Bad Development: Sad realities of the post-month No-Carb/No-sugar diet

I'm no longer on a no-carb in the last weeks. Insterted cucumbers, radishes,
coleslaw, beet & some other vegetables, since it's impossible to eat meat
and fish alone.

Gallstones usually manifest themselves with sharp pains after meal
consumption. My pain is more consistent and dull. Doctors in UC were pretty
convinced that it wasn't the case. In my case self-diagnosis could be the
way to tell the low-qualified medical personnel what to pay attention to.
Like the last LFT (liver function test) didn't include the GGT test, which
very well evaluates the bile duct blokage, if that's the case of the current
problem. So I have to keep reading.

The odd thing is that it's the first time I have a medical problem ever in
35 years. And I always ate whatever was available and never felt any pains
of any kind.

"Ignoramus28438" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorry to hear about your problems accessing medical care.

If you eat beet salad, you are not on a no carb diet and probably eat
enough carbs not to have any low carb related health problems.

I would certainly experiment and add, say, 50 grams of carbs from
fruits like apples, and see if it helps at all. Limit your eating
somewhat not to regain too much. See if that helps. If it does not,
you will know that you have a separate problem.

Have you read about gallstones yet?

Beware that novices tend to diagnose themselves with all kinds of
things, everythign they read seems like it is about them..

Go back to the doctors. I'm not a doctor but I think you need gall bladder
surgery because this happened to somebody I know and that's the diagnosis he
got.

"J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Preface: went on a no-sugar/no-carb diet (where I started inserting carbs
showly). While achieved subst. weight loss, after 5 weeks got pains around
the right lower rib border.

Started eating SmartCarb multivitamin with Biotin (which is supposed to
break excessive protein & fat).
Started drinking mineral water that could stimulate the gall bladder
contractions.

2 days ago visited Urgent Care, was seen by 3 doctors, got blood & urine
tested - they said I was in perfect health and it's a shame that I

bothered

Quoted message said:

them with all the collapsing people in the waiting line.

However, in dynamics (comparing tests before, 1 week into the diet & now)

I

Quoted message said:

see that my total bilirubin levels are going steadily up from the first

day

Quoted message said:

of the diet, alkaline phosphatase is going steadily down, BUN jumped down
and glucose made a jump up in the latest test.
Showed it in Urgent Care, they looked at me like "what is this guy talking
about".

In 10 days pain didn't go away. This morning my tongue was yellow, but

skin

Quoted message said:

wasn't.

Yesterday, when I ate fried fish with beet salad and didn't take the
vitamin, got a vicious reaction - pain in various spots in the proximity

of

Quoted message said:

right lower ribs echoing into belly, lot's of burbing. It calmed down a

bit

Quoted message said:

after I drank couple of mugs of tea, ate some white cheese and took the
vitamin.

If that's an overproduction of bile that's causing this (medics excluded

the

Quoted message said:

bladder stones), is there a way to alter the diet to balance it?
Should I try to stimulate the bladder contractions or instead eat stuff

that

Quoted message said:

causes lower bile production?
Is there any effect in drinking St.-John's wort?

I'm really in panic, that I'm told that I'm so fine, and things are
deteriorating. Lack of medical insurance in the US also doesn't help (my
access to doctors is very limited for that reason).

Has anyone been going through anything like this while on the low-carb?

And lastly - how do can you possibly drink 2 liters of water? I drink a
couple of mugs of black tea - and I feel like it's way too much - and

that's

Quoted message said:

barely 400g. Does this have to be plain water, or could it be mineral like
Perrier, hot tea or juice, for instance?

Sorry if this message is too long.

----- Original Message -----
From: "J-S" <[email hidden]>
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet.low-carb
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 1:53 PM
Subject: Sad realities of the post-month No-Carb/No-sugar diet

Quoted message said:

Had been going on the no-sugar & no-carb diet for the past 6 weeks (I'm

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

28yo man)

Menu:
fish, meat, chicken, eggs, vegetables (except carrots & potatoes),
tea/coffee, sour cream, white cheeses, red bull.

Results:
* utter loss of energy
* faint liver pain in the last 4 days, usually in the afternoon and late
afternoon and after some meals (haven't established the dependency)
* 20 lbs is gone, I became visibly thin, but fat belt still present

around

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the waist & in the belly front

So here go the questions:

a) How do you ladies and gents sitting on a low- or no- carb diet

balance

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

your energy levels. What do you eat to be able to finction? Because I

barely

Quoted message said:

can - don't want to exersize, have a drop in brain activity, have no

desire

Quoted message said:

to do anything after work or go anywhere

b) What might be that vague aching in the liver?

c) Is it time to add sugar/carbs to the menu, and if so - then in what
quantity and how to avoid the regeneration of the fat belt layers that

have

Quoted message said:

been lost in the past month. So far the weight was only going down,

which

Quoted message said:

I

Quoted message said:

understand is due to lack of building material for fat, so it doesn't

get

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

recycled, just gets lost.

Any opinions will be appreciated.

J-S said:

Yesterday, when I ate fried fish with beet salad and didn't take the
vitamin, got a vicious reaction - pain in various spots in the proximity of
right lower ribs echoing into belly, lot's of burbing. It calmed down a bit
after I drank couple of mugs of tea, ate some white cheese and took the
vitamin.

If that's an overproduction of bile that's causing this (medics excluded the
bladder stones), is there a way to alter the diet to balance it?
Should I try to stimulate the bladder contractions or instead eat stuff that
causes lower bile production?

It sounds like the correct area for the gall bladder. It's not clear
what you mean by medics excluding the stones, as it sounds gallstone
related. As bile is released for the purpose of digesting fats,
I suspect the mineral water doing anything for it is myth.

If you went from another diet/style of eating, especially low-fat,
and changed to low-carb, you may have crystallized bile (stones) in
your gall bladder due to not eating much fat and not releasing much
bile. Then eating the amount of fats in a low-carb diet is causing
pain as the stones are interfering with bile release, or being pushed
into the duct. Going off a low-fat diet is often a trigger for
gallstone problems.

Meanwhile gallbladder and liver "flushes" you'll find on the net are
a load of bull. They produce floating, round soft blobs from the
solution of oil, epsom salts and lemon/grapefruit that you drink in
these flushes, which are claimed to be gallstones -- real gallstones
are hard and faceted.

--
jamie ([email hidden])

"There's a seeker born every minute."

You're seeing the wrong type of doctor.

You need a psychologist.

--
You take stupid to a new level. -- MFW

"J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Preface: went on a no-sugar/no-carb diet (where I started inserting carbs
showly). While achieved subst. weight loss, after 5 weeks got pains around
the right lower rib border.

Started eating SmartCarb multivitamin with Biotin (which is supposed to
break excessive protein & fat).
Started drinking mineral water that could stimulate the gall bladder
contractions.

2 days ago visited Urgent Care, was seen by 3 doctors, got blood & urine
tested - they said I was in perfect health and it's a shame that I

bothered

Quoted message said:

them with all the collapsing people in the waiting line.

However, in dynamics (comparing tests before, 1 week into the diet & now)

I

Quoted message said:

see that my total bilirubin levels are going steadily up from the first

day

Quoted message said:

of the diet, alkaline phosphatase is going steadily down, BUN jumped down
and glucose made a jump up in the latest test.
Showed it in Urgent Care, they looked at me like "what is this guy talking
about".

In 10 days pain didn't go away. This morning my tongue was yellow, but

skin

Quoted message said:

wasn't.

Yesterday, when I ate fried fish with beet salad and didn't take the
vitamin, got a vicious reaction - pain in various spots in the proximity

of

Quoted message said:

right lower ribs echoing into belly, lot's of burbing. It calmed down a

bit

Quoted message said:

after I drank couple of mugs of tea, ate some white cheese and took the
vitamin.

If that's an overproduction of bile that's causing this (medics excluded

the

Quoted message said:

bladder stones), is there a way to alter the diet to balance it?
Should I try to stimulate the bladder contractions or instead eat stuff

that

Quoted message said:

causes lower bile production?
Is there any effect in drinking St.-John's wort?

I'm really in panic, that I'm told that I'm so fine, and things are
deteriorating. Lack of medical insurance in the US also doesn't help (my
access to doctors is very limited for that reason).

Has anyone been going through anything like this while on the low-carb?

And lastly - how do can you possibly drink 2 liters of water? I drink a
couple of mugs of black tea - and I feel like it's way too much - and

that's

Quoted message said:

barely 400g. Does this have to be plain water, or could it be mineral like
Perrier, hot tea or juice, for instance?

Sorry if this message is too long.

----- Original Message -----
From: "J-S" <[email hidden]>
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet.low-carb
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 1:53 PM
Subject: Sad realities of the post-month No-Carb/No-sugar diet

Quoted message said:

Had been going on the no-sugar & no-carb diet for the past 6 weeks (I'm

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

28yo man)

Menu:
fish, meat, chicken, eggs, vegetables (except carrots & potatoes),
tea/coffee, sour cream, white cheeses, red bull.

Results:
* utter loss of energy
* faint liver pain in the last 4 days, usually in the afternoon and late
afternoon and after some meals (haven't established the dependency)
* 20 lbs is gone, I became visibly thin, but fat belt still present

around

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the waist & in the belly front

So here go the questions:

a) How do you ladies and gents sitting on a low- or no- carb diet

balance

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

your energy levels. What do you eat to be able to finction? Because I

barely

Quoted message said:

can - don't want to exersize, have a drop in brain activity, have no

desire

Quoted message said:

to do anything after work or go anywhere

b) What might be that vague aching in the liver?

c) Is it time to add sugar/carbs to the menu, and if so - then in what
quantity and how to avoid the regeneration of the fat belt layers that

have

Quoted message said:

been lost in the past month. So far the weight was only going down,

which

Quoted message said:

I

Quoted message said:

understand is due to lack of building material for fat, so it doesn't

get

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

recycled, just gets lost.

Any opinions will be appreciated.

J-S,
In your first letter you said that you were a 28-year old man.

i.e...
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 1:53 PM
Subject: Sad realities of the post-month No-Carb/No-sugar diet

Quoted message said:

Had been going on the no-sugar & no-carb diet for the past 6 weeks (I'm

a

Quoted message said:

28yo man)

Then, in this letter, you said,

"The odd thing is that it's the first time I have a medical problem ever
in
35 years. And I always ate whatever was available and never felt any
pains
of any kind."

----------

I'm beginning to think this is a made up situation.

Why did you say you were a 28 year old man and this is the only time
you've had problems in 35 years? How can this be?

Just
Curious - Becky P.

I'm not sure which you are??

in your first post, to which you are replying, you say you are a 28 year
old man. In your reply to Ig, you said that it is the first time you've
had problems in 35 years. Unfortunately, with the amount of spam and
trolls on this site, it is hard to know if you are even 'for real'.

Just
Curious, - Becky P.
www.family.solidrockpl.org

"J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The odd thing is that it's the first time I have a medical problem ever in
35 years. And I always ate whatever was available and never felt any pains
of any kind.

Interesting....

Why is it your first post says you are a 28yo man, yet in this post you
haven't experienced a medical problem in 35yrs.

Doesn't bode well on my thoughts of you... me thinks you are trolling.

I'm 28. Mistyped probably, my mind is racing, I'm thinking about too many
things at the same time.
I'm not really in the joking mood at this point, and I don't belive anyone
could be making up stories like that.
I'm waking up with pain now.

"JayJay" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The odd thing is that it's the first time I have a medical problem ever

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

35 years. And I always ate whatever was available and never felt any

pains

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of any kind.

Interesting....

Why is it your first post says you are a 28yo man, yet in this post you
haven't experienced a medical problem in 35yrs.

Doesn't bode well on my thoughts of you... me thinks you are trolling.

J-S generously shared with us this little ditty:

Quoted message said:

I'm 28. Mistyped probably, my mind is racing, I'm thinking about too
many things at the same time.
I'm not really in the joking mood at this point, and I don't belive
anyone could be making up stories like that.

You would be surprised. Peruse the archives on various maladies posted
here. Many are outlandish tales from trolls. It's hard not to be
suspicious when we've been burned so many times.

Quoted message said:

I'm waking up with pain now.

Get a second opinion and get it now. Don't rely on us for a diagnosis,
especially if you are in pain. You ought to go back to that
hospital/doctor group and harrass them into doing their job right.

Gallbladder trouble isn't something that devleops quickly so your new
diet would have little to do with it directly-- as jamie says, lowfat
dieting is more likely to have set up the condition in the first place,
and changing your diet away from it (to anything else at all) would have
triggered the symptoms.

--
revek
"I think so, Brain, but *please* don't make me visualize what the
priest isn't wearing underneath his robe!"--from the Lost PatB archives

"J-S" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm no longer on a no-carb in the last weeks. Insterted cucumbers,

radishes,

Quoted message said:

coleslaw, beet & some other vegetables, since it's impossible to eat meat
and fish alone.

Gallstones usually manifest themselves with sharp pains after meal
consumption. My pain is more consistent and dull. Doctors in UC were

pretty

Quoted message said:

convinced that it wasn't the case.

Did they do an ultrasound on your gall bladder?
I just had a friend who had your symptoms and when she finally got an
ultrasound the 'wondering' was over. Now she has to decide if she want
surgery now or wait until it leave her wreathing in horrible constant pain
for hours.

wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm beginning to think this is a made up situation.

Why did you say you were a 28 year old man and this is the only time
you've had problems in 35 years? How can this be?

Just
Curious - Becky P.

Obviously the low carb diet is responsible for aging him 7 years
in a matter of days or weeks. If we could keephim on it for a
month or two maybe we could be rid of him entirely.

ROTFL BJ

revek said:

Gallbladder trouble isn't something that devleops quickly so your new
diet would have little to do with it directly-- as jamie says, lowfat
dieting is more likely to have set up the condition in the first place,
and changing your diet away from it (to anything else at all) would have
triggered the symptoms.

While I agree and support those who encourage you to go and badger for a
second medical opinion, some years ago now I kept getting awful pains in
that area. An ultrasound showed nothing, and I now think that what I
had was what I believe is called intercostal cramp, some kind of muscle
spasm between the ribs. I still occasionally get it, sometimes when
bending forwards to tie my shoelaces, but it passes.
--
Annabel Smyth [email hidden]
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 7 August 2004 - for a limited time, be bored by my holiday
snaps!

[email hidden] (jamie) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

J-S said:

Yesterday, when I ate fried fish with beet salad and didn't take the
vitamin, got a vicious reaction - pain in various spots in the proximity of
right lower ribs echoing into belly, lot's of burbing. It calmed down a bit
after I drank couple of mugs of tea, ate some white cheese and took the
vitamin.

If that's an overproduction of bile that's causing this (medics excluded the
bladder stones), is there a way to alter the diet to balance it?
Should I try to stimulate the bladder contractions or instead eat stuff that
causes lower bile production?

It sounds like the correct area for the gall bladder. It's not clear
what you mean by medics excluding the stones, as it sounds gallstone
related. As bile is released for the purpose of digesting fats,
I suspect the mineral water doing anything for it is myth.

If you went from another diet/style of eating, especially low-fat,
and changed to low-carb, you may have crystallized bile (stones) in
your gall bladder due to not eating much fat and not releasing much
bile. Then eating the amount of fats in a low-carb diet is causing
pain as the stones are interfering with bile release, or being pushed
into the duct. Going off a low-fat diet is often a trigger for
gallstone problems.

Meanwhile gallbladder and liver "flushes" you'll find on the net are
a load of bull. They produce floating, round soft blobs from the
solution of oil, epsom salts and lemon/grapefruit that you drink in
these flushes, which are claimed to be gallstones -- real gallstones
are hard and faceted.

I agree that it might be gallstones. You don't mention your age, but
after 40 almost everyone has them, it's just a matter of whether or
not they get stuck in the bile duct. The stones themselves don't
generally cause a problem as long as they stay in the gall bladder.
You need to see an gastroenterologist and get an ultrasound of your
gall bladder pronto.

J-S wrote:
| Preface: went on a no-sugar/no-carb diet (where I started inserting
| carbs showly). While achieved subst. weight loss, after 5 weeks got
| pains around the right lower rib border.
|

Why bother trying to talk sense to a hypochondriachal cross-posting troll?

Try taking a laxative.
--
Peter
270/215/180
Before/Current Pix:
http://users.thelink.net/marengo/weightlosspix/weightlosspix.html

Quoted message said:

J-S wrote:
| Preface: went on a no-sugar/no-carb diet (where I started inserting
| carbs showly). While achieved subst. weight loss, after 5 weeks got
| pains around the right lower rib border.
|

marengo said:

Why bother trying to talk sense to a hypochondriachal cross-posting troll?

Try taking a laxative.

You need to take a sedative. Cool down, Honcho. You're all over Usenet
blasting people away like a Gatling gun.

MU said:

Quoted message said:

J-S wrote:
| Preface: went on a no-sugar/no-carb diet (where I started inserting
| carbs showly). While achieved subst. weight loss, after 5 weeks got
| pains around the right lower rib border.
|

marengo said:

Why bother trying to talk sense to a hypochondriachal cross-posting troll?

Try taking a laxative.

You need to take a sedative. Cool down, Honcho. You're all over Usenet
blasting people away like a Gatling gun.

<sigh> jealousy is an ugly thing.

Bob

"Annabel Smyth" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

had was what I believe is called intercostal cramp, some kind of muscle
spasm between the ribs. I still occasionally get it, sometimes when
bending forwards to tie my shoelaces, but it passes.

Sounds like a stitch ...

cheers

--
Rachel
(New Zealand)