Cheney/Edwards on Iraq

bentupright said:

Cheney keeps pointing to Edwards failure to 'factor in' Iraq's OWN contribution to the war. Hey, pinhead, they are SUPPOSED to contribute: ITS THEIR COUNTRY!😄

Hey pinhead you missed his point...However, I will give Edwards one thing...He had an extremely tough job defending John Kerry's positions...As he has more positions than JENNA JAMESON! 😄

The VP debate was very interesting.
I had never heard Cheney speak at length before and I was impressed by the way he articulated his argument.
He had dates and statistics.
Never mind that the statistics he used were wrong (he claimed that the bill for the war wasn't 200 billion - when the budget deficit clearly shows that it is), he was at least able to put a sentance together and to articulate his point.

I believe that he did very well against Edwards on that front - he was able to
counter Edwards points.
I thought Edwards wasn't as good as I had hoped for.

The worrying thing is that both candidates basically repeated the same core issues which Bush/Kerry used in the prior debate.
The same cliches, soundbites, rhethoric.

Halliburton did embarass Cheney though.

Also, what was with them going to their seats and having to sit there writing notes for five minutes ?

On final point, in the summary, Kerry thanked the debate chairwoman and Cheney.
Cheney only thanked the debate moderator.

I still think that overall the Dems are ahead in the debate phase - roll on Friday.

[quote="limerickman"]The VP debate was very interesting.
I had never heard Cheney speak at length before and I was impressed by the way he articulated his argument.
He had dates and statistics.

Quoted post said:

Never mind that the statistics he used were wrong (he claimed that the bill for the war wasn't 200 billion - when the budget deficit clearly shows that it is), he was at least able to put a sentance together and to articulate his point.

Quoted post said:

Halliburton did embarass Cheney though.

Quoted post said:

On final point, in the summary, Kerry thanked the debate chairwoman and Cheney. Cheney only thanked the debate moderator.

Quoted post said:

I still think that overall the Dems are ahead in the debate phase - roll on Friday.

limerickman said:

The VP debate was very interesting.
I had never heard Cheney speak at length before and I was impressed by the way he articulated his argument.
He had dates and statistics.
Never mind that the statistics he used were wrong (he claimed that the bill for the war wasn't 200 billion - when the budget deficit clearly shows that it is), he was at least able to put a sentance together and to articulate his point.

I believe that he did very well against Edwards on that front - he was able to
counter Edwards points.
I thought Edwards wasn't as good as I had hoped for.

The worrying thing is that both candidates basically repeated the same core issues which Bush/Kerry used in the prior debate.
The same cliches, soundbites, rhethoric.

Halliburton did embarass Cheney though.

Also, what was with them going to their seats and having to sit there writing notes for five minutes ?

On final point, in the summary, Kerry thanked the debate chairwoman and Cheney.
Cheney only thanked the debate moderator.

I still think that overall the Dems are ahead in the debate phase - roll on Friday.

I would have to give this one to Cheney and this debate actually kept me awake. Both attacked very agressively and it was definitely not a run away for Cheney but he did do well.
Historically the winner of the first presidential debate loses the election.

jhuskey said:

I would have to give this one to Cheney and this debate actually kept me awake. Both attacked very agressively and it was definitely not a run away for Cheney but he did do well.
Historically the winner of the first presidential debate loses the election.

Well I was impressed with Cheney - he communicated his points well.
The content of some of the points that he made in respect of Iraq, I would differ with him on that.
But, he certainly came across as competent and efficient.
He played a very good card whn he said that he had never sought the top job, which I thought was very honest and very persuasive.

I had assumed that as a trial lawyer that Edwards would have put up a better
performance though.
I did not think that he did do this.

I would have placed Cheney as a marginal winner.

I thought that the debate exposed George Bush though.
His VP is more eloquent and more persuasive.
Me thinks, that perhaps Cheney is in fact in charge at the White House rather than Bush.

limerickman said:

Well I was impressed with Cheney - he communicated his points well.
The content of some of the points that he made in respect of Iraq, I would differ with him on that.
But, he certainly came across as competent and efficient.
He played a very good card whn he said that he had never sought the top job, which I thought was very honest and very persuasive.

I had assumed that as a trial lawyer that Edwards would have put up a better
performance though.
I did not think that he did do this.

I would have placed Cheney as a marginal winner.

I thought that the debate exposed George Bush though.
His VP is more eloquent and more persuasive.
Me thinks, that perhaps Cheney is in fact in charge at the White House rather than Bush.

Ah yes I am glad you reminded me about him being a trial lawyer. I deal with frivolous lawsuits daily. I am giving answers to interrogatories at this moment,well when I finish tying this I will,.
The runaway jury awards are driving the insurance companies into driving the small business out of business.
Insurance companies merely pass along the increased cost to the public.
A gentleman called me two weeks ago and asked me about a settlement for a personal injury he claimed. He stated that the medical clinic told him to call the place where he got injured and ask them to file with their insurance company since this money did not come out of anyones pocket.

This being the problem. It does come out of my pocket and everyone elses and the settlements are outrageous sometimes.
This is a major part of our inflation the world economy since the re-insurers are generally international and are large financial institutions with diverse investments.
Legislation made it through Congress during the Clinton administration that would limit punitive damages to be only equal to compensatory and special damages.
Mr. Clinton vetoed the bill citing that it would be a slam to product liability control.
Both sides have a plan but the Demos plan to make lawyers responsible to not file frivolous suits by way of a controling commitee seems inadequate to me since I am sure this board or committee would be made up of attorneys.

I like the system in some of the European countries better. You lose you pay the costs. That would stop a lot these BS lawsuits.
Even when juries know there is no liability on the part of the defendant they are likely to make a large award if the injury is severe because of sympathy to the plantiff.

limerickman said:

Well I was impressed with Cheney - he communicated his points well.
The content of some of the points that he made in respect of Iraq, I would differ with him on that.
But, he certainly came across as competent and efficient.
He played a very good card whn he said that he had never sought the top job, which I thought was very honest and very persuasive.

I had assumed that as a trial lawyer that Edwards would have put up a better
performance though.
I did not think that he did do this.

I would have placed Cheney as a marginal winner.

I thought that the debate exposed George Bush though.
His VP is more eloquent and more persuasive.
Me thinks, that perhaps Cheney is in fact in charge at the White House rather than Bush.

I had the same thoughts. I give Cheney the edge in this debate simply because I like his low key debating style and he absolutely commands respect.

I think Edwards held his own. I would be very intimidated going up against Cheney and I think he did a respectable job.

The entire time I was watching the debate I kept thinking "why isn't this guy (Cheney) the president instead of Shrub?" I don't like his policy positions and I think he was dead wrong about Iraq, but I do respect him. He is articulate, knowledgeable and has impressive experience.

Why is everyone so impressed that the candidates know statistics and facts? All the questions are known in advance and you can be sure all the candidates have teams working on assembling their debating points.

Yeah, I'd have to give a marginal win to Cheney. He was able to present his facts and knowledge across in a commanding way, even if they were dubious or outright FALSE. ("I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11."😉 😕 But I suspected he would do fairly well. Still, Edwards didn't do badly.

Edwards kept repeating the main points out of his stump speeches. All good points, but nothing new. Which, when compared to Cheney (who NO ONE really knows anything about) made Edwards seem less interesting.

Observations:

1. Anyone else think that Cheney, hunched over and rubbing his hands, remind you a lot of Mr. Burns from "The Simpsons?" He sure sneered alot, didn't he?

2. Edwards, true to tradition, invoked Kerry's name continuously and backed up his running mate. Cheney, however, mentioned Bush maybe once at the end? Sure enforces what people tend to believe about who's really running the White House, doesn't it?

DOC69 said:

Observations:

1. Anyone else think that Cheney, hunched over and rubbing his hands, remind you a lot of Mr. Burns from "The Simpsons?" He sure sneered alot, didn't he?

Anyone else think Edwards looked awfully young? It looked like a young boy talking with his grandfather.

Bikerman2004 said:

Anyone else think Edwards looked awfully young? It looked like a young boy talking with his grandfather.

The guy is, what, 50-something? If I can only look that young when I get up there! There are Congressmen/women out there in their 30's. Think about THAT for awhile! 😄

DOC69 said:

The guy is, what, 50-something? If I can only look that young when I get up there! There are Congressmen/women out there in their 30's. Think about THAT for awhile! 😄

Better hope the American voter thinks that way too. They might want a VP with some experience. Think about that for awhile!
If Edwards was running for president without Kerry, I could very well be persuaded to vote for him. I like his personality and his outlook.

Saucy said:

I had the same thoughts. I give Cheney the edge in this debate simply because I like his low key debating style and he absolutely commands respect.

I think Edwards held his own. I would be very intimidated going up against Cheney and I think he did a respectable job.

The entire time I was watching the debate I kept thinking "why isn't this guy (Cheney) the president instead of Shrub?" I don't like his policy positions and I think he was dead wrong about Iraq, but I do respect him. He is articulate, knowledgeable and has impressive experience.

Why is everyone so impressed that the candidates know statistics and facts? All the questions are known in advance and you can be sure all the candidates have teams working on assembling their debating points.

I was impressed with Cheney, Kerry and Edwards ability to recall dates and
stats.
(the Cheney facts were incorrect but at least he was able to recount what he had been told - as the debate unfolded)
Presumably Bush too was also given facts and dates : but couldn't remember them or recount them during his debate.
A small issue, but this speaks volumes about just what so of inept president Bush actually is.

limerickman said:

I had assumed that as a trial lawyer that Edwards would have put up a better performance though. I did not think that he did do this.

I think the debate structure hinders Edwards. As a trial lawyer there is no time limit for arguments. I think having a time limit forced Edwards to condense many of his arguments, which limits his flair for speaking well. All in all he did ok against Cheney. I wonder if they went into the debate overconfident.

Bikerman2004 said:

I think the debate structure hinders Edwards. As a trial lawyer there is no time limit for arguments. I think having a time limit forced Edwards to condense many of his arguments, which limits his flair for speaking well. All in all he did ok against Cheney. I wonder if they went into the debate overconfident.

You might well be right here, Biker.

I was impressed with Cheney - I thought that he would be gloom and doom and uptight etc.
He came across as a fairly reasonable person (the bit about his daughter being gay, showed a humane side).

I'd never seen the guy speak at length and I was impressed with his eloquence.

limerickman said:

You might well be right here, Biker.

I was impressed with Cheney - I thought that he would be gloom and doom and uptight etc.
He came across as a fairly reasonable person (the bit about his daughter being gay, showed a humane side).

I'd never seen the guy speak at length and I was impressed with his eloquence.

But never forget, the man is bad news. Look at his voting record and how out-of-touch he is with the common folk. He didn't have a choice, in regards to the bit about his daughter; it's either accept it or look like a true ogre. Is there any doubt about what he would believe about gays if his daughter wasn't gay? I didn't think so. Sure he sounds eloquent (dictators, extremist leaders, etc. can sound charismatic and eloquent, too); but what's he thinking? You could almost hear his inside voice saying "Go f--k yourself" to Edwards. 😄 You could see it in his face!

DOC69 said:

But never forget, the man is bad news. Look at his voting record and how out-of-touch he is with the common folk. He didn't have a choice, in regards to the bit about his daughter; it's either accept it or look like a true ogre. Is there any doubt about what he would believe about gays if his daughter wasn't gay? I didn't think so. Sure he sounds eloquent (dictators, extremist leaders, etc. can sound charismatic and eloquent, too); but what's he thinking? You could almost hear his inside voice saying "Go f--k yourself" to Edwards. 😄 You could see it in his face!

Sorry don't agree with your obviously bitter view. How can you be so pompous to assume you know what another person would be like in a given situation.
You nor I have any idea what the mans position would be if his daughter wasn't gay.
Lets try to be objective. I do agree he obviouly doesn, like Edwards but it seems to be mutual.

zapper said:

Hey pinhead you missed his point...However, I will give Edwards one thing...He had an extremely tough job defending John Kerry's positions...As he has more positions than JENNA JAMESON! 😄

It simply reminded me of a person on a recent movie (involving revolution in ancient Greco/Roman times), where he says something like, "You cannot GIVE freedom. You have to be willing and ready to TAKE it...." Much truth in that! The Iraqis didn't exactly have a 'patriotic' militia movement of their own, asking for donations/assistance! The majority of them don't exactly seem to be 'clamoring' for democratic systems there, but rather, their cultural/religious system seems to require flashlights and road maps (the sheer IDEA seems ALIEN to many of them), to say the least! Not exactly akin to OUR motives behind REVOLT, and installation of 'democratic' /representative systems, huh? But, hey, we know what's good for them, right? Sorry, I disagree!

DOC69 said:

But never forget, the man is bad news. Look at his voting record and how out-of-touch he is with the common folk. He didn't have a choice, in regards to the bit about his daughter; it's either accept it or look like a true ogre. Is there any doubt about what he would believe about gays if his daughter wasn't gay? I didn't think so. Sure he sounds eloquent (dictators, extremist leaders, etc. can sound charismatic and eloquent, too); but what's he thinking? You could almost hear his inside voice saying "Go f--k yourself" to Edwards. 😄 You could see it in his face!

Typical ideologically driven Sh!t. Edwards showed a lack of class by bring up Cheney's daughter. The way you responded to the question shows how polarized you are. Are you able to have a logical discussion or do you just resort to cut downs and name calling?

DOC69 said:

But never forget, the man is bad news. Look at his voting record and how out-of-touch he is with the common folk

You are right...Edwards is bad news and his voting record sucks...BTW I am curious as to what local t.v. channel in North Carolina was broadcasting long distance education in the 50's?????

THAT BIT ABOUT HIS FATHER LEARNING MATH AT THE KITCHEN TABLE WAS A LOAD OF [censored] and you all bought it didn't you.....