Night Walking

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:36:42 -0000, "Alan Law"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snippety>

Quoted message said:

1) I did not say that there was anything wrong with LED head torches, and
the new luxeon star models are very promising.

All torches at night on hills should be banned.

Quoted message said:

2) I specifically referred to demanding mountain terrain. If someone wants
to make night time ascents of Bidean nam Bian using an Aurora or Tikka
(about 80 g), then the best of luck to them.

Forthwith, ban em, no torches, ever,, anywhere: totally unecessary
piece of kit!

SteveO

NE Climbers & walkers chat forum;
http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php

NMC website: http://www.thenmc.org.uk

Dave Fawthrop said:

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:43:41 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Chris
Malcolm) wrote:

| You might like to take a torch with a much longer beam to check out
| something distant.

Like my 4 D size Maglight Hell of a beam, but kills night vision
instantly. You can't have everything.

Close one eye before you turn the thing on. You might not be able to
judge distances as well but you will still be able to see.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

In article <[email hidden]>, Alan Law

URL: said:

"Phil Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Alan Law said:

If the terrain is rough, then quality of head-torch is important. There
might be reason to doubt the prudence of going on an extended night-time
walk in demanding mountain terrain with an 80 g minimalist head torch.

There's nothing wrong with using an LED headtorch. If anything the
lack of variation in the pool of light makes them ideal for rough
terrain. Where they fail is on being able to spot something a long way
away, for seeing what's under your feet they are fine.

1) I did not say that there was anything wrong with LED head torches, and
the new luxeon star models are very promising.

2) I specifically referred to demanding mountain terrain. If someone wants
to make night time ascents of Bidean nam Bian using an Aurora or Tikka
(about 80 g), then the best of luck to them.

I find that the Tikka plus which is about the same weight as a Tikka but
has an extra LED is quite adequate for a lot of night time use. I find
that the more even pool of light over a wider angle makes it much easier
to see using peripheral vision and this in turn means that you are less
likely to stumble.

Obviously if you have a light which does not illuminate distant objects
in the way that a halogen lamp might, you have to modify your
navigation technique. This isn't much different to the problems of
navigating in Fog during daylight hours.

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

"Carrigman" <carrigman@DEATHTO SPAMMERShotmail.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Now that the long nights are here I'm thinking of doing a hike during the
hours of darkness, heading up a mountain at, say, 6pm and planning to be
back around 9 or 10pm.

The mountain I'm thinking of is very familiar to me.

I've got a headtorch for illumination (if necessary... I'm planning on a
clear night with a full moon) and a trusty Garmin eTrex in case of the
unexpected, navigation wise.

Anything I should bear in mind apart from the obvious (letting people know
where I'm going, etc)?

Is a full moon necessary as well as desirable or would the headtorch

suffice

Quoted message said:

if it's a clear night without a moon?

All advice gratefully received!

A torch is essential ....... but the eyes adjust to the darkness after about
15 minutes ..... providing no one shines a torch in them! Even without any
moon light, you will be surprised at how much you can see. The only problem
is seeing into dark holes, the type that break the leg, and edges of cliffs
.... the type that break your back!

With caution there is nothing wrong with night walking. You mention all the
important things, like leaving precise details about your planned route ...
(and not deviating), ensuring you have the equipment for the
prevailing/planned conditions.

I am planning to walk up Scafell Pike to celebrate New Year at midnight this
year, conditions permitting. I have done the Esk Hause route many times, so
happy with all the quirks of being in the dark. As I said earlier though,
caution is the most important, and of course, if in doubt - turned back.

--
sandy saunders @ www.thewalkzone.co.uk

'Mountains or Mole Hills ... summiting still
brings the same excitement'

<SteveO> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

All torches at night on hills should be banned.

Quite right! I have recently been breeding a good collection of glow-worms.
Re your proposal on http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php for a "high
camp" on Braeriach on 22 - 23 Jan 2005, I am willing to sell you some of
these useful creatures.

--
Alan Law

In article <[email hidden]>,

URL:mailto:[email protected]. said:

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:36:42 -0000, "Alan Law"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snippety>

Quoted message said:

1) I did not say that there was anything wrong with LED head torches, and
the new luxeon star models are very promising.

All torches at night on hills should be banned.

Quoted message said:

2) I specifically referred to demanding mountain terrain. If someone wants
to make night time ascents of Bidean nam Bian using an Aurora or Tikka
(about 80 g), then the best of luck to them.

Forthwith, ban em, no torches, ever,, anywhere: totally unecessary
piece of kit!

As I think has already been pointed out there are genetic differences
that mean that some people have worse night vision than others. Don't
forget that the eye uses different sensors for low light night vision
(rods) than for daylight colour vision (cones). Just as there are
common differences in colour vision, such as red-green colour blindness,
some people have lower densities of rods than others. As an example a
husband of a friend of mine has no functioning rods at all, and cannot
see very well even by sodium street lamps at night.

Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

"Alan Law" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quite right! I have recently been breeding a good collection of

glow-worms.

Quoted message said:

Re your proposal on http://www.thenmc.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php for a "high
camp" on Braeriach on 22 - 23 Jan 2005, I am willing to sell you some of
these useful creatures.

You might have a bit of trouble getting them to pump out many watts in
January. I think the glowing bit is just for the purposes of attracting a
mate in the breeding season which I always remember as coinciding with the
start of the fishing season mid June when I used to live where there were
quite a few of them. Ofcourse you might find some particularly horny little
buggers up for it year round.

In article <[email hidden]>, Gordon
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

You've been watching those old black and white movies again, haven't
you?

Shurrup or she'll bite yer neck !
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

"Dave Fawthrop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:58:13 -0000, "Carrigman" <carrigman@DEATHTO
SPAMMERShotmail.com> wrote:

| Now that the long nights are here I'm thinking of doing a hike during

the

Quoted message said:

| hours of darkness, heading up a mountain at, say, 6pm and planning to be
| back around 9 or 10pm.
|
| All advice gratefully received!

Conserve your *natural* night vision, full moonlight, plus the sky glow
from the nearest town should be more use than a little head torch.
Even without moonlight there is a lot of light around. Keep the torch in
the rucksack for emergencies. If anyone shines a torch at you close one
eye to maintain your natural night vision in that eye.

Get away from cars, and roads, do *not* use the torch, wait 1/2 an hour in
the dark, you will be amazed what you can see.

All good advice. One thing I would add. It's black in even moderately
dense woods. Black as a very black thing (which politically I am not
allowed to say anymore). In a coal shed. At night.

Actually, there is more:
Wear your toughest boots, as you will trip at times and ankles need
protecting (unless you're Peter Clinch - I've just been reading another
thread on Boots v shoes etc).
Take a little burner and brew kit. It does wonders for morale when all is
dark.
Walk the route in daylight before hand to get to know it. Unless you want a
real challenge in night navigation.
Look out for animals you don't often see. I went out in Surrey last week
and saw a couple of rabbits, a deer and even an owl. Not bad for ten
minutes from the M25.
Remove your imagination before starting to walk, otherwise every shadow
looks very scary.

Have fun,
Paul

"Mike Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I find that the Tikka plus which is about the same weight as a Tikka but
has an extra LED is quite adequate for a lot of night time use. I find
that the more even pool of light over a wider angle makes it much easier
to see using peripheral vision and this in turn means that you are less
likely to stumble.

Obviously if you have a light which does not illuminate distant objects
in the way that a halogen lamp might, you have to modify your
navigation technique. This isn't much different to the problems of
navigating in Fog during daylight hours.

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--

There are many issues with head torches

1) there are two problems with any head torch regardless of light source.
Fog, or condensation from one's breath, can generate a tiresome glare right
in front of one's eyes. And the fact that the light source is close to the
eyes means that shadow relief, available with a hand torch, is lost. There
are occasions when it is better to hold a head torch in one's hand. That may
be good for walking, but it is no use for skiing or climbing.

2) there is no reason why a LED cannot be used to generate a beam or flood
illumination, according to the design of the optics of the device. If
required, the lens / reflector may be designed to allow variable focus. A
good beam is not possible with the feeble LEDs generally used hitherto
(hence the LED / bulb hybrids), but is possible with the latest high-powered
LEDs.

3) apart from their reliability, LEDs have the important advantage of having
a fairly stable colour temperature, regardless of light output. That means
that switchable output is realistic. But to make the most of that a
regulated power supply is required, which is something lacking in most
current devices. [A further possibility with LEDs is to allow the user to
programme their own brightness levels (say 4 available at the press of a
button) according to their requirements.] With this kind of switching, one
high-powered LED is able to produce anything from minimal output to
something very bright.

Across the pond, it is already possible to buy a high powered LED head torch
weighing 105 g (manufacturer's figure, including batteries), with multiple
output levels and a regulated power supply. Cost quoted is 39 USD.

--
Alan Law

Quoted message said:

Get away from cars, and roads, do *not* use the torch, wait 1/2 an hour in
the dark, you will be amazed what you can see.

--
Dave F

A dark-adapted eye can see a single photon in complete darkness, amazing.

A Blavatsky

SteveO <?@?.?> wrote

Quoted message said:

Forthwith, ban em, no torches, ever,, anywhere: totally unecessary
piece of kit!

Darwin will do the rest.....
--
Gordon

In article <[email hidden]>, Alan Law

URL: said:

"Mike Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I find that the Tikka plus which is about the same weight as a Tikka but
has an extra LED is quite adequate for a lot of night time use. I find
that the more even pool of light over a wider angle makes it much easier
to see using peripheral vision and this in turn means that you are less
likely to stumble.

Obviously if you have a light which does not illuminate distant objects
in the way that a halogen lamp might, you have to modify your
navigation technique. This isn't much different to the problems of
navigating in Fog during daylight hours.

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--

There are many issues with head torches

1) there are two problems with any head torch regardless of light
source. Fog, or condensation from one's breath, can generate a
tiresome glare right in front of one's eyes. And the fact that the
light source is close to the eyes means that shadow relief, available
with a hand torch, is lost. There are occasions when it is better to
hold a head torch in one's hand. That may be good for walking, but it
is no use for skiing or climbing.

The problems you cite above are also inherent in activities such as
caving. LED headlamps are now very popular for this activity. For
example I use a spelotechnics 7 LED array + halogen bulb combination
powered off of a NiMh rechargeable battery pack.

http://www.speleo.co.uk/advantagescaving.htm

Quoted message said:

2) there is no reason why a LED cannot be used to generate a beam or
flood illumination, according to the design of the optics of the
device. If required, the lens / reflector may be designed to allow
variable focus. A good beam is not possible with the feeble LEDs
generally used hitherto (hence the LED / bulb hybrids), but is
possible with the latest high-powered LEDs.

3) apart from their reliability, LEDs have the important advantage of
having a fairly stable colour temperature, regardless of light output.
That means that switchable output is realistic. But to make the most
of that a regulated power supply is required, which is something
lacking in most current devices. [A further possibility with LEDs is
to allow the user to programme their own brightness levels (say 4
available at the press of a button) according to their requirements.]
With this kind of switching, one high-powered LED is able to produce
anything from minimal output to something very bright.

The Tikka plus has adjustable light levels.

Quoted message said:

Across the pond, it is already possible to buy a high powered LED head
torch weighing 105 g (manufacturer's figure, including batteries),
with multiple output levels and a regulated power supply. Cost quoted
is 39 USD.

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

"oldman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Carrigman said:

Now that the long nights are here I'm thinking of doing a hike

during

Quoted message said:

the hours of darkness, heading up a mountain at, say, 6pm and
planning to be back around 9 or 10pm

Methinks you might only try this once, until your broken leg gets
better, or until the mountain rescue find you after you have fallen
down a gully.
Regards
oldman

What rubbish!

Nowt wrong with walking in the dark - fair enough, you need to go a bit
slower, but why on earth should it be inherently dangerous?

A good path helps - most times it's simple to make out the change of
colour/shade against the background vegetation.
Torch is useful - as a back-up. Try to rely on your night vision -
especially if there's a moon out.
Red filter for torch is also useful if you're only using it for map-reading
etc. The eyes aren't so affacted by red light. You can get a filter kit for
Tikka's (red/green/clear). If you've an older Petzl, try a coffee jar lid. I
find a red Maxwell House Decaffinated fits onto my Saxo really well.
If you have to walk WITH the torch, try strapping it to a wrist (Tikka etc)
or carrying it in your hand. Glare can be an issue if worn on the forehead
(plus you look like a pillock when you make it to the pub/cafe and you've a
big red patch on your forehead).
Dare I say that GPS is a good idea (but the camera is probably dead weight -
unless you want some nice dawn shots).

And remember that you might be passing houses etc at "odd" times. Try not to
spook the locals - especially those with shotguns.

druidh

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Methinks you might only try this once, until your broken leg gets
better, or until the mountain rescue find you after you have fallen
down a gully.

Eh? Why? Walking at night, especially in the light of a full
moon, is *lovely*!

You've been watching those old black and white movies again, haven't
you?

No I haven't! I love walking at night using only the ambient
light of the moon. If only if were possible more often... *sigh*
--
"The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is
probably the day that they start making vacuum cleaners."
--Doc in alt.privacy

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 00:29:08 +0000, Chris Street
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| It gets colder than you think. Take an extra layer and some munchies.

A flask of *hot* coffee is also a good idea. At night your body thinks it
should be asleep and tries to wind your brain down and lower your body
temperature.

But - the OP was talking about walking in the dark rather than
overnight. The big difference being that since it gets dark at
an unfeasibly early hour these days it's possible to start at
18:00 (the time he stipulated IIRC) and still be back home in
time for bed at the normal time of whenever.

--
"The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is
probably the day that they start making vacuum cleaners."
--Doc in alt.privacy

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Gordon
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

You've been watching those old black and white movies again, haven't
you?

Shurrup or she'll bite yer neck !

Aaaaoooowwwwghhl!!
--
"The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is
probably the day that they start making vacuum cleaners."
--Doc in alt.privacy

"Carrigman" <carrigman@DEATHTO SPAMMERShotmail.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Now that the long nights are here I'm thinking of doing a hike during the
hours of darkness, heading up a mountain at, say, 6pm and planning to be
back around 9 or 10pm.

The mountain I'm thinking of is very familiar to me.

I've got a headtorch for illumination (if necessary... I'm planning on a
clear night with a full moon) and a trusty Garmin eTrex in case of the
unexpected, navigation wise.

Anything I should bear in mind apart from the obvious (letting people know
where I'm going, etc)?

Is a full moon necessary as well as desirable or would the headtorch
suffice
if it's a clear night without a moon?

All advice gratefully received!

John,
Ireland

Did Ben Nevis last new year in the dark. 5 friends, plently of light, up the
tourist track - which I know very well.

People who do walk at night tend to be more careful. Don't see a problem,
but I wouldn't do a 'unfamiliar' hill in the dark.

Clive

Quoted message said:

<sound effect in the background> Hoooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwllllllllll!

cue 'bad moon rising'........

Stick to the road!

Richard Webb

Gordon said:

Dave Mclaughlin <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

cue 'bad moon rising'........

Credence Clearwater Revival?

That's them.

--
Dave McLaughlin

[censored] Sapiens Non Urinat In Ventum