Iron accumulation, cause or effect in cell life

"Perhaps a human body in iron overload is just finding a place to dump
the excess iron?"

Perhaps, but no sign of it in the study, it has to do with the sequence of
events and no cause in terms of overal process was offered. Your notion,
Tom, finds no support in the results, one might as well speculate that
iron deposit is the bodies attempt to control the situation because it
has some healing effect. In the absence of any other info that is as good
an idea as any,ie. why does iron show up in distressed areas of the body?

Perhaps a human body in iron overload is just finding a place to dump
the excess iron?

GT

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From time to time the subject of iron being found in higher levels

in the

Quoted message said:

cells of disorders/diseases has arisen. Often some research will

note the

Quoted message said:

relationship as an observation with no way to know if the iron is a

cause

Quoted message said:

or effect of the problem. Here we have one example where high iron

is an

Quoted message said:

effect not the cause of cell life:

"Thus, iron accumulation is not a cause, but a consequence of normal
cellular senescence in vitro."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstr

Quoted message said:

Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2004 Jun;1019:365-367.

Iron Accumulation during Cellular Senescence.

Killilea DW, Wong SL, Cahaya HS, Atamna H, Ames BN.

Nutritional Genomics Center, Children's Hospital Oakland Research
Institute, 5700 Martin Luther King, Jr. Way, Oakland, CA 94609.
bames[remove]@chori.org

Iron accumulates as a function of age and is associated with the
pathology of numerous age-related diseases. These changes may

becaused by

Quoted message said:

altered iron homeostasis at the cellular level, yet this is
poorly understood. Therefore, changes in iron content in primary

human

Quoted message said:

fibroblasts were studied in culture models of cellular senescence.
Total iron content increased exponentially during cellular

senescence,

Quoted message said:

reaching approximately 10-fold higher levels than young cells.
Increasing intracellular iron levels through iron-citrate
supplementation or decreasing intracellular iron levels using
iron-selective chelators had little effect on cellular life span and
markers of cellular senescence when used at subtoxic doses. However,
accelerating cellular senescence with low-dose H(2)O(2) also
accelerated senescence-associated iron accumulation. Delaying

cellular

Quoted message said:

senescence with N-tert-butyl-hydroxylamine (NtBHA) attenuated
senescence-associated iron accumulation. Furthermore, H(2)O(2) or
NtBHA had no effect on iron intracellular levels in immortalized
fibroblasts. Thus, iron accumulation is not a cause, but a

consequence

Quoted message said:

of normal cellular senescence in vitro. Senescence-associated iron
accumulation may contribute to the increased oxidative stress and
cellular dysfunction seen in senescent cells.

PMID: 15247045 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Perhaps a human body in iron overload is just finding a place to

dump

Quoted message said:

the excess iron?"

Perhaps, but no sign of it in the study, it has to do with the

sequence of

Quoted message said:

events and no cause in terms of overal process was offered. Your

notion,

Quoted message said:

Tom, finds no support in the results, one might as well speculate

that

Quoted message said:

iron deposit is the bodies attempt to control the situation because

it

Quoted message said:

has some healing effect. In the absence of any other info that is

as good

Quoted message said:

an idea as any,ie. why does iron show up in distressed areas of the

body?

Hogwash

Perhaps you would like to give a dissertation on where the body stores
excess iron when in overload?

I am not Tom. Never have been. Never will be. Don't even want to be.
Appalled at the idea.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Perhaps a human body in iron overload is just finding a place to

dump

Quoted message said:

the excess iron?"

Perhaps, but no sign of it in the study, it has to do with the

sequence of

Quoted message said:

events and no cause in terms of overal process was offered. Your

notion,

Quoted message said:

Tom, finds no support in the results, one might as well speculate

that

Quoted message said:

iron deposit is the bodies attempt to control the situation because

it

Quoted message said:

has some healing effect. In the absence of any other info that is

as good

Quoted message said:

an idea as any,ie. why does iron show up in distressed areas of the

body?

Mark - For what it's worth,

"In healthy individuals there is little if any unbound iron
circulating in the blood. In all disease states, however, unbound iron
(also called free iron) is released at sites of inflammation and can
spark uncontrolled oxidation."

Griffiths, E. Iron and Infection: Molecular, Physiological and
Clinical Aspects, Second Edition. New York: John Wiley & Sons.

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0471939404.html

This book is expensive - costs around $300 for the revised edition.
But the author is quite knowledgable.

Any comments? ....

GT

"GT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Perhaps a human body in iron overload is just finding a place to

dump

Quoted message said:

the excess iron?"

Perhaps, but no sign of it in the study, it has to do with the

sequence of

Quoted message said:

events and no cause in terms of overal process was offered. Your

notion,

Quoted message said:

Tom, finds no support in the results, one might as well speculate

that

Quoted message said:

iron deposit is the bodies attempt to control the situation because

it

Quoted message said:

has some healing effect. In the absence of any other info that is

as good

Quoted message said:

an idea as any,ie. why does iron show up in distressed areas of the

body?

Hogwash

Perhaps you would like to give a dissertation on where the body stores
excess iron when in overload?

I am not Tom. Never have been. Never will be. Don't even want to be.
Appalled at the idea.

Life must be a continuing horror for Mark. Can you imagine what it must be
like? A Tom in every closet.
A Tom under every bed, in every commode. Has anyone ever researched an
association between iron overload (or underload) and delerium tremens?

MikeV

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

""In healthy individuals there is little if any unbound iron
circulating in the blood. In all disease states, however, unbound

iron

Quoted message said:

(also called free iron) is released at sites of inflammation and can
spark uncontrolled oxidation.""

Yes, I posted an abstract to the exact same effect here previously,

in

Quoted message said:

response to "rust" causing problems when most iron is already bound.

The

Quoted message said:

oxidation question is complex. There are instances where so called

antiox

Quoted message said:

substances can promote oxidation to the benefit of the body. In

some

Quoted message said:

situations the same substance can [censored] or promote oxidation. It

is

Quoted message said:

possible that free iron because of injury can promote some healthy
benefit, consider:

Toxicol In Vitro. 2004 Oct;18(5):555-61.

Prooxidant property of green tea polyphenols epicatechin and
epigallocatechin-3-gallate: implications for anticancer properties.

Azam S, Hadi N, Khan NU, Hadi SM.

Department of Biochemistry, Faculty of Life Sciences, Aligarh Muslim
University, Aligarh 202002, U.P., India.

It is believed that anticancer and apoptosis inducing properties of
green tea are mediated by it's polyphenolic constituents

particularly

Quoted message said:

catechins. A number of reports have shown that green tea polyphenol
(-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG) is among the most effective
chemopreventive and apoptosis-inducing agents present in the

beverage.

Quoted message said:

Plant polyphenols are naturally occurring antioxidants but they also
exhibit prooxidant properties. Over the last several years we have
shown that various classes of plant polyphenols including

flavonoids,

Quoted message said:

curcuminoids and tannins are capable of catalyzing oxidative

DNAcleavage

Quoted message said:

particularly in the presence of transition metal ions such as
copper and iron. With a view to understand the chemical basis of
various pharmacological properties of green tea, in this paper we

have

Quoted message said:

compared the prooxidant properties of green tea polyphenols--EGCG

and

Quoted message said:

EC ((-)-epicatechin). The rate of oxidative DNA degradation as well

as

Quoted message said:

hydroxyl radical and superoxide anion formation was found to be
greater in the case of EGCG as compared with EC. It was also shown
that copper mediated oxidation of EC and EGCG possibly leads to the
formation of polymerized polyphenols. Further, it was indicated that
copper oxidized catechins were more efficient prooxidants as

compared

Quoted message said:

with their unoxidized forms. These results correlate with the
observation by others that EGCG is the most effective apoptosis
inducing polyphenol present in green tea. They are also in support

of

Quoted message said:

our hypothesis that prooxidant action of plant polyphenols may be an
important mechanism of their anticancer properties. A model for
binding of Cu(II) to EC has been presented where the formation of
quinone and a quinone methide has been proposed.

PMID: 15251172 [PubMed - in process]

Blabber!!

This is an attempt to pull OFF TOPIC! We were not talking about
antioxidants and green tea.

The real topic is that the body releases free iron at the site of
inflammation. Free iron comes from iron in the body that is not bound
to proteins, e.g.: a result of iron overload. The logical conclusion
is that without iron overload, no free iron is available, and no iron
is released.

Any released iron will cause irritation and oxidation at the
inflammation site, accelerating disease processes. The logical
solution is to remove the iron.

Hence, in my opinion, it is better to be closer to iron deficiency
anemia than it is to be in iron overload.

Go take your beloved iron supplements if you wish, I think any iron
supplementation is very dangerous in male adults and women past
menopause. It's also a good idea to give blood regularly.

GT

P.S.: I'm not Tom.

"MikeV" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"GT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Perhaps a human body in iron overload is just finding a place

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dump

Quoted message said:

the excess iron?"

Perhaps, but no sign of it in the study, it has to do with the

sequence of

Quoted message said:

events and no cause in terms of overal process was offered.

Your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

notion,

Quoted message said:

Tom, finds no support in the results, one might as well

speculate

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that

Quoted message said:

iron deposit is the bodies attempt to control the situation

because

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it

Quoted message said:

has some healing effect. In the absence of any other info that

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

as good

Quoted message said:

an idea as any,ie. why does iron show up in distressed areas of

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

body?

Hogwash

Perhaps you would like to give a dissertation on where the body

stores

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

excess iron when in overload?

I am not Tom. Never have been. Never will be. Don't even want to

be.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Appalled at the idea.

Life must be a continuing horror for Mark. Can you imagine what it

must be

Quoted message said:

like? A Tom in every closet.
A Tom under every bed, in every commode. Has anyone ever researched

an

Quoted message said:

association between iron overload (or underload) and delerium

tremens?

Quoted message said:

MikeV

I can't imagine a Tom in every closet or commode. The latter would be
frightening - good horror movie material.

Could be a connection to delerium tremens! :-) Perhaps excess iron
reduces cognitive function...

GT