ketosis without weight loss

How much do you weigh?
How many calories do you consume per day?

For many, ketosis seems to provide more energy. I'm wondering if your
calories may be too low.

"Skinny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm low-carbing for blood sugar; I don't HAVE much fat reserve. I seem to
have fallen into ketosis by accident. The blood sugar readings are nice

and

Quoted message said:

low (80s/90s) and I feel sharp -- but don't have much energy.

I can't seem to eat enough fat to make enough energy.

Is anyone else here doing anything like this?

Skinny

What's your daily carb intake? ARe you doing any exercise?

Skinny wrote:
|| I'm low-carbing for blood sugar; I don't HAVE much fat reserve. I
|| seem to have fallen into ketosis by accident. The blood sugar
|| readings are nice and low (80s/90s) and I feel sharp -- but don't
|| have much energy.
||
|| I can't seem to eat enough fat to make enough energy.
||
|| Is anyone else here doing anything like this?
||
||
|| Skinny

Ignoramus2203 said:

In article said:

I'm low-carbing for blood sugar; I don't HAVE much fat reserve. I seem to
have fallen into ketosis by accident. The blood sugar readings are nice and
low (80s/90s) and I feel sharp -- but don't have much energy.

I can't seem to eat enough fat to make enough energy.

Is anyone else here doing anything like this?

I switched to low carb diet while being at normal weight. I did it
because, after losing 50 lbs by "eating less and exercising" and
eating moderate carbs, I was hungry too often.

I'm doing it because I'm tired of carb spikes -- followed by long BG
crashes which feel draggy, dull. When the BG stays under 100, if it does
spike it doesn't have so far to fall and gets back sooner to 87 or so, and
I don't feel so dull while it's falling.

Quoted message said:

I am pretty sure, based on common sense, that I am in ketosis.

After feeling fine/sharp for a few days with BGs all day in 80s (and one
morning several readings of 61!), I bought some ketosis strips, and they've
been consistently showing levels of 50-80 or more. I up-carbed a little
last night and today and it was about 40.

Quoted message said:

I had some lower energy period in the first few weeks, nothing major,
and am fine now. /snip/
Not only I have reasonable levels of energy, but, also, last Sunday I
ran a half marathon. All the while being on low carb, without Gatorade.

Could it be that you eat too little, or too low carb?

I'm probably taking too little calories. My stomach gets tired of all the
protein and fat and vegs and won't take any more, so I end up skipping
meals or having very small ones.

Quoted message said:

Can you safely add maybe 10-20 carbs?

Trying it -- but the 'healthy brown' low glycemic load carbs seem to make
me even more dull. So I'm walking a narrow line with carbs. How do you guys
eat enough fat to make enough energy?

Quoted message said:

My blood sugar is now mostly in the 70s. It used to be in the 90s+.

FASting or in day?

Skinny

Ignoramus2203 said:

In article said:

Ignoramus2203 said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Skinny wrote:
> I'm low-carbing for blood sugar; I don't HAVE much fat reserve. I seem to
> have fallen into ketosis by accident. The blood sugar readings are nice and
> low (80s/90s) and I feel sharp -- but don't have much energy.
>
> I can't seem to eat enough fat to make enough energy.
>
> Is anyone else here doing anything like this?

I switched to low carb diet while being at normal weight. I did it
because, after losing 50 lbs by "eating less and exercising" and
eating moderate carbs, I was hungry too often.

I'm doing it because I'm tired of carb spikes -- followed by long BG
crashes which feel draggy, dull. When the BG stays under 100, if it does
spike it doesn't have so far to fall and gets back sooner to 87 or so, and
I don't feel so dull while it's falling.

That's nice. How long have you been lowcarbing?

Off and on for about 6 months. Only went really low in the past couple of
weeks. Someone on alt.support.diabetes talked about 'dirunal variation' and
said he saved his carbs for later in the day. That fitted my experience, so
I decided to go no-carb till after lunch. But I never got around to eating
any carbs later, and the same thing happend the next day iirc, so before I
knew it I'd been about 3 days on almost zilch carbs. Then I noticed I was
getting BGs in the day of 80/90s and feeling fine. Then I bought the
ketosis sticks to check.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I am pretty sure, based on common sense, that I am in ketosis.

After feeling fine/sharp for a few days with BGs all day in 80s (and one
morning several readings of 61!), I bought some ketosis strips, and they've
been consistently showing levels of 50-80 or more. I up-carbed a little
last night and today and it was about 40.

I meant the ketone readings were 50-80, then 40.

Quoted message said:

For me, 61 plasma is nothing to worry about.

I use the Accuchek meter, where 70 is normal fasting and 200 any time is
diabetic. I never got that high.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I had some lower energy period in the first few weeks, nothing major,
and am fine now. /snip/
Not only I have reasonable levels of energy, but, also, last Sunday I
ran a half marathon. All the while being on low carb, without Gatorade.

Could it be that you eat too little, or too low carb?

I'm probably taking too little calories. My stomach gets tired of all the
protein and fat and vegs and won't take any more, so I end up skipping
meals or having very small ones.

try nuts.

I have. Love them, but they're in teh category I get tired of, along with
the protein, fat, vegs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can you safely add maybe 10-20 carbs?

Trying it -- but the 'healthy brown' low glycemic load carbs seem to make
me even more dull. So I'm walking a narrow line with carbs. How do you guys
eat enough fat to make enough energy?

For me, nuts are good. I like brazil nuts...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My blood sugar is now mostly in the 70s. It used to be in the 90s+.

FASting or in day?

Both... During the day, more variation, but I took several evening
readings, and they were in 70s mostly, one 87.

Maybe you are in ketosis. By normal diabetic :-) standards 70s would be too
low to function.

Skinny

Skinny said:

I'm low-carbing for blood sugar; I don't HAVE much fat reserve. I seem to
have fallen into ketosis by accident. The blood sugar readings are nice and
low (80s/90s) and I feel sharp -- but don't have much energy.

I can't seem to eat enough fat to make enough energy.

Is anyone else here doing anything like this?

Skinny

Yes, I am also only low carbing to control blood glucose and found
recently that I had to increase my calorie/fat levels to stop further
weight loss. I started eating more nuts as snacks and drinking more
alcohol - although still in moderation. I drink one or two scotches
before dinner and red wine with all meals. The alcohol is metabolised
first, leaving more reserves for energy. I also increased the amount of
olive oil in foods, i.e., instead of, or as an adjunct to, asparagus or
cauliflower, I shred cabbage and onion, dice lean bacon or ham and cook
it quickly, with olive oil and coarse ground black pepper, in a wok.
Things like this are tasty and add a lot of healthy fat without too many
carbs. I have reintroduced a number of fresh fruits, stone fruits, also
avocados. It has made a distinct difference to energy levels, and
stopped my weight loss, all without affecting blood glucose adversely.

Regards

David

--

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All other mail is automatically deleted.

J. David Anderson said:

Skinny said:

I'm low-carbing for blood sugar; I don't HAVE much fat reserve. I seem to
have fallen into ketosis by accident. The blood sugar readings are nice and
low (80s/90s) and I feel sharp -- but don't have much energy.

I can't seem to eat enough fat to make enough energy.

Is anyone else here doing anything like this?

Skinny

Yes, I am also only low carbing to control blood glucose and found
recently that I had to increase my calorie/fat levels to stop further
weight loss. I started eating more nuts as snacks and drinking more
alcohol - although still in moderation. I drink one or two scotches
before dinner and red wine with all meals. The alcohol is metabolised
first, leaving more reserves for energy.

Hadn't thought of that! But I thought alcohol was carbs, worse than sugar.
Doesnt' it affect your BG?

Quoted message said:

I also increased the amount of
olive oil in foods, i.e., instead of, or as an adjunct to, asparagus or
cauliflower, I shred cabbage and onion, dice lean bacon or ham and cook
it quickly, with olive oil and coarse ground black pepper, in a wok.

Tofu can soak up a lot of oil too.

Quoted message said:

Things like this are tasty and add a lot of healthy fat without too many
carbs. I have reintroduced a number of fresh fruits, stone fruits, also
avocados.

That reminds me of a fruit salad I've seen, with oil and vinegar dressing:
grapefruit, persimmon, banana, apple, avocado. Do vinegar or other acids
sort of 'cut' the oil and make it less cloying, or am I imagining it?

Quoted message said:

It has made a distinct difference to energy levels, and
stopped my weight loss, all without affecting blood glucose adversely.

Hm. I hadn't paid much attention to the talk about different kinds of fats,
and the sort that are solid at room temperature being less healthy (eg
butter, cream, coconut oil). But it is fats like cream, cream cheese, whole
milk yogurt, and coconut milk that I get tired of. Well, and oily meat.
Haven't used the liquid vegetable oils as much.

It's odd, I sort of crave things like sourdough bread and butter, or
popcorn with salt and butter, or pasta with oil and garlic. Not the carbs
alone, nor the oil alone.

Skinny

Skinny said:

J. David Anderson said:

Skinny said:

I'm low-carbing for blood sugar; I don't HAVE much fat reserve. I seem to
have fallen into ketosis by accident. The blood sugar readings are nice and
low (80s/90s) and I feel sharp -- but don't have much energy.

I can't seem to eat enough fat to make enough energy.

Is anyone else here doing anything like this?

Skinny

Yes, I am also only low carbing to control blood glucose and found
recently that I had to increase my calorie/fat levels to stop further
weight loss. I started eating more nuts as snacks and drinking more
alcohol - although still in moderation. I drink one or two scotches
before dinner and red wine with all meals. The alcohol is metabolised
first, leaving more reserves for energy.

Hadn't thought of that! But I thought alcohol was carbs, worse than sugar.
Doesnt' it affect your BG?

No, alcohol itself is zero carb, but not if mixed with fruit juice or
soda, i.e., screwdrivers or rum and coke etc.

It affects it in a positive sense, lowers it. People on medication need
to be careful when drinking alcohol in order to avoid hypos. I only
drink before, or during a meal, never after.

Regards

David

--

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Skinny said:

On 29 Sep 2004 23:46:06 GMT, Ignoramus2203 wrote:

Quoted message said:

I'm probably taking too little calories. My stomach gets tired of all the
protein and fat and vegs and won't take any more, so I end up skipping
meals or having very small ones.

That sounds familiar. I've had problems with anorexia when in ketosis.
Upping the carbs seemed to help over time. There's a fine line between
not being hungry and losing your appetite altogether.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can you safely add maybe 10-20 carbs?

Quoted message said:

Trying it -- but the 'healthy brown' low glycemic load carbs seem to make
me even more dull. So I'm walking a narrow line with carbs. How do you guys
eat enough fat to make enough energy?

Maybe you're asking the wrong question? If it were me, I would suspect
some food intolerance. Have you tried cutting out wheat? I can't add
back more than the very occasional few bites of even the lowed GI wheat
product without getting stupid.

If you are looking to add fats, find some higher-fat foods you enjoy that
you can have as snacks. Nuts work well for a lot of people. Be careful
with peanuts, though. They are a legume, not a nut, and some people don't
tolerate them well.

Dan
325/197/190
Atkins since 1/1/02 (yeah, it was a New Year's Resolution)
Besetting sins: good beer, German bread, and Krispy Kremes

Ignoramus2203 wrote:
|| In article <[email hidden]>, Skinny
|| wrote:
||| On 30 Sep 2004 01:53:33 GMT, Ignoramus2203 wrote:
|||
|||| In article <[email hidden]>, Skinny
|||| wrote:
||||| On 29 Sep 2004 23:46:06 GMT, Ignoramus2203 wrote:
|||||
|||||| In article <[email hidden]>, Skinny
|||||| wrote:
||||||| I'm low-carbing for blood sugar; I don't HAVE much fat reserve.
||||||| I seem to have fallen into ketosis by accident. The blood sugar
||||||| readings are nice and low (80s/90s) and I feel sharp -- but
||||||| don't have much energy.
|||||||
||||||| I can't seem to eat enough fat to make enough energy.
|||||||
||||||| Is anyone else here doing anything like this?
||||||
|||||| I switched to low carb diet while being at normal weight. I did
|||||| it
|||||| because, after losing 50 lbs by "eating less and exercising" and
|||||| eating moderate carbs, I was hungry too often.
|||||
|||||
||||| I'm doing it because I'm tired of carb spikes -- followed by long
||||| BG
||||| crashes which feel draggy, dull. When the BG stays under 100, if
||||| it does spike it doesn't have so far to fall and gets back sooner
||||| to 87 or so, and
||||| I don't feel so dull while it's falling.
||||
|||| That's nice. How long have you been lowcarbing?
|||
||| Off and on for about 6 months. Only went really low in the past
||| couple of weeks. Someone on alt.support.diabetes talked about
||| 'dirunal variation' and said he saved his carbs for later in the
||| day. That fitted my experience, so
||| I decided to go no-carb till after lunch. But I never got around to
||| eating
||| any carbs later, and the same thing happend the next day iirc, so
||| before I knew it I'd been about 3 days on almost zilch carbs. Then
||| I noticed I was getting BGs in the day of 80/90s and feeling fine.
||| Then I bought the
||| ketosis sticks to check.
||
|| can't say much about that...
||
|||||
|||||| I am pretty sure, based on common sense, that I am in ketosis.
|||||
||||| After feeling fine/sharp for a few days with BGs all day in 80s
||||| (and one morning several readings of 61!), I bought some ketosis
||||| strips, and they've been consistently showing levels of 50-80 or
||||| more. I up-carbed a little
||||| last night and today and it was about 40.
|||
||| I meant the ketone readings were 50-80, then 40.
||
|| That's how I understood it.
||
||||
|||| For me, 61 plasma is nothing to worry about.
|||
||| I use the Accuchek meter, where 70 is normal fasting and 200 any
||| time is diabetic. I never got that high.
||
|| Congratulations...
||
|||
|||||| I had some lower energy period in the first few weeks, nothing
|||||| major,
|||||| and am fine now. /snip/
|||||| Not only I have reasonable levels of energy, but, also, last
|||||| Sunday I
|||||| ran a half marathon. All the while being on low carb, without
|||||| Gatorade.
||||||
|||||| Could it be that you eat too little, or too low carb?
|||||
||||| I'm probably taking too little calories. My stomach gets tired of
||||| all the protein and fat and vegs and won't take any more, so I
||||| end up skipping
||||| meals or having very small ones.
|||||
||||
|||| try nuts.
|||
||| I have. Love them, but they're in teh category I get tired of,
||| along with
||| the protein, fat, vegs.
||
|| How about trying a bit of fruits, like a small apple? You could
|| probably handle it fine, let your meter tell you for sure.
||
||
||||
|||||| Can you safely add maybe 10-20 carbs?
|||||
||||| Trying it -- but the 'healthy brown' low glycemic load carbs seem
||||| to make
||||| me even more dull. So I'm walking a narrow line with carbs. How
||||| do you guys eat enough fat to make enough energy?
||||
|||| For me, nuts are good. I like brazil nuts...
||||
|||||
|||||| My blood sugar is now mostly in the 70s. It used to be in the
|||||| 90s+.
|||||
||||| FASting or in day?
||||
|||| Both... During the day, more variation, but I took several evening
|||| readings, and they were in 70s mostly, one 87.
|||
||| Maybe you are in ketosis. By normal diabetic :-) standards 70s
||| would be too low to function.
||
|| They say it's the relative level... My diabetic MIL had a full blown
|| hypoglycemic attack at 70 plasma. I am functioning okay at 59 plasma,
|| IF MY METER IS TO BE BELIEVED. That was my level after the half
|| marathon, I went shopping to a farm supply store, bought a bunch of
|| stuff etc, then drove home. The only symptom of low BG is that I
|| forgot to take a muffler flip cover from the shopping cart, it was
|| stuck where it was hard to notice...
||

low BG is not necessarily a sign of a hypo event. Different people can do
fine on different seemly low BG levels. Typically, it is the rate of BG
drop that brings on symptoms of hypoglycemia, not the absolute level.

Skinny <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm low-carbing for blood sugar; I don't HAVE much fat reserve. I seem to
have fallen into ketosis by accident. The blood sugar readings are nice and
low (80s/90s) and I feel sharp -- but don't have much energy.

I can't seem to eat enough fat to make enough energy.

Is anyone else here doing anything like this?

Skinny

eat more...and maybe include more complex carbs.

This is really intersting, thanks! Sounds like a new resource I might look
into. :-) Appreciate your patience with my wine-newbie questions.

J. David Anderson said:

Skinny said:

J. David Anderson said:

Skinny wrote:

>I'm low-carbing for blood sugar; I don't HAVE much fat reserve. I seem to
>have fallen into ketosis by accident. The blood sugar readings are nice and
>low (80s/90s) and I feel sharp -- but don't have much energy.
>
>I can't seem to eat enough fat to make enough energy.

///

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, I am also only low carbing to control blood glucose and found
recently that I had to increase my calorie/fat levels to stop further
weight loss. I started eating more nuts as snacks and drinking more
alcohol - although still in moderation. I drink one or two scotches
before dinner and red wine with all meals. The alcohol is metabolised
first, leaving more reserves for energy.

Hadn't thought of that! But I thought alcohol was carbs, worse than sugar.
Doesnt' it affect your BG?

No, alcohol itself is zero carb, but not if mixed with fruit juice or
soda, i.e., screwdrivers or rum and coke etc.

Now I'm really confused. Speaking only of wine, is it a fuel source? If
wine isn't carbs, what is it?

Quoted message said:

It affects it in a positive sense, lowers it. People on medication need
to be careful when drinking alcohol in order to avoid hypos.

I've heard that.

Quoted message said:

I only drink before, or during a meal, never after.

I thought the cautions I've seen said that if drunk on an empty stomach, it
could cause hypos.

Skinny

Daniel Hoffmeister said:

Skinny said:

On 29 Sep 2004 23:46:06 GMT, Ignoramus2203 wrote:

Quoted message said:

I'm probably taking too little calories. My stomach gets tired of all the
protein and fat and vegs and won't take any more, so I end up skipping
meals or having very small ones.

That sounds familiar. I've had problems with anorexia when in ketosis.
Upping the carbs seemed to help over time.

Upping the carbs while staying in ketosis? Does it matter whether you do
that with small amounts throughout the day or one carby meal or what?

Quoted message said:

There's a fine line between
not being hungry and losing your appetite altogether.

I feel plenty hungry, just sick of the 'same old thing', ie
protein/veg/fat. It's like there's some common factor/flavor in most
protein sources and fresh veg that my stomach gets overloaded on, and will
not accept any more. Fat is a separate thing, but I soon feel overloaded on
it too, at least on cream/cream cheese/yogurt/etc.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can you safely add maybe 10-20 carbs?

Quoted message said:

Trying it -- but the 'healthy brown' low glycemic load carbs seem to make
me even more dull. So I'm walking a narrow line with carbs. How do you guys
eat enough fat to make enough energy?

Maybe you're asking the wrong question? If it were me, I would suspect
some food intolerance. Have you tried cutting out wheat? I can't add
back more than the very occasional few bites of even the lowed GI wheat
product without getting stupid.

Thanks for the reminder. Someone suggested that a while back and it seemed
to fit. Cutting out wheat products and milk (except yogurt, cream, etc)
helped with the stupid periods after food; also dry beans etc.

Sweet carbs such as fruit cause an energy spike/crash. So what's left?

Quoted message said:

If you are looking to add fats, find some higher-fat foods you enjoy that
you can have as snacks.

Again, I feel fed up with so much fat. Almond butter is nice if the oil has
separated and can be poured off; I like the solids.

Skinny
who just paused to devour 6 slices of Oscar Meyer pre-cooked bacon, wihtout
even blotting the grease....

Skinny wrote:
|| On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 13:21:56 +0000 (UTC), Daniel Hoffmeister wrote:
||
||| Skinny <[email hidden]> wrote:
|||| On 29 Sep 2004 23:46:06 GMT, Ignoramus2203 wrote:
|||
|||| I'm probably taking too little calories. My stomach gets tired of
|||| all the protein and fat and vegs and won't take any more, so I end
|||| up skipping meals or having very small ones.
|||
||| That sounds familiar. I've had problems with anorexia when in
||| ketosis. Upping the carbs seemed to help over time.
||
|| Upping the carbs while staying in ketosis? Does it matter whether
|| you do
|| that with small amounts throughout the day or one carby meal or what?

Probably better to spread them out, but it really depend on you and how much
exercise you get.

||
||
||| There's a fine line between
||| not being hungry and losing your appetite altogether.
||
|| I feel plenty hungry, just sick of the 'same old thing', ie
|| protein/veg/fat. It's like there's some common factor/flavor in most
|| protein sources and fresh veg that my stomach gets overloaded on,
|| and will not accept any more. Fat is a separate thing, but I soon
|| feel overloaded on it too, at least on cream/cream cheese/yogurt/etc.
||
||
||
||||| Can you safely add maybe 10-20 carbs?
|||
|||| Trying it -- but the 'healthy brown' low glycemic load carbs seem
|||| to make me even more dull. So I'm walking a narrow line with
|||| carbs. How do you guys eat enough fat to make enough energy?
|||
||| Maybe you're asking the wrong question? If it were me, I would
||| suspect some food intolerance. Have you tried cutting out wheat?
||| I can't add
||| back more than the very occasional few bites of even the lowed GI
||| wheat product without getting stupid.
||
||
|| Thanks for the reminder. Someone suggested that a while back and it
|| seemed
|| to fit. Cutting out wheat products and milk (except yogurt, cream,
|| etc) helped with the stupid periods after food; also dry beans etc.
||
|| Sweet carbs such as fruit cause an energy spike/crash. So what's
|| left?
||
||
||| If you are looking to add fats, find some higher-fat foods you
||| enjoy that you can have as snacks.
||
|| Again, I feel fed up with so much fat. Almond butter is nice if the
|| oil has separated and can be poured off; I like the solids.

Why pour the oil off? Stir it into the almond butter. A good way to add
fat and keep calories up.

||
|

Roger Zoul said:

Ignoramus2203 wrote:
|| In article <[email hidden]>, Skinny
|| wrote:
||| On 30 Sep 2004 01:53:33 GMT, Ignoramus2203 wrote:
|||
|||| In article <[email hidden]>, Skinny
|||| wrote:
||||| On 29 Sep 2004 23:46:06 GMT, Ignoramus2203 wrote:
|||||

/snip/

Quoted message said:

|| They say it's the relative level... My diabetic MIL had a full blown
|| hypoglycemic attack at 70 plasma. I am functioning okay at 59 plasma,
|| IF MY METER IS TO BE BELIEVED. That was my level after the half
|| marathon, I went shopping to a farm supply store, bought a bunch of
|| stuff etc, then drove home. The only symptom of low BG is that I
|| forgot to take a muffler flip cover from the shopping cart, it was
|| stuck where it was hard to notice...
||

low BG is not necessarily a sign of a hypo event. Different people can do
fine on different seemly low BG levels. Typically, it is the rate of BG
drop that brings on symptoms of hypoglycemia, not the absolute level.

I'm certainly noticing that absolute BG seems to have very little to do
with it! I'm getting the same energy pattern (spike and crash) whether it's
from 180 to 160, or from 89 to 95 and back.

However I'm not sure the rate of drop is the key either. If the drop from a
spike is slow, taking hours (as from 160 to 95 or so), then I feel stupid
and sluggish the whole time. Also, I dont' feel the same kind of
stupid/sluggish when I'm just plain running short of fuel: like if it's
been level in the 100s or 90s and then I spend energy without eating and it
slowly falls to a sort of slow functioning, still I feel "clear, sharp",
not the sort of 'sluggish/stupid' feeling. Also, if during a long stupid
spell I have more sweets, the BG will go up a bit but the
stupid/sluggisness remains; at those times it seemed to continue till the
BG got down to the 90s, however long that took.

The times I don't have the stupid/sluggish is when
1) the BG is level for a couple of hours at a very high (for me -- 180s) or
very low figure (80s/90s).
2) the BG is slowly rising after a meal
3) the BG is falling from spending energy, not after a high

Skinny

Skinny wrote:
|| On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 11:32:32 -0400, Roger Zoul wrote:
||
||| Ignoramus2203 wrote:
||||| In article <[email hidden]>, Skinny
||||| wrote:
|||||| On 30 Sep 2004 01:53:33 GMT, Ignoramus2203 wrote:
||||||
||||||| In article <[email hidden]>, Skinny
||||||| wrote:
|||||||| On 29 Sep 2004 23:46:06 GMT, Ignoramus2203 wrote:
||||||||
|| /snip/
||
||||| They say it's the relative level... My diabetic MIL had a full
||||| blown hypoglycemic attack at 70 plasma. I am functioning okay at
||||| 59 plasma, IF MY METER IS TO BE BELIEVED. That was my level after
||||| the half marathon, I went shopping to a farm supply store, bought
||||| a bunch of stuff etc, then drove home. The only symptom of low BG
||||| is that I
||||| forgot to take a muffler flip cover from the shopping cart, it was
||||| stuck where it was hard to notice...
|||||
|||
||| low BG is not necessarily a sign of a hypo event. Different people
||| can do fine on different seemly low BG levels. Typically, it is
||| the rate of BG drop that brings on symptoms of hypoglycemia, not
||| the absolute level.
||
||
|| I'm certainly noticing that absolute BG seems to have very little to
|| do with it! I'm getting the same energy pattern (spike and crash)
|| whether it's from 180 to 160, or from 89 to 95 and back.
||
|| However I'm not sure the rate of drop is the key either. If the drop
|| from a spike is slow, taking hours (as from 160 to 95 or so), then I
|| feel stupid and sluggish the whole time. Also, I dont' feel the
|| same kind of stupid/sluggish when I'm just plain running short of
|| fuel: like if it's been level in the 100s or 90s and then I spend
|| energy without eating and it slowly falls to a sort of slow
|| functioning, still I feel "clear, sharp", not the sort of
|| 'sluggish/stupid' feeling. Also, if during a long stupid spell I
|| have more sweets, the BG will go up a bit but the stupid/sluggisness
|| remains; at those times it seemed to continue till the BG got down
|| to the 90s, however long that took.
||
|| The times I don't have the stupid/sluggish is when
|| 1) the BG is level for a couple of hours at a very high (for me --
|| 180s) or very low figure (80s/90s).

How did it get level? It had to change. And the symptoms don't have to
occur at the time you might think they would.

|| 2) the BG is slowly rising after a meal
|| 3) the BG is falling from spending energy, not after a high
||

Hypo is a complex thing... not just a matter of having low BG levels....and
your issues could be triggered by a sudden change, so you'd have ot be
testing often all the time to know for sure what is happenning with
you....you might want to get "Hypoglycemia for Dummies" just to get an
overview of the various complex possibilities.

Skinny said:

I'm low-carbing for blood sugar; I don't HAVE much fat reserve.

Low carbing doesn't usually take folks below their ideal weight,
so that shouldn't be a problem. You're not likely to lose more
than the initial water from draining your liver of stored carbs
and the water it was stored in.

Quoted message said:

I seem to have fallen into ketosis by accident. The blood sugar
readings are nice and low (80s/90s) and I feel sharp -- but
don't have much energy.

Gradually increase your veggies per day. Your issue is to build
up as much veggies as possible until they effect your blood sugar.
Hopefully there will be a level enough to feel really good but not
enough to impact your blood sugar. It may take spreading your
veggies across your meals including breakfast.

Quoted message said:

I can't seem to eat enough fat to make enough energy.

Sautee it don't boil it. Don't trim off the skin. Put on a bit
of butter. Dip it in oil oil. Far more mayo in that tuna salad.
Once you decide to stop avoiding fat, it only takes a few weeks
to get to the point where eting plenty is easy. That just takes
a bit of practice to get used to it.

Doug Freyburger said:

Skinny said:

I'm low-carbing for blood sugar; I don't HAVE much fat reserve.

Low carbing doesn't usually take folks below their ideal weight,
so that shouldn't be a problem. You're not likely to lose more
than the initial water from draining your liver of stored carbs
and the water it was stored in.

I'm not worried about weight one way or the other. What I mean is, without
body fat, what does the body use as a reserve fuel supply when it is in
ketosis? When burning carbs, you have the liver glucogen reserves. Fat
people have fat reserves. But when I run low of fuel bewteen meals, I dont'
seem to have an energy reserve to draw on.

Skinny

Skinny said:

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 13:21:56 +0000 (UTC), Daniel Hoffmeister wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Skinny said:

On 29 Sep 2004 23:46:06 GMT, Ignoramus2203 wrote:

Quoted message said:

I'm probably taking too little calories. My stomach gets tired of all the
protein and fat and vegs and won't take any more, so I end up skipping
meals or having very small ones.

That sounds familiar. I've had problems with anorexia when in ketosis.
Upping the carbs seemed to help over time.

Quoted message said:

Upping the carbs while staying in ketosis? Does it matter whether you do
that with small amounts throughout the day or one carby meal or what?

I'm not diabetic, so I can't speak to that but I found that adding a few
modestly carby snacks - either veggies, a little fruit, or some cheese or
yogurt - got me back on the eating track without interfering in ketosis.
I found I was unable to drop down to 20g a day without losing my appetite.
Right around 30, I leveled out. Mind you, I've lost very slowly compared
to others on this ng.

Quoted message said:

I feel plenty hungry, just sick of the 'same old thing', ie
protein/veg/fat. It's like there's some common factor/flavor in most
protein sources and fresh veg that my stomach gets overloaded on, and will
not accept any more. Fat is a separate thing, but I soon feel overloaded on
it too, at least on cream/cream cheese/yogurt/etc.

Do you cook? Maybe you're settling for too little variety. Grilled
meats, fish, and chicken have a more robust flavor, especially if you
spice things up. One of those little electric grills - George Foreman? -
is a great investment.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Can you safely add maybe 10-20 carbs?

I was able to add 10g without going out of ketosis, but then, as I said,
I'm not diabetic and I did lose very slowly.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Trying it -- but the 'healthy brown' low glycemic load carbs seem to make
me even more dull. So I'm walking a narrow line with carbs. How do you guys
eat enough fat to make enough energy?

Maybe you're asking the wrong question? If it were me, I would suspect
some food intolerance. Have you tried cutting out wheat? I can't add
back more than the very occasional few bites of even the lowed GI wheat
product without getting stupid.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the reminder. Someone suggested that a while back and it seemed
to fit. Cutting out wheat products and milk (except yogurt, cream, etc)
helped with the stupid periods after food; also dry beans etc.

Quoted message said:

Sweet carbs such as fruit cause an energy spike/crash. So what's left?

Check out a glycemic index list of foods, you're sure to find things on
the low end that are appealing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you are looking to add fats, find some higher-fat foods you enjoy that
you can have as snacks.

Quoted message said:

Again, I feel fed up with so much fat. Almond butter is nice if the oil has
separated and can be poured off; I like the solids.

Once I was through the first few months and rid of some major cravings
(hardcore bread addict here) I found I was naturally cutting back on fats.
It didn't seem to interfere with my energy level or slow but fairly steady
weight loss. But this is a classic YMMV situation. You have to find what
works for you.

Dan
325/197/190
Atkins since 1/1/02 (yeah, it was a New Year's Resolution)
Besetting sins: good beer, German bread, and Krispy Kremes

Skinny wrote:
|| On 30 Sep 2004 14:58:30 -0700, Doug Freyburger wrote:
||
||| Skinny wrote:
||||
|||| I'm low-carbing for blood sugar; I don't HAVE much fat reserve.
|||
||| Low carbing doesn't usually take folks below their ideal weight,
||| so that shouldn't be a problem. You're not likely to lose more
||| than the initial water from draining your liver of stored carbs
||| and the water it was stored in.
||
||
|| I'm not worried about weight one way or the other. What I mean is,
|| without body fat, what does the body use as a reserve fuel supply
|| when it is in ketosis?

Why do you ask this question? You don't think that you're at zero bodyfat,
do you?

When burning carbs, you have the liver
|| glucogen reserves. Fat people have fat reserves.

Everybody has fat reserves.

|| But when I run low
|| of fuel bewteen meals, I dont' seem to have an energy reserve to
|| draw on.

It has nothing to do with you having no bodyfat.