Re: Low carb and endurance running -- results of my experiment

Ignoramus26859 wrote:
|| In article <[email hidden]>, Phil M. wrote:
||| Ignoramus26859 <[email hidden]> wrote:
|||
|||| So, I asked a question on alt.support.diet.low-carb and
|||| rec.running on whether running a *half marathon* on LC was
|||| possible.
|||
||| Haven't these sort of experiments already been done?
|||
||| Phil M.
|||
||
|| I did some googling and did not find any, so, if you find something,
|| please let me know!
||
|| Also, even if someone did it, I was still curious if *I* can do it.

Rudy!!.....Rudy has done this....she used to report on it right in here....
Google this newsgroup for RRVRR.

Here is an interesting article ... and interesting recipes too

http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/lowcarb/exercise.html

Placid

"Ignoramus26859" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

Ignoramus26859 said:

So, I asked a question on alt.support.diet.low-carb and
rec.running on whether running a *half marathon* on LC was possible.

Haven't these sort of experiments already been done?

Phil M.

I did some googling and did not find any, so, if you find something,
please let me know!

Also, even if someone did it, I was still curious if *I* can do it.

i

Hmmm David ... that's just off the wall wrong .... your statement is wrong
.... wrong ... wrong ... geeezzz

The human brain functions quite nicely on ketones.

Why would you make such a statement without at least doing preliminary
research?

That's why I warn people who come to this newsgroup to take what is said
here with a grain of salt, cross check what is posted here, make sure what
is being stated is true.

Placid

"David" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yes... of course it's possible. Why anyone would want to do it is
another question. You need a minimum of 120 grams of carbs per day just
to support normal brain and muscle function... let alone run a half
marathon. But sure... it's possible. Some guy in London ran a full
marathon wearing an old fashioned diving suit complete with the huge
brass bell on his head and lead boots. He did it... but I don't imagine
he or his body enjoyed it. Much like running on a low carb diet.

--
Nova Scotia, Canada

PlacidBull said:

Hmmm David ... that's just off the wall wrong .... your statement is
wrong
... wrong ... wrong ... geeezzz

The human brain functions quite nicely on ketones.

Why would you make such a statement without at least doing preliminary
research?

That's why I warn people who come to this newsgroup to take what is said
here with a grain of salt, cross check what is posted here, make sure
what
is being stated is true.

Placid

It's entirely incorrect that the human brain needs 120g of carbs a day
just to function. The ONLY time in the last few YEARS I've gotten that
much carb is on my long bike ride days and a few periodic splurges of
carbs. Other than that, I stay well under 120g a day of carbs, and I feel
great. In fact, on low fat, I had the 3pm sleepies, which are completely
gone on low carb. Excessive carbs are very bad for you.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

David wrote:
:: Ignoramus474 <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: Actually, I have been eating around 60 or so carbs per day (a WAG),
::: for 2 months, and would be delighted to take some IQ test to show
::: that my brain function has not become any more impaired than it was
::: at the beginning. I know what my IQ normally works out to, so, it
::: would be interesting to compare.
:::
::: As for the muscle function, I do 50 pushups and 12 pullups per set
::: every day (2 sets of pushups and 3 sets of pullups). If anything,
::: pushups became a bit easier on LC.
::
:: Honeslty, I think you are dishonoring yourself and doing your body a
:: disservice by eating low carb.

Nonsense.

David wrote:
:: "PlacidBull" <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: Why would you make such a statement without at least doing
::: preliminary research?
::
:: I have.

No, you have not.

::
::: That's why I warn people who come to this newsgroup to take what is
::: said here with a grain of salt, cross check what is posted here,
::: make sure what is being stated is true.
::
:: I agree.
::
:: --
:: Nova Scotia, Canada

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 08:16:09 -0400, Roger Zoul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

David wrote:
:: Ignoramus474 <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: Actually, I have been eating around 60 or so carbs per day (a WAG),
::: for 2 months, and would be delighted to take some IQ test to show
::: that my brain function has not become any more impaired than it was
::: at the beginning. I know what my IQ normally works out to, so, it
::: would be interesting to compare.
:::
::: As for the muscle function, I do 50 pushups and 12 pullups per set
::: every day (2 sets of pushups and 3 sets of pullups). If anything,
::: pushups became a bit easier on LC.
::
:: Honeslty, I think you are dishonoring yourself and doing your body a
:: disservice by eating low carb.

Nonsense.

How the heck does one "dishonor oneself" by eating? I've been eating low
carb for a while now, and I have no problems lifting weights or hard bike
riding. I will up my carbs at times (especially on weeks where I ride my
bike one day, lift weights including squats the next day, then ride
60+ miles the third day), but the amount of carbs you "need" is
dramatically different than the common conception.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

Ignoramus26859 wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

Here is an interesting article ... and interesting recipes too

http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/lowcarb/exercise.html

thanks, good article and in line with my experience.

The article says moderate exercise. "Keep in mind however, you should avoid
high-intensity and high-duration exercise..." For me, running is *always*
high enough intensity that I need glycogen to help fuel it. Walking is
different. For each person the intensity of running will be different; even
slow jogging can be muscularly intense for some. I tried low-carb for 6
months and had to cut my exercise workload a great deal. For me it simply
did not work. Some people's physiology may be better adapted to a stricter
low-carb lifestyle.

I found I did not really lose weight on low-carb because I would eat too
many fat calories. Calorie control is the way to go - ask Lance armstrong.
This year I've been eating a not-so-low carb diet, but it does have the
shape of a TKD diet, particularly for the simple carbs that I enjoy - and my
exercise is better than ever. Where is LYLE McDONALD (author of CKD) when
these discussions come up?

- Tony

Ignoramus26859 wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

Here is an interesting article ... and interesting recipes too

http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/lowcarb/exercise.html

thanks, good article and in line with my experience.

The article says moderate exercise. "Keep in mind however, you should avoid
high-intensity and high-duration exercise..." For me, running is *always*
high enough intensity that I need glycogen to help fuel it. Walking is
different. For each person the intensity of running will be different; even
slow jogging can be muscularly intense for some. I tried low-carb for 6
months and had to cut my exercise workload a great deal. For me it simply
did not work. Some people's physiology may be better adapted to a stricter
low-carb lifestyle.

I found I did not really lose weight on low-carb because I would eat too
many fat calories. Calorie control is the way to go - ask Lance armstrong.
This year I've been eating a not-so-low carb diet, but it does have the
shape of a TKD diet, particularly for the simple carbs that I enjoy - and my
exercise is better than ever. Where is LYLE McDONALD (author of CKD) when
these discussions come up?

- Tony

Tony wrote:
:: Ignoramus26859 wrote in message ...
::: In article <[email hidden]>, PlacidBull
::: wrote:
:::: Here is an interesting article ... and interesting recipes too
::::
:::: http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/lowcarb/exercise.html
:::
::: thanks, good article and in line with my experience.
:::
::
:: The article says moderate exercise. "Keep in mind however, you
:: should avoid high-intensity and high-duration exercise..." For me,
:: running is *always* high enough intensity that I need glycogen to
:: help fuel it.

That's the way it is....the same is generally true for me when I do longish
bike rides, then end up being both high intensity and high duration for me.

:: Walking is different. For each person the intensity
:: of running will be different; even slow jogging can be muscularly
:: intense for some.

Right. When I do HIIT walking, it too can be intense.

:: I tried low-carb for 6 months and had to cut my
:: exercise workload a great deal. For me it simply did not work.

If you do a lot of high intensity exercise, you may have problems. TKD is an
option.

:: Some people's physiology may be better adapted to a stricter
:: low-carb lifestyle.

That may indeed be true...

::
:: I found I did not really lose weight on low-carb because I would eat
:: too many fat calories.

Limit calories.

:: Calorie control is the way to go - ask Lance
:: armstrong.

Low carb makes it easier to control calories for many people.

:: This year I've been eating a not-so-low carb diet, but it
:: does have the shape of a TKD diet, particularly for the simple carbs
:: that I enjoy - and my exercise is better than ever.

There are a good number of us here who use either a TKD or a CKD.

:: Where is LYLE
:: McDONALD (author of CKD) when these discussions come up?

He hangs out over in MWF. However, we don't need him for the simple stuff
like this.

Ignoramus474 wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

In article q5C2d.1$9l1.0@trndny09 said:

Ignoramus26859 wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, PlacidBull wrote:
> Here is an interesting article ... and interesting recipes too
>
> http://www.fitnessandfreebies.com/lowcarb/exercise.html

thanks, good article and in line with my experience.

The article says moderate exercise. "Keep in mind however, you should

avoid

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

high-intensity and high-duration exercise..." For me, running is

*always*

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

high enough intensity that I need glycogen to help fuel it. Walking is

I used to need glycogen to run also!

I would run and by the end of half an hour run I would be extremely
tired.

Now, though, I run for 1 hour 35 minutes and I was not tired, my legs
were "as good as new".

Again, I ran at low intensity.

I think that it was a fascinating experiment (for me anyway). I will
definitely run a 1/2 marathon, unfortunately, registration for it is
now closed. My boss is going to run it, as well as the full marathon
(which is also closed for new registrations).

Quoted message said:

different. For each person the intensity of running will be
different; even slow jogging can be muscularly intense for some. I
tried low-carb for 6 months and had to cut my exercise workload a
great deal. For me it simply did not work. Some people's
physiology may be better adapted to a stricter low-carb lifestyle.

Thank you for sharing your relevant personal experience. Maybe I am
somehow more adaptable to LC, it is hard to say, or maybe you like to
run faster than I do. I always liked fat.

Quoted message said:

I found I did not really lose weight on low-carb because I would eat
too many fat calories.

I do not lose weight either, fortunately, as I do not need to lose
weight. But I am eating "to my heart's content", which is extremely
nice to me compared to being somewhat hungry on a moderate carb,
limited calorie diet. I am greatly hoping that this diet will work for
me in the long run. The people on the paleo email mailing list who hd
been on this for a long time are all very happy and relaxed about
their eating, which is great. (there i san obvious selection bias in
that sample of people, but still, it is nice)

Yes actually I learned alot from trying the low-carb, and I leaned toward
the paleo side of it as well. As a result my diet is more balanced and more
satisfying now too.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Calorie control is the way to go - ask Lance armstrong.
This year I've been eating a not-so-low carb diet, but it does have the
shape of a TKD diet, particularly for the simple carbs that I enjoy - and

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

exercise is better than ever. Where is LYLE McDONALD (author of CKD)

when

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

these discussions come up?

Lyle hangs out in misc.fitness.weights...

Yes but Lyle also pokes his head in here sometimes...

- Tony

David said:

Yes... of course it's possible. Why anyone would want to do it is
another question. You need a minimum of 120 grams of carbs per day just
to support normal brain and muscle function... let alone run a half
marathon. But sure... it's possible. Some guy in London ran a full
marathon wearing an old fashioned diving suit complete with the huge
brass bell on his head and lead boots. He did it... but I don't imagine
he or his body enjoyed it. Much like running on a low carb diet.

David, you have answered questions about low-carb several times on the
running newsgroup and always you show that you know little about it.

Please, there is enough [censored] on the internet. If you don't have a clue
about something you are not helping by giving an answer, and most of us
can tell you don't have any accurate or personal information.

Donna

runmum said:

David said:

Yes... of course it's possible. Why anyone would want to do it is
another question. You need a minimum of 120 grams of carbs per day just
to support normal brain and muscle function... let alone run a half
marathon. But sure... it's possible. Some guy in London ran a full
marathon wearing an old fashioned diving suit complete with the huge
brass bell on his head and lead boots. He did it... but I don't imagine
he or his body enjoyed it. Much like running on a low carb diet.

David, you have answered questions about low-carb several times on the
running newsgroup and always you show that you know little about it.

Most runners aren't experts on low carb diets for similar reasons that
bodybuilders are not experts on low protein diets. Optimal nutrition for
running does not involve consuming low amounts of carbs, and most runners
are able to maintain a healthy weight without a restrictive diet, so the
low carb fad simply doesn't have a role to play in nutrition for runners.

HTH,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Ignoramus474 said:

In article said:

runmum said:

David wrote:
> Yes... of course it's possible. Why anyone would want to do it is
> another question. You need a minimum of 120 grams of carbs per day just
> to support normal brain and muscle function... let alone run a half
> marathon. But sure... it's possible. Some guy in London ran a full
> marathon wearing an old fashioned diving suit complete with the huge
> brass bell on his head and lead boots. He did it... but I don't imagine
> he or his body enjoyed it. Much like running on a low carb diet.
>
David, you have answered questions about low-carb several times on the
running newsgroup and always you show that you know little about it.

Most runners aren't experts on low carb diets for similar reasons that
bodybuilders are not experts on low protein diets. Optimal nutrition for
running does not involve consuming low amounts of carbs, and most runners
are able to maintain a healthy weight without a restrictive diet, so the
low carb fad simply doesn't have a role to play in nutrition for runners.

Donovan, suppose that you have two runners, runner A and runner B.

Runner A has an objective to win races and, therefore, builds his life
accordingly.

Runner B has an objective to be healthy, maintain good weight, etc,
and runs recreationally, without wanting to win races.

Would you think that these two persons could have different dieting
requirements, and yet both would be running regularly?

I don't see how "low carb" is a "requirement" except for what amounts to
religious regions. For example, why do your dietary requirements prevent
you from taking in carbs prior to a run ? Is it because there is a well
reasoned argument against taking carbs prior to a long run, or is it in
fact because you have succumbed to the dogma of the low carb cult ? If
there is indeed a well reasoned argument against taking carbs prior to a
run, then what is it ?

Runners do not generally have trouble eating at maintenance, even in the
presence of carbs, because they burn more calories than the average couch
potato.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Ignoramus474 wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>, Donovan Rebbechi
:: wrote:
::: On 2004-09-17, runmum <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::: David wrote:
::::: Yes... of course it's possible. Why anyone would want to do it is
::::: another question. You need a minimum of 120 grams of carbs per
::::: day just to support normal brain and muscle function... let alone
::::: run a half marathon. But sure... it's possible. Some guy in
::::: London ran a full marathon wearing an old fashioned diving suit
::::: complete with the huge brass bell on his head and lead boots. He
::::: did it... but I don't imagine he or his body enjoyed it. Much
::::: like running on a low carb diet.
:::::
:::: David, you have answered questions about low-carb several times on
:::: the running newsgroup and always you show that you know little
:::: about it.
:::
::: Most runners aren't experts on low carb diets for similar reasons
::: that bodybuilders are not experts on low protein diets. Optimal
::: nutrition for running does not involve consuming low amounts of
::: carbs, and most runners are able to maintain a healthy weight
::: without a restrictive diet, so the low carb fad simply doesn't have
::: a role to play in nutrition for runners.
::
:: Donovan, suppose that you have two runners, runner A and runner B.
::
:: Runner A has an objective to win races and, therefore, builds his
:: life accordingly.
::
:: Runner B has an objective to be healthy, maintain good weight, etc,
:: and runs recreationally, without wanting to win races.
::
:: Would you think that these two persons could have different dieting
:: requirements, and yet both would be running regularly?

Yes, depending on the types of races, especially.

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:33:24 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ignoramus474 said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Donovan Rebbechi

Quoted message said:

On 2004-09-17, runmum <[email hidden]> wrote:
> David wrote:
>> Yes... of course it's possible. Why anyone would want to do it is
>> another question. You need a minimum of 120 grams of carbs per day
>> just
>> to support normal brain and muscle function... let alone run a half
>> marathon. But sure... it's possible. Some guy in London ran a full
>> marathon wearing an old fashioned diving suit complete with the huge
>> brass bell on his head and lead boots. He did it... but I don't
>> imagine
>> he or his body enjoyed it. Much like running on a low carb diet.
>>
> David, you have answered questions about low-carb several times on the
> running newsgroup and always you show that you know little about it.

Most runners aren't experts on low carb diets for similar reasons that
bodybuilders are not experts on low protein diets. Optimal nutrition
for
running does not involve consuming low amounts of carbs, and most
runners
are able to maintain a healthy weight without a restrictive diet, so
the
low carb fad simply doesn't have a role to play in nutrition for
runners.

Donovan, suppose that you have two runners, runner A and runner B.

Runner A has an objective to win races and, therefore, builds his life
accordingly.

Runner B has an objective to be healthy, maintain good weight, etc,
and runs recreationally, without wanting to win races.

Would you think that these two persons could have different dieting
requirements, and yet both would be running regularly?

I don't see how "low carb" is a "requirement" except for what amounts to
religious regions. For example, why do your dietary requirements prevent
you from taking in carbs prior to a run ? Is it because there is a well
reasoned argument against taking carbs prior to a long run, or is it in
fact because you have succumbed to the dogma of the low carb cult ? If
there is indeed a well reasoned argument against taking carbs prior to a
run, then what is it ?

Runners do not generally have trouble eating at maintenance, even in the
presence of carbs, because they burn more calories than the average couch
potato.

Cheers,

It's because, for me, the high carb dogma kept me eating huge amounts
(400+) grams of carbs per day even though I was injured. I then developed
insulin resistance and would be a type 2 diabetic, except for low carb. I
went on low carb and I feel so much better than when I was eating a large
amount of carbs per day. Moreover, I have more energy than I did then.
For people predisposed to insulin resistance, high carb is a death
sentence.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
:: On 2004-09-17, Ignoramus474 <[email hidden]> wrote:
::: In article <[email hidden]>, Donovan
::: Rebbechi wrote:
:::: On 2004-09-17, runmum <[email hidden]> wrote:
::::: David wrote:
:::::: Yes... of course it's possible. Why anyone would want to do it is
:::::: another question. You need a minimum of 120 grams of carbs per
:::::: day just to support normal brain and muscle function... let
:::::: alone run a half marathon. But sure... it's possible. Some guy
:::::: in London ran a full marathon wearing an old fashioned diving
:::::: suit complete with the huge brass bell on his head and lead
:::::: boots. He did it... but I don't imagine he or his body enjoyed
:::::: it. Much like running on a low carb diet.
::::::
::::: David, you have answered questions about low-carb several times
::::: on the running newsgroup and always you show that you know little
::::: about it.
::::
:::: Most runners aren't experts on low carb diets for similar reasons
:::: that bodybuilders are not experts on low protein diets. Optimal
:::: nutrition for running does not involve consuming low amounts of
:::: carbs, and most runners are able to maintain a healthy weight
:::: without a restrictive diet, so the low carb fad simply doesn't
:::: have a role to play in nutrition for runners.
:::
::: Donovan, suppose that you have two runners, runner A and runner B.
:::
::: Runner A has an objective to win races and, therefore, builds his
::: life accordingly.
:::
::: Runner B has an objective to be healthy, maintain good weight, etc,
::: and runs recreationally, without wanting to win races.
:::
::: Would you think that these two persons could have different dieting
::: requirements, and yet both would be running regularly?
::
:: I don't see how "low carb" is a "requirement" except for what
:: amounts to religious regions. For example, why do your dietary
:: requirements prevent you from taking in carbs prior to a run ? Is it
:: because there is a well reasoned argument against taking carbs prior
:: to a long run, or is it in fact because you have succumbed to the
:: dogma of the low carb cult ? If there is indeed a well reasoned
:: argument against taking carbs prior to a run, then what is it ?
::
:: Runners do not generally have trouble eating at maintenance, even in
:: the presence of carbs, because they burn more calories than the
:: average couch potato.

Runners don't have problems eating at maintenance because they burn more
calories than the average couch potato?

PLEASE!

Roger Zoul said:

:: Runners do not generally have trouble eating at maintenance, even in
:: the presence of carbs, because they burn more calories than the
:: average couch potato.

Runners don't have problems eating at maintenance because they burn more
calories than the average couch potato?

PLEASE!

Well for whatever reason, none of the people in my running club are fat, and
none of them need low carb diets to stay in shape. The fact that their running
burns 3,000-10,000 calories a week might have *something* to do with it, what
do you think ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Ignoramus474" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
to compare.

Quoted message said:

As for the muscle function, I do 50 pushups and 12 pullups per set
every day (2 sets of pushups and 3 sets of pullups). If anything,
pushups became a bit easier on LC.

Any you measure this how? I'd bet a bundle of money it's because you are
getting stronger simply from doing them and had nothing to do with LC.
Said differently, prove it was LC? Bet you can't!
-DF