General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Sad realities of the post-month No-Carb/No-sugar diet

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
31 July 2004
Last activity
11 August 2004
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J-S
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  1. Had been going on the no-sugar & no-carb diet for the past 6 weeks (I'm a
    28yo man)

    Menu:
    fish, meat, chicken, eggs, vegetables (except carrots & potatoes),
    tea/coffee, sour cream, white cheeses, red bull.

    Results:
    * utter loss of energy
    * faint liver pain in the last 4 days, usually in the afternoon and late
    afternoon and after some meals (haven't established the dependency)
    * 20 lbs is gone, I became visibly thin, but fat belt still present around
    the waist & in the belly front

    So here go the questions:

    a) How do you ladies and gents sitting on a low- or no- carb diet balance
    your energy levels. What do you eat to be able to finction? Because I barely
    can - don't want to exersize, have a drop in brain activity, have no desire
    to do anything after work or go anywhere

    b) What might be that vague aching in the liver?

    c) Is it time to add sugar/carbs to the menu, and if so - then in what
    quantity and how to avoid the regeneration of the fat belt layers that have
    been lost in the past month. So far the weight was only going down, which I
    understand is due to lack of building material for fat, so it doesn't get
    recycled, just gets lost.

    Any opinions will be appreciated.

  2. Quoted message said:

    c) Is it time to add sugar/carbs to the menu,

    And the Red Bull you're drinking is...?

    LCing since 12/01/03-
    Me- 5'7" 265/178/140
    & hubby- 6' 310/195/180
    http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

  3. No-sugar, light-blue can. Trying not to drink or not more than 1 can a day.

    "LCer09" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    c) Is it time to add sugar/carbs to the menu,

    And the Red Bull you're drinking is...?

    LCing since 12/01/03-
    Me- 5'7" 265/178/140
    & hubby- 6' 310/195/180
    http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

  4. In article said:

    Had been going on the no-sugar & no-carb diet for the past 6 weeks (I'm a
    28yo man)

    Menu:
    fish, meat, chicken, eggs, vegetables (except carrots & potatoes),
    tea/coffee, sour cream, white cheeses, red bull.

    Does not sound like a NO carb menu.

    Quoted message said:

    Results:
    * utter loss of energy
    * faint liver pain in the last 4 days, usually in the afternoon and late
    afternoon and after some meals (haven't established the dependency)
    * 20 lbs is gone, I became visibly thin, but fat belt still present around
    the waist & in the belly front

    Sounds crazy, and you need to eat more carbs and vegetables.

    Quoted message said:

    So here go the questions:

    a) How do you ladies and gents sitting on a low- or no- carb diet balance
    your energy levels. What do you eat to be able to finction? Because I barely
    can - don't want to exersize, have a drop in brain activity, have no desire
    to do anything after work or go anywhere

    I eat enough carbs to function, myself. These days, I get most of them
    from raw vegetables.

    Quoted message said:

    b) What might be that vague aching in the liver?

    All kinds of things, you need to talk to a doctor, this is not the
    kind of question that can be properly answered here.

    Quoted message said:

    c) Is it time to add sugar/carbs to the menu, and if so - then in what
    quantity and how to avoid the regeneration of the fat belt layers that have
    been lost in the past month. So far the weight was only going down, which I
    understand is due to lack of building material for fat, so it doesn't get
    recycled, just gets lost.

    Try eating a bit more vegetables and fruits,. and increase the
    quantity until you feel better and do not yet gain. Also exercise.

    i

  5. I would get to my doctor as fast as I can because that pain "around your
    liver" could be gall bladder disease from the fat in this diet.

    "J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Had been going on the no-sugar & no-carb diet for the past 6 weeks (I'm a
    28yo man)

    Menu:
    fish, meat, chicken, eggs, vegetables (except carrots & potatoes),
    tea/coffee, sour cream, white cheeses, red bull.

    Results:
    * utter loss of energy
    * faint liver pain in the last 4 days, usually in the afternoon and late
    afternoon and after some meals (haven't established the dependency)
    * 20 lbs is gone, I became visibly thin, but fat belt still present around
    the waist & in the belly front

    So here go the questions:

    a) How do you ladies and gents sitting on a low- or no- carb diet balance
    your energy levels. What do you eat to be able to finction? Because I


    barely

    Quoted message said:

    can - don't want to exersize, have a drop in brain activity, have no


    desire

    Quoted message said:

    to do anything after work or go anywhere

    b) What might be that vague aching in the liver?

    c) Is it time to add sugar/carbs to the menu, and if so - then in what
    quantity and how to avoid the regeneration of the fat belt layers that


    have

    Quoted message said:

    been lost in the past month. So far the weight was only going down, which


    I

    Quoted message said:

    understand is due to lack of building material for fat, so it doesn't get
    recycled, just gets lost.

    Any opinions will be appreciated.

  6. In article said:


    I would get to my doctor as fast as I can because that pain "around your
    liver" could be gall bladder disease from the fat in this diet.

    Here's a quote that indicates the opposite:

    http://www.annecollins.com/diet-news/gallstones-low-cal-diet.htm

    ``Following a diet too low in fat or going for long periods without
    eating (skipping breakfast, for example), a common practice among
    dieters, may also decrease gallbladder contractions. If the
    gallbladder does not contract often enough to empty out the bile,
    gallstones may form.''

    Here's the list of causes of gallstones, none involves eating fat:

    http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/gallstones/index.htm

    What causes gallstones?
    Cholesterol Stones

    Scientists believe cholesterol stones form when bile contains too much
    cholesterol, too much bilirubin, or not enough bile salts, or when the
    gallbladder does not empty as it should for some other reason.
    Pigment Stones

    The cause of pigment stones is uncertain. They tend to develop in
    people who have cirrhosis, biliary tract infections, and hereditary
    blood disorders such as sickle cell anemia in which too much bilirubin
    is formed.
    Other Factors

    It is believed that the mere presence of gallstones may cause more
    gallstones to develop. However, other factors that contribute to
    gallstones have been identified, especially for cholesterol stones.

    * Obesity. Obesity is a major risk factor for gallstones,
    especially in women. A large clinical study showed that being even
    moderately overweight increases one's risk for developing
    gallstones. The most likely reason is that obesity tends to reduce the
    amount of bile salts in bile, resulting in more cholesterol. Obesity
    also decreases gallbladder emptying.

    * Estrogen. Excess estrogen from pregnancy, hormone replacement
    therapy, or birth control pills appears to increase cholesterol levels
    in bile and decrease gallbladder movement, both of which can lead to
    gallstones.

    * Ethnicity. Native Americans have a genetic predisposition to
    secrete high levels of cholesterol in bile. In fact, they have the
    highest rate of gallstones in the United States. A majority of Native
    American men have gallstones by age 60. Among the Pima Indians of
    Arizona, 70 percent of women have gallstones by age 30. Mexican
    American men and women of all ages also have high rates of gallstones.

    * Gender. Women between 20 and 60 years of age are twice as likely
    to develop gallstones as men.

    * Age. People over age 60 are more likely to develop gallstones
    than younger people.

    * Cholesterol-lowering drugs. Drugs that lower cholesterol levels
    in blood actually increase the amount of cholesterol secreted in
    bile. This in turn can increase the risk of gallstones.

    * Diabetes. People with diabetes generally have high levels of
    fatty acids called triglycerides. These fatty acids increase the risk
    of gallstones.

    * Rapid weight loss. As the body metabolizes fat during rapid
    weight loss, it causes the liver to secrete extra cholesterol into
    bile, which can cause gallstones.

    * Fasting. Fasting decreases gallbladder movement, causing the
    bile to become overconcentrated with cholesterol, which can lead to
    gallstones.

  7. How in the world do you know that it is your liver that is hurting you?
    There are a number of organs in your upper abdomen, so it seems to me any
    one of them could be the site of the pain, not even considering the referred
    pain effect where it is felt in a place other than the place of origin.

    Also, you may be coming down with some virus, these things happen regardless
    of what you have been eating and are not necessarily diet related.

    In news:[email hidden],
    J-S <[email hidden]> stated
    | Had been going on the no-sugar & no-carb diet for the past 6 weeks
    | (I'm a 28yo man)
    |
    | Menu:
    | fish, meat, chicken, eggs, vegetables (except carrots & potatoes),
    | tea/coffee, sour cream, white cheeses, red bull.
    |
    | Results:
    | * utter loss of energy
    | * faint liver pain in the last 4 days, usually in the afternoon and
    | late afternoon and after some meals (haven't established the
    | dependency) * 20 lbs is gone, I became visibly thin, but fat belt
    | still present around the waist & in the belly front
    |
    | So here go the questions:
    |
    | a) How do you ladies and gents sitting on a low- or no- carb diet
    | balance your energy levels. What do you eat to be able to finction?
    | Because I barely can - don't want to exersize, have a drop in brain
    | activity, have no desire to do anything after work or go anywhere
    |
    | b) What might be that vague aching in the liver?
    |
    | c) Is it time to add sugar/carbs to the menu, and if so - then in what
    | quantity and how to avoid the regeneration of the fat belt layers
    | that have been lost in the past month. So far the weight was only
    | going down, which I understand is due to lack of building material
    | for fat, so it doesn't get recycled, just gets lost.
    |
    | Any opinions will be appreciated.

  8. "J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Any opinions will be appreciated.

    Did you get a full check-up before starting?

    ~miette

  9. Ignoramus11294 wrote:

    | ``Following a diet too low in fat or going for long periods without
    | eating (skipping breakfast, for example), a common practice among
    | dieters, may also decrease gallbladder contractions. If the
    | gallbladder does not contract often enough to empty out the bile,
    | gallstones may form.''
    |

    Here we go again with the breakfast myth. This is your personal opinion,
    certainly not fact. In fact, it's less than opinion, it's pure fiction that
    not eating breakfast is somehow unhealthy. There are absolutely no facts to
    back this. The concept that skipping breakfast can cause gallstones is
    absolutely ridiculous, and is a gross misrepresentation and twisting of the
    facts. *Extended* fasting can be one of the minor possible contributing
    factors for gallstones. This means going days or weeks with little or no
    food. Eating two healthy meals a day with a few snacks in between is
    certainly sufficient to maintain gall bladder health. In fact, the much
    more significant contributing causes of gallstones are obesity, high
    cholesterol and diabetes. And ll three of these factors can be exacerbated
    by eating more, and by eating more frequently.

    I am 52 years old and have never eaten breakfast. I don't eat until
    lunchtime or later if that's when I start to get hungry. I assure you my
    gall bladder is just fine. I have never had any health problems whatsoever
    from eating my first meal of the day at noon instead of 8 or 9 a.m.

    --
    Peter
    270/215/180
    Before/Current Pix:
    http://users.thelink.net/marengo/weightlosspix/weightlosspix.html

  10. marengo wrote:

    |
    | Here we go again with the breakfast myth. This is your personal
    | opinion, certainly not fact. <snip>

    Sorry, Iggy, after re-reading my post I realized I misspoke -- I meant to
    say that it is the personal opinion of the author of the aricle, not *your*
    personal opinion!
    --
    Peter
    270/215/180
    Before/Current Pix:
    http://users.thelink.net/marengo/weightlosspix/weightlosspix.html

  11. In article said:

    Ignoramus11294 wrote:

    | ``Following a diet too low in fat or going for long periods without
    | eating (skipping breakfast, for example), a common practice among
    | dieters, may also decrease gallbladder contractions. If the
    | gallbladder does not contract often enough to empty out the bile,
    | gallstones may form.''
    |

    Here we go again with the breakfast myth. This is your personal opinion,
    certainly not fact.

    It is not my opinion, it is a quote from a website.

    I have nothing against skipping breakfast, if it works for the
    person. I do not skip breakfast for a simple reason that I am usually
    hungry in the morning, but I sometimes skip lunch if I am not hungry.

    Quoted message said:

    In fact, it's less than opinion, it's pure fiction that not eating
    breakfast is somehow unhealthy. There are absolutely no facts to
    back this. The concept that skipping breakfast can cause gallstones
    is absolutely ridiculous, and is a gross misrepresentation and
    twisting of the facts. *Extended* fasting can be one of the minor
    possible contributing factors for gallstones. This means going days
    or weeks with little or no food. Eating two healthy meals a day
    with a few snacks in between is certainly sufficient to maintain
    gall bladder health. In fact, the much more significant
    contributing causes of gallstones are obesity, high cholesterol and
    diabetes. And ll three of these factors can be exacerbated by
    eating more, and by eating more frequently.

    Fair enough.

    i

  12. In article said:

    marengo wrote:

    |
    | Here we go again with the breakfast myth. This is your personal
    | opinion, certainly not fact. <snip>

    Sorry, Iggy, after re-reading my post I realized I misspoke -- I meant to
    say that it is the personal opinion of the author of the aricle, not *your*
    personal opinion!

    No problem!

    i

  13. "miette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Any opinions will be appreciated.

    Did you get a full check-up before starting?

    ~miette

    Not a full one, but I had my blood, liver, thyroid, hiv, metabolism checked.
    The leucocites were low, aminotransferasa in the liver was high, but it went
    down 50% after the first week of the diet.
    The doctor said it could be because I was drinking daily.
    I haven't been drinking for the past 6 weeks though.

    People in the group may be right - it could be something close to the liver,
    not the actual liver.
    Liver itself never game me any problems before, none of symptoms were ever
    present pointing to that organ.
    Yesterday night drank wine & beer to test it out - no aching. This morning
    woke up, ate cottage cheese - hurts again.
    Very strange.

    Multi-vitamins is also an interesting idea - a lot of people refer to it.
    It just sounds a bit odd to swallow a bunch of chemicals listed on the
    label.

  14. "J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "miette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Any opinions will be appreciated.

    Did you get a full check-up before starting?

    ~miette

    Not a full one, but I had my blood, liver, thyroid, hiv, metabolism


    checked.

    Quoted message said:

    The leucocites were low, aminotransferasa in the liver was high, but it


    went

    Quoted message said:

    down 50% after the first week of the diet.
    The doctor said it could be because I was drinking daily.
    I haven't been drinking for the past 6 weeks though.

    People in the group may be right - it could be something close to the


    liver,

    Quoted message said:

    not the actual liver.
    Liver itself never game me any problems before, none of symptoms were ever
    present pointing to that organ.
    Yesterday night drank wine & beer to test it out - no aching. This morning
    woke up, ate cottage cheese - hurts again.
    Very strange.

    Cottage cheese is a dairy product - have you been checked for lactose
    intolerance?
    Diane

    Quoted message said:


    Multi-vitamins is also an interesting idea - a lot of people refer to it.
    It just sounds a bit odd to swallow a bunch of chemicals listed on the
    label.

  15. Diane Ball said:

    Cottage cheese is a dairy product - have you been checked for lactose
    intolerance?
    Diane

    Ate dairy my entire life in large quantities - white/yellow cheeses, sour
    cream, milk, derivatives like yogurt, kefir et al.
    Never had any issues.

    The previous time I needed to lose weight I actually lost it via eating
    cottage cheese as a base food.

  16. "J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    :
    : "Diane Ball" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : > Cottage cheese is a dairy product - have you been checked for lactose
    : > intolerance?
    : > Diane
    :
    : Ate dairy my entire life in large quantities - white/yellow cheeses, sour
    : cream, milk, derivatives like yogurt, kefir et al.
    : Never had any issues.
    :
    : The previous time I needed to lose weight I actually lost it via eating
    : cottage cheese as a base food.

    Might be your gall bladder is rebelling now.
    Try eating something really fatty and see how you feel. Might be worth having your
    gall bladder checked out if you feel a lot of discomfort in the area of your liver
    afterward.

  17. I have observed the dairy products you list are all massively processed
    products. They all just happen to be enzyme broken down calcium molecules.
    This would definitely be much better than massive consumption of poisonous
    milk.

    "Never had any issues". It can be amazing to see people saying this nonsense
    to stop consuming a product for a few weeks and then switch to saying "Geee,
    I had no idea I had that many problems!"

    I was born with many ailments (not from just milk) and I will be the first
    to attest, You don't know what normal is until you feel better by quiting
    these things you have learned to ignore you whole life.

    "J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Diane Ball said:

    Cottage cheese is a dairy product - have you been checked for lactose
    intolerance?
    Diane

    Ate dairy my entire life in large quantities - white/yellow cheeses, sour
    cream, milk, derivatives like yogurt, kefir et al.
    Never had any issues.

    The previous time I needed to lose weight I actually lost it via eating
    cottage cheese as a base food.

  18. If that's the bladder indeed, which nutritional means could I use to bring
    it back to normal?
    Will red wine be a good solution (which is an acidic fat-breaker).

    "Coleah" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:


    "J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    :
    : "Diane Ball" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : > Cottage cheese is a dairy product - have you been checked for lactose
    : > intolerance?
    : > Diane
    :
    : Ate dairy my entire life in large quantities - white/yellow cheeses,


    sour

    Quoted message said:

    : cream, milk, derivatives like yogurt, kefir et al.
    : Never had any issues.
    :
    : The previous time I needed to lose weight I actually lost it via eating
    : cottage cheese as a base food.

    Might be your gall bladder is rebelling now.
    Try eating something really fatty and see how you feel. Might be worth


    having your

    Quoted message said:

    gall bladder checked out if you feel a lot of discomfort in the area of


    your liver

    Quoted message said:

    afterward.

  19. A lot fat diet will help.

    Alcohol use can go both ways
    http://alcoholresearch.lsuhsc.edu/effects/gall.asp

    Excessive alcohol can cause Pancreatitis.

    -------------------------------
    "J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    :
    : If that's the bladder indeed, which nutritional means could I use to bring
    : it back to normal?
    : Will red wine be a good solution (which is an acidic fat-breaker).
    :
    : "Coleah" <[email hidden]> wrote
    : >
    : > "J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    : > news:[email hidden]...
    : > :
    : > : "Diane Ball" <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : > : > Cottage cheese is a dairy product - have you been checked for lactose
    : > : > intolerance?
    : > : > Diane
    : > :
    : > : Ate dairy my entire life in large quantities - white/yellow cheeses,
    : sour
    : > : cream, milk, derivatives like yogurt, kefir et al.
    : > : Never had any issues.
    : > :
    : > : The previous time I needed to lose weight I actually lost it via eating
    : > : cottage cheese as a base food.
    : >
    : > Might be your gall bladder is rebelling now.
    : > Try eating something really fatty and see how you feel. Might be worth
    : having your
    : > gall bladder checked out if you feel a lot of discomfort in the area of
    : your liver
    : > afterward.
    :
    :

  20. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Gymmy Bob said:

    I have observed the dairy products you list are all massively processed
    products. They all just happen to be enzyme broken down calcium molecules.

    "Calcium molecules." I think we've just demonstrated how much Gymmy
    [censored] knows about chemistry.

    Quoted message said:

    This would definitely be much better than massive consumption of poisonous
    milk.

    I never consume poisonous milk. I just consume the regular kind.

    Milk is not for everyone. Even some children can't consume it without
    adverse effects. But for those of us who do fine on it, kindly stop
    making idiotic statements.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
    were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

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