Wheelset weight?

Peter D says...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I'm sure this has been done to death here but I'll ask anyway.....

I ride on Mavic Open Pros (32 Hole) with Record Hubs. I was riding with a
guy in a 600km tour the other week who said mine were good 'training wheels'
but his Mavic Ksyrium SL's were a big improvement. He was being sincere not
just BSing.

I do not dispute this fact but how much difference would it really make in
say for example a 100km race over varied terrain? Presumably they are a bit
stiffer, lighter and more aerodynamic but by how much??

Any comments appreciated....

Pete

Check out http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?
type=roadwheels. Weight difference is negligible. Aerodynamics? Maybe a
slight improvement. Not sure how stiffness, even if there was any
significant difference, would substantially improve performance.
Overall, I don't see how they could make much difference. Losing a pound
from the engine (you) would probably be better.

Peter D said:

I do not dispute this fact but how much difference would it really make in
say for example a 100km race over varied terrain? Presumably they are a bit
stiffer, lighter and more aerodynamic but by how much??

I don't either wheels have a problem with stiffness. If you use thin
spokes, your wheeset can actually be lighter than Ksyrium SL's. In any
case they can't be much heavier. I haven't seen any numbers, but the
Ksyriums probably are slightly more aerodynamic, but it's still a
traditional wheel with a low-profile rim and spokes. I think the guy who
was talking about "good training wheels" may have been sincere but it's
still BS.

-as

In article said:

Hi,

I'm sure this has been done to death here but I'll ask anyway.....

I ride on Mavic Open Pros (32 Hole) with Record Hubs. I was riding with a
guy in a 600km tour the other week who said mine were good 'training wheels'
but his Mavic Ksyrium SL's were a big improvement. He was being sincere not
just BSing.

I do not dispute this fact but how much difference would it really make in
say for example a 100km race over varied terrain? Presumably they are a bit
stiffer, lighter and more aerodynamic but by how much??

Any comments appreciated....

Pete

I just switched to the Open Pro¹s, 32 spoke Record hubs , tripple butted...
I was using the Boney-tragger RaceXL.

The handbuilts are a much more stable and forgiving ride. Maybe they don¹t
accelerate as well, but since I don¹t race, who cares. Thousands or even
hundreds of a second are not important; making it to the finish is...🙂

HAND

nospam-<< I ride on Mavic Open Pros (32 Hole) with Record Hubs. I was riding
with a
guy in a 600km tour the other week who said mine were good 'training wheels'
but his Mavic Ksyrium SL's were a big improvement. He was being sincere not
just BSing. >><BR><BR>

Yep, those 100 grams he is saving on his wheels make a HUGE difference.

Course no spokes almost anywhere, pulling out eyelets are becoming a more
frequent issue on these, the rear hub needs lots if attention since it is so
poorly designed BUT WAY better.

Nospam-<< I do not dispute this fact but how much difference would it really
make in
say for example a 100km race over varied terrain? Presumably they are a bit
stiffer, lighter and more aerodynamic but by how much?? >><BR><BR>

They are NOT more aero, those alumnum spokes are thick..how much, how about
NAL..that's not at all.

To be fair, he ought to carry the difference in price, in pennies, in his
jersey..about 30000 of them...

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Peter D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I'm sure this has been done to death here but I'll ask anyway.....

I ride on Mavic Open Pros (32 Hole) with Record Hubs. I was riding with a
guy in a 600km tour the other week who said mine were good 'training

wheels'

Quoted message said:

but his Mavic Ksyrium SL's were a big improvement. He was being sincere

not

Quoted message said:

just BSing.

I do not dispute this fact but how much difference would it really make in
say for example a 100km race over varied terrain? Presumably they are a

bit

Quoted message said:

stiffer, lighter and more aerodynamic but by how much??

Any comments appreciated....

Pete

He's sincerely full of [censored]. Marginally lighter, arguable aero difference,
twice the price. And no way are Ksyriums even AS stiff as a set of 32 spoke
Open Pro's. Check out http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/data.htm for
some data, as opposed to the self-justifying opinion of someone who just
dropped $800 on a pair of wheels.

SB

Peter D said:

Any comments appreciated....

OpenPros or similar rims, with light hub (Record is just that) and some thin
spokes (32 or even better 36) are THE BEST wheeles money can buy.
If you need more aerowheeles you can use 28 spokes instead but in that case use
it for racing only. High profile rims will will be more aero but can add much
weight.
I'm just in the process of buying/asembling new wheeles and I didn't think of
factory wheeles for a second.
Probbably will use DTSwiss 240s hubs (32H), DT RR1.1 rim with DT Revolution
spokes and brass nipples. I would like to have 36H on the rear, but 240s hub is
not producet with 36 holes, and I really must have this hub 🙂)
These wheeles will be lighter than any Ksyrium out there, will be enough strong
(I hope) and the most important easy to maintain/service.
Light and fast wheeles (if there is something like that) don't have to be
factory made, and what you have is just as good as any of those fancy and
expensive toys.
My goal is to have 2 set of wheeles. Ones I described up will be my fancy and
light racing wheeles.
I'll also build training wheeles with Ambrosio Focus FCS-18 rims, Revolutions,
and some mid-range hubs...36 spokes.
My racing wheeles will be about 1450g...not bad for 32H 🙂) and training ones
about 2150g.

Peter D said:

Hi,

I'm sure this has been done to death here but I'll ask anyway.....

I ride on Mavic Open Pros (32 Hole) with Record Hubs. I was riding with a
guy in a 600km tour the other week who said mine were good 'training wheels'
but his Mavic Ksyrium SL's were a big improvement. He was being sincere not
just BSing.

I do not dispute this fact but how much difference would it really make in
say for example a 100km race over varied terrain? Presumably they are a bit
stiffer, lighter and more aerodynamic but by how much??

Any comments appreciated....

Pete

They are not stiffer: see Wheel Deflection Test Data
sheldonbrown.comdata.htmOpen ↗
They are around 100 grams lighter depending on which spokes you are using.
They are less durable and less serviceable. If one spoke breaks they are very difficult to ride due to the high spoke tension and low spoke count. Since lower spoke count wheels put more stress per spoke they will fail sooner.

When you get to Paris to do the PBP you will see every combination of equipment, but most are riding wheels very similar to yours. If you take the money saved and use it for coaching and training you will finish ahead of most riders who spent on things like Mavic Ksyrium SLs.

Quoted message said:

From: "Steve Blankenship"

Quoted message said:

Check out http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/data.htm

And:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings.php

From WW:

Kryserium Equipe rear rim actual, 510g. Open Pro: 430g.
About the same for "aero" for Kribeerium v. Open Pro, from a look in a
catalogue-- IOW, not deep aero either one of them.

More "aero" rims:

CXP 33: 455g. 23.5mm section
Velocity Deep V: 28h, 539. 32h, 582. 30mm section.

Campy hubs (some say superior by far to K-m), two sets of wheels.
Rims/tires/cogs chosen for intended use. Advantages: True compatibility (with
gears, spacing; get rims that match close enough to not present problems with
worn brake pads), reasonable parts prices, availability (no sending wheels
back to the factory), easy to true wheels, replace broken spokes, replace
bashed/worn sidewall rims. Handbuilt, better than machine made. Deep V: red,
yellow, blue, gray <g>. Tires, gears, rims chosen to suit intended use.

"Sunday morning (overnight) flat insurance". --TP

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Hi,

I'm sure this has been done to death here but I'll ask anyway.....

I ride on Mavic Open Pros (32 Hole) with Record Hubs. I was riding with a
guy in a 600km tour the other week who said mine were good 'training wheels'
but his Mavic Ksyrium SL's were a big improvement. He was being sincere not
just BSing.

I do not dispute this fact but how much difference would it really make in
say for example a 100km race over varied terrain? Presumably they are a bit
stiffer, lighter and more aerodynamic but by how much??

No difference. Drafting and tactics are more important.
----------------
Alex

Peter D wrote, in the fairly recent past:

Quoted message said:

I ride on Mavic Open Pros (32 Hole) with Record Hubs. I was riding with a
guy in a 600km tour the other week who said mine were good 'training wheels'
but his Mavic Ksyrium SL's were a big >improvement.

OK OK, I just happened to read someone's alleged results for weighing a similar
wheelset-- 32h, with 32 spokes:

<The front wheel weighs 792-grams and the rear weighs 938-grams, which comes to
1730-grams for the wheelset (weighed w/o skewers).>

Contrast with an adv. weight for Mavic Kryswerveingum Elite: 755f/960r (no
skewers either).

Per catalog prices (preferred retail not available at this time of the
morning), the Campys will come in $50-75 cheaper, incl. wheelbuild labor (which
comes with a limited warantee in "my" FLBS). Retail could be expected to swell
that figure a little. --TP