£500 to spend on an MTB

Doki said:

First things first, this is x-posted to urc and amb.

Right, I've got around £500 to spend on an MTB, to replace my fairly
knackered Giant hardtail. It's liable to be bought secondhand, probably
after much trawlage of the admag until I find one that's been owned by a
numpty who bought a good bike then decided they didn't much want to ride
about on a bike after two goes at it.

Doki, how do you decode your email address from the above?

I have a brand new Specialized I would like to sell, but to be very honest
it is worth more than that.
I'd like to contact you off-list.

ScumOfTheRoad said:

Doki said:

First things first, this is x-posted to urc and amb.

Right, I've got around £500 to spend on an MTB, to replace my fairly
knackered Giant hardtail. It's liable to be bought secondhand,
probably after much trawlage of the admag until I find one that's
been owned by a numpty who bought a good bike then decided they
didn't much want to ride about on a bike after two goes at it.

Doki, how do you decode your email address from the above?

You don't 🙂. ISTR that email doesn't even work any more.

Quoted message said:

I have a brand new Specialized I would like to sell, but to be very
honest it is worth more than that.
I'd like to contact you off-list.

Bung me a mail on doki at clarachron dot co dawt uk, after getting rid of
the chron from that. Paranoid about spam? Moi?

Doki said:

Bung me a mail on doki at clarachron dot co dawt uk, after getting rid of
the chron from that. Paranoid about spam? Moi?

Sorry - that bounces. chlarachron ???

Doki said:

I mostly ride XC type stuff, and my skill level is currently pretty [censored].
So, do I go for £500 worth of hardtail, which should be pretty high spec, or
£500 worth of full sus? The £500 is fairly flexible BTW (could stretch to
£700 or so). Does full sus break in hilariously expensive ways?

If it breaks, it'll be expensive. So I guess that's a "yes", but OTOH
if you break a hardtail frame at the chainstays that won't be exactly
pennies, will it?

Quoted message said:

any particular suspension designs to look out for / avoid? Ideally I'd like
hydraulic disk brakes rather than vees. And I'll want something fairly
solid, as I'm brilliant at breaking things. And the moon on a stick too.

Given that sort of spec and price I'd personally look at a Serious
Hardtail. Also has the advantage in XC that you can stick a normal rack
on it to take the baggage.

Aside from being more of a Known Quantity you don't get stung by the
fact that this year's full sus really probably /is/ better at the design
and engineering level than last, rather than just being a different colour.

<caveat>I'm not exactly Big On MTBs</caveat>

Pete.

--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

ScumOfTheRoad said:

Doki said:

Bung me a mail on doki at clarachron dot co dawt uk, after getting
rid of the chron from that. Paranoid about spam? Moi?

Sorry - that bounces. chlarachron ???

Get rid of the chron bit! clara.co.uk is the domain.

Doki said:

First things first, this is x-posted to urc and amb.

Right, I've got around £500 to spend on an MTB, to replace my fairly
knackered Giant hardtail. It's liable to be bought secondhand,
probably after much trawlage of the admag until I find one that's
been owned by a numpty who bought a good bike then decided they
didn't much want to ride about on a bike after two goes at it.

I mostly ride XC type stuff, and my skill level is currently pretty
[censored]. So, do I go for £500 worth of hardtail, which should be pretty
high spec, or £500 worth of full sus?

A decent Full Sus will cost around £1000 and up. Get a hardtail.

Quoted message said:

The £500 is fairly flexible BTW
(could stretch to £700 or so). Does full sus break in hilariously
expensive ways? Are there any particular suspension designs to look
out for / avoid?

Not really. Most of the designs have been tried and tested for years and
years. Buy from a good brand and you'll be fine.
But of course, as with any suspension system, if you want to keep it in good
condition it'll mean regular maintenance.

Quoted message said:

Ideally I'd like hydraulic disk brakes rather than
vees. And I'll want something fairly solid, as I'm brilliant at
breaking things. And the moon on a stick too.

I'd recommend a Specialized Rockhopper (there are various models).

Quoted message said:

What do I want to go looking for?

I'd recommend getting 2004 models, 2005 ones are just comnig out and 2004
models are being sold off cheap. Back of MTB mags have loads of adverts.

--

Burning_Ranger

To email: [email hidden]

Doki said:

I mostly ride XC type stuff, and my skill level is currently pretty [censored].
So, do I go for £500 worth of hardtail, which should be pretty high spec, or
£500 worth of full sus?

Hardtail. No question. Don't even consider FS unless you've got about
double that budget.

The £500 is fairly flexible BTW (could

Quoted message said:

stretch to £700 or so). Does full sus break in hilariously expensive
ways? Are there any particular suspension designs to look out for /
avoid? Ideally I'd like hydraulic disk brakes rather than vees.

At that price, (decent) hydraulics are out. You should be able to get some
cable discs though.

bomba said:

Doki said:

I mostly ride XC type stuff, and my skill level is currently pretty
[censored]. So, do I go for £500 worth of hardtail, which should be
pretty high spec, or £500 worth of full sus?

Hardtail. No question. Don't even consider FS unless you've got about
double that budget.

I know £1k is the minimum for a FS bike *new*, but second hand prices seem
dramatically lower than new prices, often for bikes that have barely been
used, according to their adverts. I would stretch to £7-800 for the right
bike.

Quoted message said:

The £500 is fairly flexible BTW (could

Quoted message said:

stretch to £700 or so). Does full sus break in hilariously expensive
ways? Are there any particular suspension designs to look out for /
avoid? Ideally I'd like hydraulic disk brakes rather than vees.

At that price, (decent) hydraulics are out. You should be able to get
some cable discs though.

Aren't cable discs a waste of time though? Obviously, you avoid mud clogging
problems, but for the difference in price you might as well go for
hyrdaulic.

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does full sus break in hilariously expensive ways? Are there
any particular suspension designs to look out for / avoid?

Generally speaking the fewer the number of pivots the less to wear out, so
all things being equal a single pivot should be more reliable. Marins
single pivot bearing comes eith a lifetime warranty which is honoured
(Marins true single pivot design is discontinued but the warranty still
applies to the main pivot bearing on later multi link designs).
I have seen Specialized's with cracked chainstays but again there is a good
chance of having these replaced under warranty.
Other than that the shock unit can be expensive to replace if it fails
beyond repair, but I think that's very rare (think £200 or more unless you
downgrade or spot one in a sale).
Some rear shocks are sheltered from rear wheel flung dung whereas others
are right in the firing line, whether this creates a real problem I don't
know but do know what my instincts tell me.

Whether to go hardtail or full suss? Depends on how long your rides are as
much as the intended terrain, assuming off road riding, IMO.
Hardbaked bridleways and field roads will benefit from full suss after a
couple of hours, less than that and the liveliness of a hardtail may be
preferable, conversely I've seen people riding hardtails on enduro events
over rough terrain quite happily, but I wouldn't by choice. It's down to how
masochistic you feel.
All I know is that I wouldn't go back to a hardtail.

Pete

in message <[email hidden]>, Doki

(') said:

First things first, this is x-posted to urc and amb.

Right, I've got around £500 to spend on an MTB, to replace my fairly
knackered Giant hardtail. It's liable to be bought secondhand,
probably after much trawlage of the admag until I find one that's been
owned by a numpty who bought a good bike then decided they didn't much
want to ride about on a bike after two goes at it.

I mostly ride XC type stuff, and my skill level is currently pretty
[censored]. So, do I go for £500 worth of hardtail, which should be pretty
high spec, or £500 worth of full sus?

You won't get a new full suss bike at this price which is worth having.
On the other hand there are second hand bargains out there, if you're
reasonably careful (see advert below). At this money you'll get a very
good hardtail, though. The benefits of full suspension are

(i) It really flatters your ability on tricky technical sections - no
matter how good or bad you are, you will be able to clean sections on a
full suspension bike that you could not on a hard tail;

(ii) It's much more comfortable - you get less battered and can go on
riding for longer/further;

(iii) As a consequence of the first two, you will go faster (I found
myself 10% faster when I switched to full suss).

Quoted message said:

The £500 is fairly flexible BTW
(could stretch to £700 or so). Does full sus break in hilariously
expensive ways?

Two extra ways over and above hardtails. The first and most obvious is
the rear suspension unit itself; these are usually serviceable, cost
about £30 to get serviced, cost around £300 to replace. I haven't yet
had one fail (I have three in my current collection of bikes - all Fox
Floats). The other is bushes. All the good full suss bikes use bushes
(or occasionally bearings) at the suspension pivots. These are
replaceable and the cost is generally fairly inexpensive (but obviously
varies from model to model).

Quoted message said:

Are there any particular suspension designs to look
out for / avoid? Ideally I'd like hydraulic disk brakes rather than
vees. And I'll want something fairly solid, as I'm brilliant at
breaking things. And the moon on a stick too.

What do I want to go looking for?

OK, I don't want to oversell this, but I'm thinking about selling my
Mantra, and a fair price for it would be in your bracket. The Mantra is
a 'classic design', which means it has some very good points but it's a
compromise that most designers haven't chosen to take. Essentially its
very high, far forward rear suspension pivot means it goes up hills
extraordinarily well, but also means that it has fairly extreme brake
induced dive - the whole bike tilts forward under braking which is a
bit unnerving until you get used to it, particularly downhill. It is
_not_ a good downhill bike.

Mine is size 'large', good for people from about 5'10" to probably about
6'4" The frame, rear shock (Fox Float), transmission and controls are
all good (Deore XT deraileurs, 9 speed SRAM cassette, currently 8 speed
SRAM 4 gripshifts so you can't select the smallest sprocket but I have
a set of spare 9 speed XT trigger shifters in the bits box). The forks
(Rock Shox Psylo) are newly serviced and work. It's currently got old
and rather worn Smoke/Dart clone tyres on it, set up for mud, but I've
a pair of almost new Hutchinson Scorpions which could go on it. It has
V brakes and while the rear one (Shimano parallelogram type) is pretty
good the front (Avid) really could do with being replaced (it works OK,
but...).

It is a very good cross country bike. It weighs 27lbs in its current
configuration, which is not up with the very best but isn't bad. It
rides very well, is extremely comfortable, is great on technical
singletrack and especially on climbs; and the frame design looks
amazingly trick, if that matters to you. It also has a completely
amazing amount of rear suspension travel - I think nine inches, but in
any case far more than the four that is usual on cross country designs.
On the other hand it has quirks which do take getting used to.

Why am I selling it? Well, I bought it with the intention of
experimenting with a Rohloff (it has a fixed chainline which most full
suss bikes don't, and consequently converting it to a gearbox bike
would be relatively easy), but I can't afford the Rohloff. It isn't as
good a bike as my Jekyll, which I am most definitely not selling
(although if I do sell the Mantra the money is likely to go to a new
carbon/titanium Lefty for the Jekyll).

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; All in all you're just another hick in the mall
-- Drink C'lloid

RE/

Quoted message said:

Aren't cable discs a waste of time though? Obviously, you avoid mud clogging
problems, but for the difference in price you might as well go for
hyrdaulic.

I've got a Hope C2 on my front wheel. Used to have the same on rear.
Switch to Avid cable for the rear for convenience reasons (swapping rear wheels
necessitated re-aligning the caliper. Hopes were difficult to re-align, Avids
are easy.

For the rear brake, I can still say that the Hope was better...but it wasn't
better enough to make me want to go back.

I tried an Avid on the front for awhile - just so both brakes would be using the
same pads. Dunno if it was the pads or what, but I didn't seem to have
anywhere near as fine modulation; so I went back to the Hope for front use.
--
PeteCresswell

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

First things first, this is x-posted to urc and amb.

Right, I've got around £500 to spend on an MTB, to replace my fairly
knackered Giant hardtail. It's liable to be bought secondhand, probably
after much trawlage of the admag until I find one that's been owned by a
numpty who bought a good bike then decided they didn't much want to ride
about on a bike after two goes at it.

If you gomthe 2nd hand route keep an eye on the classifieds forum at
www.singletrackworld.com - you can pick up a bargain if you know what you
are looking for, and generally everyone is very trustworthy.

Steve.

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I know £1k is the minimum for a FS bike *new*, but second hand prices seem
dramatically lower than new prices, often for bikes that have barely been
used, according to their adverts. I would stretch to £7-800 for the right
bike.

True. Keep your eyes and ears open, over the years I've seen some great
bikes go for a song after the novelty wore off for the original purchaser,
often with little or no real off-road usage.
Sods law decreed they only came up for sale when I either didn't need them
or was skint ;-)

Pete

in message <[email hidden]>, Doki

(') said:

bomba said:

Doki said:

I mostly ride XC type stuff, and my skill level is currently pretty
[censored]. So, do I go for £500 worth of hardtail, which should be
pretty high spec, or £500 worth of full sus?

Hardtail. No question. Don't even consider FS unless you've got about
double that budget.

I know £1k is the minimum for a FS bike *new*, but second hand prices
seem dramatically lower than new prices, often for bikes that have
barely been used, according to their adverts. I would stretch to
£7-800 for the right bike.

This is perfectly true; there are definitely bargains to be had in
second hand full suspension bikes, many of which have genuinely never
been abused. If you're reasonably careful you can definitely find
bargains.

For example, just looking on ebay now for 'completed listings' of
Cannondale Jekylls (my favourite mountain bike - and yes I do ride one)
show second hand prices over the past week ranging from £500[1] up to
£721.50 - and these are bikes which cost upwards of £1700 list price.

Doki - you could seriously do worse than look at one of these.

[1] You needed to spend £621.20 to get one with a Lefty. That's less
than the list price of the fork by itself.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Semper in faecibus sumus, sole profundum variat.

I just bought a Merida Matts Speed disk. I have to say its the nuts
http://www.mukshop.com/merida/matts_speed_d.php comes in at £550. looks good
and there aint many about so it turns heads. unlike other COMMON names. have
a butchers you can get it direct or branches of halfords stock it.

Andy

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

First things first, this is x-posted to urc and amb.

Right, I've got around £500 to spend on an MTB, to replace my fairly
knackered Giant hardtail. It's liable to be bought secondhand, probably
after much trawlage of the admag until I find one that's been owned by a
numpty who bought a good bike then decided they didn't much want to ride
about on a bike after two goes at it.

I mostly ride XC type stuff, and my skill level is currently pretty [censored].
So, do I go for £500 worth of hardtail, which should be pretty high spec,

or

Quoted message said:

£500 worth of full sus? The £500 is fairly flexible BTW (could stretch to
£700 or so). Does full sus break in hilariously expensive ways? Are there
any particular suspension designs to look out for / avoid? Ideally I'd

like

Quoted message said:

hydraulic disk brakes rather than vees. And I'll want something fairly
solid, as I'm brilliant at breaking things. And the moon on a stick too.

What do I want to go looking for?

Further to the last message unlike other comments all the components even
the disk brakes are shimano, flies in the face of other makes.
Andy

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

First things first, this is x-posted to urc and amb.

Right, I've got around £500 to spend on an MTB, to replace my fairly
knackered Giant hardtail. It's liable to be bought secondhand, probably
after much trawlage of the admag until I find one that's been owned by a
numpty who bought a good bike then decided they didn't much want to ride
about on a bike after two goes at it.

I mostly ride XC type stuff, and my skill level is currently pretty [censored].
So, do I go for £500 worth of hardtail, which should be pretty high spec,

or

Quoted message said:

£500 worth of full sus? The £500 is fairly flexible BTW (could stretch to
£700 or so). Does full sus break in hilariously expensive ways? Are there
any particular suspension designs to look out for / avoid? Ideally I'd

like

Quoted message said:

hydraulic disk brakes rather than vees. And I'll want something fairly
solid, as I'm brilliant at breaking things. And the moon on a stick too.

What do I want to go looking for?

andymac said:

Further to the last message unlike other comments all the components
even the disk brakes are shimano, flies in the face of other makes.

The ones who put Hayes ones on? :P

Burning_Ranger said:

Doki said:

First things first, this is x-posted to urc and amb.

Right, I've got around £500 to spend on an MTB, to replace my fairly
knackered Giant hardtail. It's liable to be bought secondhand,
probably after much trawlage of the admag until I find one that's
been owned by a numpty who bought a good bike then decided they
didn't much want to ride about on a bike after two goes at it.

I mostly ride XC type stuff, and my skill level is currently pretty
[censored]. So, do I go for £500 worth of hardtail, which should be pretty
high spec, or £500 worth of full sus?

A decent Full Sus will cost around £1000 and up. Get a hardtail.

Quoted message said:

The £500 is fairly flexible BTW
(could stretch to £700 or so). Does full sus break in hilariously
expensive ways? Are there any particular suspension designs to look
out for / avoid?

Not really. Most of the designs have been tried and tested for years and
years. Buy from a good brand and you'll be fine.
But of course, as with any suspension system, if you want to keep it in good
condition it'll mean regular maintenance.

Quoted message said:

Ideally I'd like hydraulic disk brakes rather than
vees. And I'll want something fairly solid, as I'm brilliant at
breaking things. And the moon on a stick too.

I'd recommend a Specialized Rockhopper (there are various models).

with £5-600 would it be better to get the Rockhopper (basic)
or the HardRock (top model)

Should I resist the tempation to have discs and get the RockHopper
and build it up later ?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What do I want to go looking for?

I'd recommend getting 2004 models, 2005 ones are just comnig out and 2004
models are being sold off cheap. Back of MTB mags have loads of adverts.

--

Burning_Ranger

To email: [email hidden]

Steve

in message <[email hidden]>, Steve Walton

(') said:

Burning_Ranger said:

Doki said:

First things first, this is x-posted to urc and amb.

Right, I've got around £500 to spend on an MTB, to replace my fairly
knackered Giant hardtail. It's liable to be bought secondhand,
probably after much trawlage of the admag until I find one that's
been owned by a numpty who bought a good bike then decided they
didn't much want to ride about on a bike after two goes at it.

I mostly ride XC type stuff, and my skill level is currently pretty
[censored]. So, do I go for £500 worth of hardtail, which should be
pretty high spec, or £500 worth of full sus?

A decent Full Sus will cost around £1000 and up. Get a hardtail.

Quoted message said:

The £500 is fairly flexible BTW
(could stretch to £700 or so). Does full sus break in hilariously
expensive ways? Are there any particular suspension designs to look
out for / avoid?

Not really. Most of the designs have been tried and tested for years
and years. Buy from a good brand and you'll be fine.
But of course, as with any suspension system, if you want to keep it
in good condition it'll mean regular maintenance.

Quoted message said:

Ideally I'd like hydraulic disk brakes rather than
vees. And I'll want something fairly solid, as I'm brilliant at
breaking things. And the moon on a stick too.

I'd recommend a Specialized Rockhopper (there are various models).

with £5-600 would it be better to get the Rockhopper (basic)
or the HardRock (top model)

Should I resist the tempation to have discs and get the RockHopper
and build it up later ?

Frankly, yes. Disks are not the advantage people seem to assume. They
are heavier, more complex and no more powerful. Hydraulic brakes (disk
or not) benefit from better sensitivity, and disk brakes (hydraulic or
not) are better in extremely muddy conditions, but V brakes are at
least equally good under most circumstances.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
/-\ You have discovered a security flaw in a Microsoft product. You
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