Sad realities of the post-month No-Carb/No-sugar diet

Hey there -
I can help you with the first question, regarding energy. Even though you
don't feel motivated to work out, sometimes getting to the gym is the trick to
unleashing a burst of energy. Once you start working out, toning your muscles,
sculpting your body, endorphins and other neurotransmitters will be released
from the brain, giving you a natural perk.

You may not experience this immediately, but after a few days of working out
and getting a schedule, your body will thank you and you won't be sapped by
energy anymore.

Give the gym a try - they might offer a one-month trial pass, and there's so
much great equipment you can experiment with and use to tone different ares of
a body. But even if you can't make it to the gym, anything that gets your
heart pumping, blood flowing will keep you healthy and energized.

Good luck!
Jen

I eat carbs in limited amounts and I have never had SO MUCH energy. And it's
not the highs and lows, it's the consistent kind. I no longer have that
after lunch low and I sleep better.

Have you read any books on LC? Some people assume that LC means NO CARBS,
this is not true. We need carbs but we need the good kinds. I suggest
picking up a book on the subject.

Eva

"J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Had been going on the no-sugar & no-carb diet for the past 6 weeks (I'm a
28yo man)

Menu:
fish, meat, chicken, eggs, vegetables (except carrots & potatoes),
tea/coffee, sour cream, white cheeses, red bull.

Results:
* utter loss of energy
* faint liver pain in the last 4 days, usually in the afternoon and late
afternoon and after some meals (haven't established the dependency)
* 20 lbs is gone, I became visibly thin, but fat belt still present around
the waist & in the belly front

So here go the questions:

a) How do you ladies and gents sitting on a low- or no- carb diet balance
your energy levels. What do you eat to be able to finction? Because I

barely

Quoted message said:

can - don't want to exersize, have a drop in brain activity, have no

desire

Quoted message said:

to do anything after work or go anywhere

b) What might be that vague aching in the liver?

c) Is it time to add sugar/carbs to the menu, and if so - then in what
quantity and how to avoid the regeneration of the fat belt layers that

have

Quoted message said:

been lost in the past month. So far the weight was only going down, which

I

Quoted message said:

understand is due to lack of building material for fat, so it doesn't get
recycled, just gets lost.

Any opinions will be appreciated.

Actually I see a solid decline in energy in the past week or so.
After the first weeks I was going to work out by myself every day, I was
going to discos every night - both was something I haven't done in a long
time - I had a heightened level of energy compared to before.

But lately it's just gone.

"Sobe203" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey there -
I can help you with the first question, regarding energy. Even though you
don't feel motivated to work out, sometimes getting to the gym is the

trick to

Quoted message said:

unleashing a burst of energy. Once you start working out, toning your

muscles,

Quoted message said:

sculpting your body, endorphins and other neurotransmitters will be

released

Quoted message said:

from the brain, giving you a natural perk.

You may not experience this immediately, but after a few days of working

out

Quoted message said:

and getting a schedule, your body will thank you and you won't be sapped

by

Quoted message said:

energy anymore.

Give the gym a try - they might offer a one-month trial pass, and there's

so

Quoted message said:

much great equipment you can experiment with and use to tone different

ares of

Quoted message said:

a body. But even if you can't make it to the gym, anything that gets your
heart pumping, blood flowing will keep you healthy and energized.

Good luck!
Jen

I read Atkins' own book with a lot of mathematics in it, calculations & very
complex menus.
My diet initially was a superset of Atkins, I also excluded sugar, malts &
yeasts in any form, like straight sugar, wine, beer, sweeteners - so I
wasn't reading in very closely.

Which carbs do you eat in limited, and what percentage of your diet does it
account for?
The question is if that amount is absolute (like x grams per day) or
relative (like 10% of the rest of the daily menu)?

"Eva" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I eat carbs in limited amounts and I have never had SO MUCH energy. And

it's

Quoted message said:

not the highs and lows, it's the consistent kind. I no longer have that
after lunch low and I sleep better.

Have you read any books on LC? Some people assume that LC means NO CARBS,
this is not true. We need carbs but we need the good kinds. I suggest
picking up a book on the subject.

Eva

It's a tumor.

--
Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. -- MFW

"J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Had been going on the no-sugar & no-carb diet for the past 6 weeks (I'm a
28yo man)

Menu:
fish, meat, chicken, eggs, vegetables (except carrots & potatoes),
tea/coffee, sour cream, white cheeses, red bull.

Results:
* utter loss of energy
* faint liver pain in the last 4 days, usually in the afternoon and late
afternoon and after some meals (haven't established the dependency)
* 20 lbs is gone, I became visibly thin, but fat belt still present around
the waist & in the belly front

So here go the questions:

a) How do you ladies and gents sitting on a low- or no- carb diet balance
your energy levels. What do you eat to be able to finction? Because I

barely

Quoted message said:

can - don't want to exersize, have a drop in brain activity, have no

desire

Quoted message said:

to do anything after work or go anywhere

b) What might be that vague aching in the liver?

c) Is it time to add sugar/carbs to the menu, and if so - then in what
quantity and how to avoid the regeneration of the fat belt layers that

have

Quoted message said:

been lost in the past month. So far the weight was only going down, which

I

Quoted message said:

understand is due to lack of building material for fat, so it doesn't get
recycled, just gets lost.

Any opinions will be appreciated.

Do you take any medications? I had to stop a calcium blocker (for blood
pressure) when I had first made some progress on Atkins, I was feeling
very lethargic late in the day. Don't know about liver pain but high
protein can be hard on kidneys. Drink lots of water.

J-S said:

Had been going on the no-sugar & no-carb diet for the past 6 weeks (I'm a
28yo man)

Menu:
fish, meat, chicken, eggs, vegetables (except carrots & potatoes),
tea/coffee, sour cream, white cheeses, red bull.

Results:
* utter loss of energy
* faint liver pain in the last 4 days, usually in the afternoon and late
afternoon and after some meals (haven't established the dependency)
* 20 lbs is gone, I became visibly thin, but fat belt still present around
the waist & in the belly front

So here go the questions:

a) How do you ladies and gents sitting on a low- or no- carb diet balance
your energy levels. What do you eat to be able to finction? Because I barely
can - don't want to exersize, have a drop in brain activity, have no desire
to do anything after work or go anywhere

b) What might be that vague aching in the liver?

c) Is it time to add sugar/carbs to the menu, and if so - then in what
quantity and how to avoid the regeneration of the fat belt layers that have
been lost in the past month. So far the weight was only going down, which I
understand is due to lack of building material for fat, so it doesn't get
recycled, just gets lost.

Any opinions will be appreciated.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Had been going on the no-sugar & no-carb diet for the past 6 weeks (I'm a
28yo man)

Which diet is that? This is a LOW-carb group, not NO-carb. If you do not have a
specific plan, you may be doing something wrong.

Quoted message said:

Menu:
fish, meat, chicken, eggs, vegetables (except carrots & potatoes),
tea/coffee, sour cream, white cheeses, red bull.

Eggs, vegetables and sour cream all contain carbs.

Quoted message said:

Results:
* utter loss of energy
* faint liver pain in the last 4 days, usually in the afternoon and late
afternoon and after some meals (haven't established the dependency)
* 20 lbs is gone, I became visibly thin, but fat belt still present around
the waist & in the belly front

The first thing that comes to my mind is that you might not be getting enough
water. Being dehydrated can sap you of energy and cause all kinds of aches and
pains. Being in ketosis acts as somewhat of a diuretic, so it's even MORE
important to make sure you are well-hydrated if you are low-carbing. The second
thing is to find out how many carbs YOU need to function well AND lose weight.

Quoted message said:

b) What might be that vague aching in the liver?

It could be a low-level virus, which would also explain the loss of energy. The
dehydration thing applies here, too.

Quoted message said:

c) Is it time to add sugar/carbs to the menu, and if so - then in what

It's never really a good time to add sugar to the menu other than in minute
amounts that aren't easily avoided. Sugar is a BAD thing. You need to COUNT
your carbs so that you know how many you are taking in and if you need more or
less of them. I am on Atkins so I can only speak from that point of view. On
Atkins, you have a maximum of 20 carbs per day for the first two weeks. After
that, you move into Ongoing Weight Loss (OWL) and move up to 25 carbs per day for
a week. Each subsequent week you add more carbs until you either stop losing
weight or are knocked out of ketosis, at which point you back down by 5 carbs and
stay at that level. That's why it's important to KNOW the nutritional info on
what you are taking in. I use an Excel spreadsheet to keep track of it all, but
Fitday.com is an excellent place to start, and it's FREE -- it's also spam-free
-- I created an email address JUST for registering with Fitday and I have NEVER
received spam on it, even after a YEAR.

Quoted message said:

quantity and how to avoid the regeneration of the fat belt layers that have
been lost in the past month. So far the weight was only going down, which I
understand is due to lack of building material for fat, so it doesn't get
recycled, just gets lost.

The impressive loss of weight during the first week or two is mostly due to
water. Each molecule of emergency glycogen in the liver is bound to 4-5
molecules of water, so as the glyogen store is depleted, the extra water is shed.
Once that happens, THEN the body turns to FAT as it's primary source for energy,
so losing fat takes a little longer. That's another reason to KNOW how many
carbs you are taking in. If you take in too many, the glycogen store in the
liver will start to refill and the water weight will start to accumulate again.
It's not FAT, but it CAN be discouraging to see the weight gain, not to mention
that the body will STOP burning fat as its primary source of fuel until the
glycogen is used up again. This knowledge also comes in handy as one approaches
one's goal weight because then you need to start adding more carbs to find out
what it will take to MAINTAIN that weight AFTER the glycogen store refills

I HIGHLY recommend reading a book on whichever low-carb plan you want to do --
going low-carb without knowing HOW, other than what the media (God help us ALL
because they NEVER get it right) or word of mouth tells you, may be worse than
not doing it at all. In the meantime check websites (such as
http://www.atkins.com/.

BTW, welcome to the group :-)

--
Saffire
205/149/125 - 5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

J-S said:

Had been going on the no-sugar & no-carb diet for the past 6 weeks (I'm a
28yo man)

Hi there J-S,

so, almost 10 kg gone in 6 weeks - not bad at all!

Are you sure you meant that your liver hurts (not your kidney? - in that
case maybe it is time to drink more water).

Red Bull is hideous stuff - although with Jägermeister it's not such bad
a drink 🙂 Although the rumour goes that a couple of teenagers in Sweden
or Denmark just recently died due to drinking that mixture - so maybe
it's not such a good idea after all... "Red Bull gives you wings", yeah 😉

Anyway, I would replace that Red Bull with some green vegetables. After
all, Red Bull is a so-called energy drink, and if you are trying to lose
weight, you really do not need to ingest any more extra energy, right?

Wishing you the best of luck with your endeavours,

Sincerely,
Mark / Finland

You don't meantion any multivitamins. Atkins flat out says that doing
extreme low carb deprives the body of essential nutrients and until
you can work up to higher levels of carbs it is vital to take them. He
recommends upping vegetables to get back to a good nutritional
balance.

A common problem and one I still have whenever I forget to take vits
is muscles cramps--everywhere. Feet, legs, ribs, stomach, chest, back,
I even got these miniscule pinches(not painful at all) in my chest
which totally freaked me out. They only happen when I don't do vits-so
I know there is a serious lack of nutrient issue for me.

I also find that when I slip out of the habit of taking vits my weight
loss slows. I just picked up the daily vits again and my weight is
dropping again. May be coincidence--maybe not.

I found that a one-a-day simply wasn't enough. Atkins' own Dieters
Advantage was helpful. It happens to replace some of the vitamins that
I know the U.S. government requires to be added to most breads. Since
low-carbers remove this food group, you are in essence not taking a
the government mandated multivitamin that gets sneaked into our diet.
Enriched breads were required by law in late 30-early 40's because of
diseases that came out due to the switch to white flour and
manufactured breads. The process stripped nutrients out of the
american diet. SInce then the gov uses breads as an equalizer--adding
nutrients when it detects shortages in the population.

J-S said:

Had been going on the no-sugar & no-carb diet for the past 6 weeks (I'm a
28yo man)

Menu:
fish, meat, chicken, eggs, vegetables (except carrots & potatoes),
tea/coffee, sour cream, white cheeses, red bull.

Results:
* utter loss of energy
* faint liver pain in the last 4 days, usually in the afternoon and late
afternoon and after some meals (haven't established the dependency)
* 20 lbs is gone, I became visibly thin, but fat belt still present around
the waist & in the belly front

So here go the questions:

a) How do you ladies and gents sitting on a low- or no- carb diet balance
your energy levels. What do you eat to be able to finction? Because I barely
can - don't want to exersize, have a drop in brain activity, have no desire
to do anything after work or go anywhere

b) What might be that vague aching in the liver?

c) Is it time to add sugar/carbs to the menu, and if so - then in what
quantity and how to avoid the regeneration of the fat belt layers that have
been lost in the past month. So far the weight was only going down, which I
understand is due to lack of building material for fat, so it doesn't get
recycled, just gets lost.

Any opinions will be appreciated.

DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)
350/275/Jun-275/200
Atkins since Jan 12, 2004
Maint.-70 carbs/day (CCLL=50-60)

Damn it, I just remembered I said earlier that I shall not try to offer
any advice to anyone. Well, they say to err is human 😄

<snip>
"J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I read Atkins' own book with a lot of mathematics in it, calculations &

very

Quoted message said:

complex menus.

Really? I don't remember anything complex about. Are you sure you mean
Atkins and not The Zone?

Quoted message said:

My diet initially was a superset of Atkins, I also excluded sugar, malts &
yeasts in any form, like straight sugar, wine, beer, sweeteners - so I
wasn't reading in very closely.

It's odd that you would give up those things but drink red bull

Quoted message said:

Which carbs do you eat in limited, and what percentage of your diet does

it

Quoted message said:

account for?
The question is if that amount is absolute (like x grams per day) or
relative (like 10% of the rest of the daily menu)?

You need to find the balance that works for you. Everyone is different, some
can eat more carbs than others, some can have caffine with no problems,
others can't.

You didn't mention water. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR ALL PEOPLE IS
WATER!!! You would be surprise how different you feel when you are hydrated.
Many people mistake hunger for thrist.

There are plenty of good books out there. Pick one up and it will explain
everything clearly.
Good luck to you.

Quoted message said:

"Eva" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I eat carbs in limited amounts and I have never had SO MUCH energy. And

it's

Quoted message said:

not the highs and lows, it's the consistent kind. I no longer have that
after lunch low and I sleep better.

Have you read any books on LC? Some people assume that LC means NO

CARBS,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this is not true. We need carbs but we need the good kinds. I suggest
picking up a book on the subject.

Eva

"J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Actually I see a solid decline in energy in the past week or so.
After the first weeks I was going to work out by myself every day, I was
going to discos every night - both was something I haven't done in a long
time - I had a heightened level of energy compared to before.

But lately it's just gone.

Are you sleeping enough?

J-S said:

I read Atkins' own book with a lot of mathematics in it, calculations & very
complex menus.

Please do give the book another read. The "very complex menus", these are
not a prescription, these are just recipes suitable for various phases of
the diet.

Quoted message said:

My diet initially was a superset of Atkins, I also excluded sugar, malts &
yeasts in any form, like straight sugar, wine, beer, sweeteners - so I
wasn't reading in very closely.

Quoted message said:

Which carbs do you eat in limited, and what percentage of your diet does it
account for?
The question is if that amount is absolute (like x grams per day) or
relative (like 10% of the rest of the daily menu)?

Again, this is answered in the book. In possibly more succint form it is
also available online in many places, including How to Do Atkins:
http://atkins.com/howto/

You may be low on potassium, this can cause the symptoms of fatigue and
weakness you are describing. Focus on potassium-rich foods and watch your
salt intake. You may want to switch to Morton's mixed salt sodium
chloride/potassium chloride. A good test is to mix some with water and
drink it. If it tastes really goo-ood, you need that potassium.

You may also want to try one of the Atkins shake varieties (and nobody
give me grief about these 'frankenfoods', okay? I've found they work just
fine for occasional use). Chocolate Royale in particular packs 850mg of
potassium. If you're short on potassium, you will know very quickly since
you get an almost immediate boost once you've restored it.

As for "liver pain" - if you don't go see your doctor, at least call in
and talk to him/her or a nurse practitioner to see if they think you need
to be seen.

You didn't mention how much you have to lose or if you have any other
health problems, but a diet of any kind is a pretty drastic
'intervention', especially if you're very overweight. A checkup and chat
with your doctor is a VERY good idea. And take some time to learn more of
what you need to learn to take good care of yourself.

Dan
325/211/180
Atkins since 1/1/02 (yeah, it was a New Year's Resolution)
Besetting sins: good beer, German bread, and Krispy Kremes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I read Atkins' own book with a lot of mathematics in it, calculations &

very

Quoted message said:

complex menus.

Really? I don't remember anything complex about. Are you sure you mean
Atkins and not The Zone?

Exactly what I was going to say. I don't remember any calculations, other than
counting to 20 and beyond.

LCing since 12/01/03-
Me- 5'7" 265/178/140
& hubby- 6' 310/195/180
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/lcer09/my_photos

"Saffire" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Menu:
fish, meat, chicken, eggs, vegetables (except carrots & potatoes),
tea/coffee, sour cream, white cheeses, red bull.

Eggs, vegetables and sour cream all contain carbs.

Eggs practically don't contain carbs, they are in the very bottom of that
list with lettuce and similar things.
So is the sour cream (under 1g).
It's probably impossible to eat 0g carbs, my initial intent was to get to as
little of it as possible.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Results:
* utter loss of energy
* faint liver pain in the last 4 days, usually in the afternoon and late
afternoon and after some meals (haven't established the dependency)
* 20 lbs is gone, I became visibly thin, but fat belt still present

around

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the waist & in the belly front

The first thing that comes to my mind is that you might not be getting

enough

Quoted message said:

water. Being dehydrated can sap you of energy and cause all kinds of

aches and

Quoted message said:

pains. Being in ketosis acts as somewhat of a diuretic, so it's even MORE
important to make sure you are well-hydrated if you are low-carbing. The

second

Quoted message said:

thing is to find out how many carbs YOU need to function well AND lose

weight.

I don't gulp on water, but I drink in moderation during the day like tea or
Perrier.
The thing is that the first 4-5 weeks I was fine, but the sudden death of
energy and vague pain occurred in the last week.
And I haven't changed my meal plan the entire time.

And thanks for your anwers, by the way.

I drink RB because it has a faint neutral taste, has no sugar and switches
the energy on (the latter started happening only after I stopped eating
sugar, though).
And I have been drinking it for a long-long time almost daily. I'm talking
about maybe 2-3 years, as soon as it appeared in the US. The only difference
now is that I drink a no-sugared version and my diet switched entirely from
all-carb-and-sugar (pastas, butterbrots, pizzaz, cakes, sugar, beer, wine)
to the opposite.

To tell you the truth, I could lose that same weight - 10kg - eating only
sugared stuff (which I have done before), but it's a very painful
experience, since you are actually starving most of time. What was appealing
with Atkins was that you could eat a lot, and yet slowly but steadily lose
weight.

I'll try vegetables, since I really like cucumbers and radishes, although
they first one is fairly rich on carbs.

"Mark from Suomi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

J-S said:

Had been going on the no-sugar & no-carb diet for the past 6 weeks (I'm

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

28yo man)

Hi there J-S,

so, almost 10 kg gone in 6 weeks - not bad at all!

Are you sure you meant that your liver hurts (not your kidney? - in that
case maybe it is time to drink more water).

Red Bull is hideous stuff - although with Jägermeister it's not such bad
a drink 🙂 Although the rumour goes that a couple of teenagers in Sweden
or Denmark just recently died due to drinking that mixture - so maybe
it's not such a good idea after all... "Red Bull gives you wings", yeah 😉

Anyway, I would replace that Red Bull with some green vegetables. After
all, Red Bull is a so-called energy drink, and if you are trying to lose
weight, you really do not need to ingest any more extra energy, right?

Wishing you the best of luck with your endeavours,

Sincerely,
Mark / Finland

"nbtstat -an" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Actually I see a solid decline in energy in the past week or so.
After the first weeks I was going to work out by myself every day, I was
going to discos every night - both was something I haven't done in a

long

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

time - I had a heightened level of energy compared to before.

But lately it's just gone.

Are you sleeping enough?

Same amount as before. Usually more than I should be.

Where are you getting your carb info? Cucumbers have hardly any carbs. For
1 cup, pared, chopped, net carbs -2, for one large cucumber, 8.25" long, net
5 carbs.

In news:[email hidden],
J-S <[email hidden]> stated
| I drink RB because it has a faint neutral taste, has no sugar and
| switches the energy on (the latter started happening only after I
| stopped eating sugar, though).
| And I have been drinking it for a long-long time almost daily. I'm
| talking about maybe 2-3 years, as soon as it appeared in the US. The
| only difference now is that I drink a no-sugared version and my diet
| switched entirely from all-carb-and-sugar (pastas, butterbrots,
| pizzaz, cakes, sugar, beer, wine) to the opposite.
|
| To tell you the truth, I could lose that same weight - 10kg - eating
| only sugared stuff (which I have done before), but it's a very painful
| experience, since you are actually starving most of time. What was
| appealing with Atkins was that you could eat a lot, and yet slowly
| but steadily lose weight.
|
| I'll try vegetables, since I really like cucumbers and radishes,
| although they first one is fairly rich on carbs.
|

USDA nutritient dsatabase
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/index.html

1 cucumber 8-1/4" = 10.93g of carbs, 5g of sugar

"FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Where are you getting your carb info? Cucumbers have hardly any carbs.

For

Quoted message said:

1 cup, pared, chopped, net carbs -2, for one large cucumber, 8.25" long,

net

Quoted message said:

5 carbs.

In news:[email hidden],
J-S <[email hidden]> stated
| I drink RB because it has a faint neutral taste, has no sugar and
| switches the energy on (the latter started happening only after I
| stopped eating sugar, though).
| And I have been drinking it for a long-long time almost daily. I'm
| talking about maybe 2-3 years, as soon as it appeared in the US. The
| only difference now is that I drink a no-sugared version and my diet
| switched entirely from all-carb-and-sugar (pastas, butterbrots,
| pizzaz, cakes, sugar, beer, wine) to the opposite.
|
| To tell you the truth, I could lose that same weight - 10kg - eating
| only sugared stuff (which I have done before), but it's a very painful
| experience, since you are actually starving most of time. What was
| appealing with Atkins was that you could eat a lot, and yet slowly
| but steadily lose weight.
|
| I'll try vegetables, since I really like cucumbers and radishes,
| although they first one is fairly rich on carbs.