Re: Stupid Americans! -- Stupid... Stupid... STUPID!!! ___________ ylojceq

Blair P. Houghton said:

People who considered intelligence an important issue
voted 85:15 for Kerry.

I saw a clip of the Dems' dissection of the results, and THEY said they lost
among high school and college graduates, while winning with drop-outs and
post-grads.

FWIW.
--
BS (no, really)

In article <[email hidden]>, sorni@bite-
me.san.rr.com says...

Quoted message said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

People who considered intelligence an important issue
voted 85:15 for Kerry.

I saw a clip of the Dems' dissection of the results, and THEY said they lost
among high school and college graduates, while winning with drop-outs and
post-grads.

Bush triumphed by winning the vote among "suggestibles". It's just that
simple, as it always is. Kerry lost because he didn't. That isn't a
knock against either of them -- it's just a fact of modern political
marketing.

Most people laugh when you ask them whether Starbucks or Nike have the
best product in their businesses because they have developed a healthy
cynicism about advertising. So what about political campaigns? Do you
think election results tell you which party has the best policies for
the country? Sure, just like Starbucks has the best coffee and Nike the
best sports shoes.

Candidates and parties are "sold" just like Nikes, Starbucks, etc.
Election results don't tell us which policies were supported by the
electorate. What they tell us is which campaign did a better job of
focus-group testing, message-crafting, message narrow-casting, and
turnout motivating. Karl Rove & company just plain out-smarted Kerry's
equivalent staff. With a margin of victory of 51 to 49% overall, and
just ~130,000 votes in what turned out to be the pivotal state,
marketing WAS the difference.

If you have doubts, check out last night's Frontline special, "The
Persuaders". As someone who has seen the inside of a political machine,
I found it to be spot on.

Rick

Quoted message said:

People who considered intelligence an important issue
voted 85:15 for Kerry.

Nonsense. Bush won all groups earning more than 40k. Kerry won the bottom.

Mark Hickey <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

People who considered intelligence an important issue
voted 85:15 for Kerry.

Yet Bush scored higher on his SAT than Kerry.

Can you provide a citation for that? I've looked for it and not found
it. My understanding is that Kerry was a considerably better student
than Bush.

Quoted message said:

Heh... looks like 85% got it wrong.

If Bush does actually have a higher IQ, he doesn't act like it. Maybe
that's the problem.

JP

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

People who considered intelligence an important issue
voted 85:15 for Kerry.

Nonsense. Bush won all groups earning more than 40k. Kerry won the bottom.

Why is this nonsense? Your statement and his could easily both be true.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Mark Hickey <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

People who considered intelligence an important issue
voted 85:15 for Kerry.

Yet Bush scored higher on his SAT than Kerry.

Can you provide a citation for that? I've looked for it and not found
it. My understanding is that Kerry was a considerably better student
than Bush.

Since when does being a better student make one have better test grades?
Some of the best (meaning hardest working) students I've ever known
didn't do particularly well on tests because they simply didn't have the
raw talent, and some who did very well (750+ on SAT and 33+ on ACT) on
the standardized tests weren't particularly good students.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Heh... looks like 85% got it wrong.

If Bush does actually have a higher IQ, he doesn't act like it. Maybe
that's the problem.

Maybe that's the reason he won: he comes across like a normal person,
while Kerry comes across as an intellectual to whom nobody can really
relate.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

David Kerber ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net said:

[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I see it this way: can I afford to count racists, queer-baiters, and
supporters of violence against the weak among my friends? No, I
can't. And I don't have to-- among the scores of people I have
considered my friends here in Seattle, there are maybe (just maybe)
three who might be so lacking in common decency that they voted for
Bush.

I've stayed out of this until now, but come on; this is nuts. I voted
for Bush, but not because I thought he was going to a good president,
but rather only because I thought he was going to be better than Kerry.

And I didn't vote for Kerry because I think he's lame, corrupt, and
anti-progressive. But the strngest criticism I could make of John
Kerry is that he would continue *some* of the worst practices of the
current administration.

Quoted message said:

Also, the pejorative terms you are throwing around up above have no
basis in fact. W has never said or done anything to give the impression
that he is a racist or a "queer-baiter". Being against gay marriage
does not mean you hate gays, and having Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice
among his top advisors would tell me that he is most definitely NOT
racist.

So what do you call the value judgement that makes it acceptable to a
man to kill something like 100,000 people-- not because they did him
or his people _any harm whatsoever_, but because of their ethnicity
and their religion? The word is racism. When the lives of folks from
other cultures count less to you than the lives of strangers from your
own culture, then you are a racist. The Bush administration is _most
definitely_ racist by that measure.

And when a man plays upon the basest prejudices of closed-minded
people to advocate the specific denial of common civil rights to
homosexuals, on the sole basis of them being homosexual, the word for
that man is queer-baiter.

The terms are negative in connotation, but I am not using them
perjoratively. They correctly identify the views and behaviors to
which I have applied them. There aren't "gentler" synonyms for racism
and queer-baiting; to call them something else is to obscure them.

You're free to believe that your preferred forms of racism and
queer-baiting-- or George Bush's-- are somehow acceptable. But let's
call these things by their names, shall we?

Chalo Colina

"Todd Kuzma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| In article <[email hidden]>,
| Mark Hickey <[email hidden]> wrote:
|
| > Blair P. Houghton <[email hidden]> wrote:
| >
| > >People who considered intelligence an important issue
| > >voted 85:15 for Kerry.
| >
| > Yet Bush scored higher on his SAT than Kerry.
|
| Hey, I scored higher than both of them, and I was having an off-day when
| I took my SAT. I did much better on the ACT. When do I get to be
| President?
|
| Seriously, I don't think that test scores are necessarily the best
| method of determining intelligence. If they are, it's a little
| disturbing. I'd hope that the President of the US of A was smarter than
| me!
|
| Todd Kuzma

". I'd hope that the President of the US of A was smarter than
me!..."

Rest assured..
ED3

"Todd Kuzma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| In article <[email hidden]>,
| Mark Hickey <[email hidden]> wrote:
|
| > Blair P. Houghton <[email hidden]> wrote:
| >
| > >People who considered intelligence an important issue
| > >voted 85:15 for Kerry.
| >
| > Yet Bush scored higher on his SAT than Kerry.
|
| Hey, I scored higher than both of them, and I was having an off-day when
| I took my SAT. I did much better on the ACT. When do I get to be
| President?
|
| Seriously, I don't think that test scores are necessarily the best
| method of determining intelligence. If they are, it's a little
| disturbing. I'd hope that the President of the US of A was smarter than
| me!
|
| Todd Kuzma

". I'd hope that the President of the US of A was smarter than
me!..."

Rest assured..
ED3

In article <[email hidden]>,

(JP) said:

If Bush does actually have a higher IQ, he doesn't act like it. Maybe
that's the problem.

Maybe he's too honest to worry as much about hs IMAGE?

Tom Gibb <[email hidden]>

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Ray) said:

Quoted message said:

People who considered intelligence an important issue
voted 85:15 for Kerry.

Nonsense. Bush won all groups earning more than 40k. Kerry won the
bottom.

Does that include Kerry's wife? :-)

Tom Gibb <[email hidden]>

Todd Kuzma <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark Hickey said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

People who considered intelligence an important issue
voted 85:15 for Kerry.

Yet Bush scored higher on his SAT than Kerry.

Hey, I scored higher than both of them, and I was having an off-day when
I took my SAT. I did much better on the ACT. When do I get to be
President?

Seriously, I don't think that test scores are necessarily the best
method of determining intelligence. If they are, it's a little
disturbing. I'd hope that the President of the US of A was smarter than
me!

Todd Kuzma

Wasn't it Henry Ford who said, 'you don't have to be smart, just
surround yourself with smart people'?

If Kerry's so smart, why didn't he build a better team to run his
campaign team, or come up with a better message than 'I'm not Bush'?

Whether you like Bush or not, you have to give him credit for putting
together the right folks for the job, and they got it done.

Mark Hickey said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

People who considered intelligence an important issue
voted 85:15 for Kerry.

Yet Bush scored higher on his SAT than Kerry.

So his family pulled strings with the SAT people?

--
Tom Sherman

Edward Dike said:

"Todd Kuzma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| In article <[email hidden]>,
| Mark Hickey <[email hidden]> wrote:
|
| > Blair P. Houghton <[email hidden]> wrote:
| >
| > >People who considered intelligence an important issue
| > >voted 85:15 for Kerry.
| >
| > Yet Bush scored higher on his SAT than Kerry.
|
| Hey, I scored higher than both of them, and I was having an off-day when
| I took my SAT. I did much better on the ACT. When do I get to be
| President?
|
| Seriously, I don't think that test scores are necessarily the best
| method of determining intelligence. If they are, it's a little
| disturbing. I'd hope that the President of the US of A was smarter than
| me!
|
| Todd Kuzma

". I'd hope that the President of the US of A was smarter than
me!..."

I would be rather upset if that was the case with most of the 43.

--
Tom Sherman

Pete said:

"Blair P. Houghton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pete said:

"Chalo" <[email hidden]> wrote
> I can't
> fathom the twisted lack of ordinary decency that would allow ordinary
> folk to actively promote Bush's vile mixture of injustice, lies and
> butchery, and frankly I don't wish to understand it. It would only
> make me a lesser person to do so.

This is one of the reasons Kerry lost.

It is none of the reasons Kerry lost, but lies like yours is one.

Lies? WTF are you on about?

It appears you can't even understand what Chalo said, much less the
underlying attitude in what he said, and how he said it.

If you really need it spelled out, we can go there.

Pete
I'd rather go riding, tho

I understand Chalo's sentiment perfectly. Bush voters are
either ignorant, liars, or dupes. In any case, they need
to be incredibly selfish in order not to see that Bush's
policies are antisocial, not antisocialist.

Yours, on second reading, is ambiguous.

--Blair
"I rode this morning. Tomorrow I ride
again. Each day is a stroke in a longer
ride. I make the effort, and it brings
me home, and allows me to cycle again."

Scott Hendricks said:

Wasn't it Henry Ford who said, 'you don't have to be smart, just
surround yourself with smart people'?

That's what Bush promoted during his 2000 campaign.

146 of those "smart people" were smart enough to quit
during his first term. His top economic advisors were so
disgusted with his ridiculous insistence that trickle-down
theory is valid that he had to replace them all twice.

Wait. That was as of ~August. Many more have resigned
since then.

Quoted message said:

If Kerry's so smart, why didn't he build a better team to run his
campaign team, or come up with a better message than 'I'm not Bush'?

He did. You didn't hear it because you didn't want to.

That's your fault, not his.

Quoted message said:

Whether you like Bush or not, you have to give him credit for putting
together the right folks for the job, and they got it done.

Yeah. Bush, Al Capone, [censored], Jim Jones, and other "leaders"
like that there.

--Blair
"Cuz getting things done is more
important than getting things right."

B i l l S o r n s o n said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

People who considered intelligence an important issue
voted 85:15 for Kerry.

I saw a clip of the Dems' dissection of the results, and THEY said they lost
among high school and college graduates, while winning with drop-outs and
post-grads.

Check out CNN's iffy exit-poll website. Lots of breakdowns
there, some of them silly. The 85:15 came from there. They
specifically asked if certain things were "important" issues
and then correlated those answers to the respondent's vote.

85% of people considering "intelligence" an important issue
voted for Kerry.

--Blair
"You'd have to disregard intelligence
to be a Bush supporter."

"Blair P. Houghton" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I understand Chalo's sentiment perfectly. Bush voters are
either ignorant, liars, or dupes. In any case, they need
to be incredibly selfish in order not to see that Bush's
policies are antisocial, not antisocialist.

Yours, on second reading, is ambiguous.

Not the sentiment, the attitude. Which you seem to share. And not realize
that you do.

Which. again, IMHO, is one of the (main) reasons Kerry lost.

Pete

In article <[email hidden]>,

Blair P. Houghton said:

Scott Hendricks said:

Wasn't it Henry Ford who said, 'you don't have to be smart, just
surround yourself with smart people'?

That's what Bush promoted during his 2000 campaign.

146 of those "smart people" were smart enough to quit
during his first term. His top economic advisors were so
disgusted with his ridiculous insistence that trickle-down
theory is valid that he had to replace them all twice.

Wait. That was as of ~August. Many more have resigned
since then.

Quoted message said:

If Kerry's so smart, why didn't he build a better team to run his
campaign team, or come up with a better message than 'I'm not Bush'?

He did. You didn't hear it because you didn't want to.

That's your fault, not his.

Quoted message said:

Whether you like Bush or not, you have to give him credit for putting
together the right folks for the job, and they got it done.

Yeah. Bush, Al Capone, [censored], Jim Jones, and other "leaders"
like that there.

--Blair
"Cuz getting things done is more
important than getting things right."

As I've said before: "For some people, quantity *is* quality..."

--
tanx,
Howard

"It looks like the squirrel's been showing everybody
where he keeps his nuts."

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Todd Kuzma said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark Hickey said:

Blair P. Houghton said:

People who considered intelligence an important issue
voted 85:15 for Kerry.

Yet Bush scored higher on his SAT than Kerry.

Hey, I scored higher than both of them, and I was having an off-day when
I took my SAT. I did much better on the ACT. When do I get to be
President?

Seriously, I don't think that test scores are necessarily the best
method of determining intelligence. If they are, it's a little
disturbing. I'd hope that the President of the US of A was smarter than
me!

Todd, I think you're too smart to WANT the job! ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame