot screw up these hubs permanent is to CUT THE CUPS OUT OF THE HUBS !!
These are press-fit cups guys, like a headset, you need to knock it
out of the hub from the other side, or build a special expansion -
extractor. I've never done it but maybe someone in our audience has ??

(Ned Mantei)> Presumably Jobst Brandt has: He has mentioned
in this newsgroup that he

Quoted message said:

has 200,000 miles or more on his 1970's Campy hubs.

I'm sorry I missed the OP. Replacing bicycle hub cups is
not at all difficult although the economies involved have
made it much less common.

"cut the cups out of the hubs" What does that mean?
"maybe someone . . . has?" has what, wrecked a hub or
replaced a cup?

It's a good habit to turn the axle in one's fingers when a
wheel is out for whatever reason, rebuilding when grit or
roughness is first detected.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>The big question is the cups. Campagnolo used to sell the cups
>separately and many campy people still have spares of the cups.
>This is why so many nuovo record hubs are still on the road. The
>only way ot screw up these hubs permanent is to CUT THE CUPS OUT OF
>THE HUBS !! These are press-fit cups guys, like a headset, you
>need to knock it out of the hub from the other side, or build a
>special expansion - extractor. I've never done it but maybe
>someone in our audience has ??

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ned Mantei said:

Presumably Jobst Brandt has: He has mentioned in this newsgroup that
he has 200,000 miles or more on his 1970's Campy hubs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Most good bicycle shops have an extractor for the cups and can remove
them esily. I have such a puller and have replaced cups that got
damaged.

Quoted message said:

Only $66:
http://www.bikeusa.com/MERCHANT2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=MSGI&Product_Code=TL1035&Category_Code=HubTools
http://tinyurl.com/3lk6q

OK, that would work, I suppose, but so do these:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/HUBCUPTL.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971