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Re: Half marathon, low carb, ignorant questions

Started by Lyndon · · Last activity · 9 posts · 270 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
16 September 2004
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17 September 2004
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Lyndon
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  1. ignoramus26859 said:
    In article vgi2d.203685$Fg5.145484@attbi_s53 said:
    Donovan Rebbechi said:

    >Is it possible to do on a low carb diet, given that I am in a reasonable
    >average condition?

    The problem is muscle glycogen levels. I can't remember if I saw
    the link here or in a *Fit forum but there's a paper out that
    compares muscle glycogen levels in three groups. As I recall:

    carboloaded runners: 60-70 (mg/g?)
    average diet runners: 35-40
    low-carb diet: 15

    You need muscle glycogen to burn fat, and you can't refresh it
    fast enough by eating energy gels. (That doesn't mean they're
    worthless, just not enough to allow you to run indefinitely.)
    Once your muscle glycogen is exhausted you bonk.

    That would be for anaerobic workouts, no?


    For aerobic OR anaerobic workouts, the primary source of energy is glycogen,
    which is what you deny yourself on a low carb diet.

    Quoted message said:

    For aerobic workouts, glucose is supplied to muscles continuously, as
    are fatty acids. Am I mistaken?


    Part of the glycogen is stored in the muscle tissue and part comes from the
    bloodstream. For longer (over 30 minutes) aerobic activity, part of the energy
    comes from fat from the bloodstream. If your glycogen stores are reduced due
    to poor diet (i.e. low carb), then much more of the energy you consume during
    exercise must come from fat sources, or you will hit the wall. The speed you
    can run off primarily fat is MUCH slower than the speed you can run off mostly
    glycogen.

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks. My purpose really is to find how far can I go while being on
    an LC diet... So, quite possibly, I would achieve suboptimal results
    (time to run the half marathon) while on LC, however, it would be
    actually a more interesting experiment to me. "can I run half marathon
    on LC"


    It is not necessarily during a single long run where the effects of the
    low-carb diet is seen. If you run a single long run VERY slowly, you can
    likely do this for 1-2 hours, consuming enough fat to keep your diminished
    glycogen stores from striking zero. But there ia acatche here:

    Dr. David Costil, in his book, "Inside Running: The Basics of Sports
    Physiology" (page 63) has a chart showing the difference on glycogen stores
    from a low versus high carb diet while training everyday. You need 6-10 g/kg
    of carbs every day to keep your glycogen stores up. If you get much less than
    this--and you can't recover the carbs you expended in your last workout from
    your diet before your next workout--your glycogen stores will gradually decline
    EVERY DAY until you finally bonk. It isn't necessarily any one training
    session that will kill you; It is the cumulative effect of a training program.

    Lyndon

    "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach
    Brooks Johnson

  2. "Lyndon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Dr. David Costil, in his book, "Inside Running: The Basics of Sports
    Physiology" (page 63) has a chart showing the difference on glycogen


    stores

    Quoted message said:

    from a low versus high carb diet while training everyday. You need 6-10


    g/kg

    Quoted message said:

    of carbs every day to keep your glycogen stores up. If you get much less


    than

    Quoted message said:

    this--and you can't recover the carbs you expended in your last workout


    from

    Quoted message said:

    your diet before your next workout--your glycogen stores will gradually


    decline

    Quoted message said:

    EVERY DAY until you finally bonk. It isn't necessarily any one training
    session that will kill you; It is the cumulative effect of a training


    program.

    Quoted message said:


    Lyndon

    You haven't done much cell biology have you, 'Big L'? I think a refresher
    course is in order.

  3. Ignoramus26859 said:
    Quoted message said:

    For aerobic OR anaerobic workouts, the primary source of energy is glycogen,
    which is what you deny yourself on a low carb diet.

    Glycogen, but not muscle glycogen, right?

    Yes muscle glycogen. Liver glycogen is mostly for the brain IIRC.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

  4. "np426z" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Lyndon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Dr. David Costil, in his book, "Inside Running: The Basics of Sports
    Physiology" (page 63) has a chart showing the difference on glycogen


    stores

    Quoted message said:

    from a low versus high carb diet while training everyday. You need
    6-10


    g/kg

    Quoted message said:

    of carbs every day to keep your glycogen stores up. If you get much
    less


    than

    Quoted message said:

    this--and you can't recover the carbs you expended in your last
    workout


    from

    Quoted message said:

    your diet before your next workout--your glycogen stores will
    gradually


    decline

    Quoted message said:

    EVERY DAY until you finally bonk. It isn't necessarily any one
    training
    session that will kill you; It is the cumulative effect of a training


    program.

    Quoted message said:


    Lyndon

    You haven't done much cell biology have you, 'Big L'? I think a
    refresher
    course is in order.

    Lyndon's cite matchs the latest science that I have read. Why don't you
    educate us Roger!

    -DougF

  5. Quoted message said:

    You haven't done much cell biology have you, 'Big L'? I think a refresher
    course is in order.

    They banned him after that "public masturbation" incident.

  6. Quoted message said:

    Liver glycogen is mostly for the brain

    Ah, now I understand your problem.

  7. "Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Ignoramus26859 said:
    Quoted message said:

    For aerobic OR anaerobic workouts, the primary source of energy is


    glycogen,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    which is what you deny yourself on a low carb diet.

    Glycogen, but not muscle glycogen, right?

    Yes muscle glycogen. Liver glycogen is mostly for the brain IIRC.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

    Correct. The liver also supplies glucose for the blood as well.

  8. "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You haven't done much cell biology have you, 'Big L'? I think a
    refresher
    course is in order.

    Quoted message said:

    Lyndon's cite matchs the latest science that I have read. Why don't you
    educate us Roger!

    For free? <splutter>

    I had (have) to pay for my education. May I suggest we apply this
    principle to Usenet as well?

  9. "np426z" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    For free? <splutter>

    I had (have) to pay for my education. May I suggest we apply this
    principle to Usenet as well?

    Selfish side step if not total avoidance.

    -DF

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