Anquet photo maps?

In article <[email hidden]>, Tony Buckley
<URL:[email hidden]> wrote: [snip]

Quoted message said:

Cloud and mist makes a map and the ability to navigate using it and a
compass essential if you're heading into it on the hills and wish to travel
safely, especially but not exclusively if you're going over unfamiliar
ground, even in this country. Otherwise you're regarding other things as a
'dispensible convenience', on a sliding scale that might begin with missing
last orders and head on upwards depending on how poor the weather and how
rugged the ground were - and that's your choice to make.

You and I clearly differ over the definition of "essential". I regard
essential as meaning I couldn't do without, whereas a map and compass is
something I'd regard as desirable, but not essential.

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

"Mike Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Geoff Berrow

URL: said:

I noticed that Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from Tony
Buckley contained the following:

Quoted message said:

Cloud and mist makes a map and the ability to navigate using it and a
compass essential if you're heading into it on the hills and wish to
travel
safely, especially but not exclusively if you're going over unfamiliar
ground, even in this country.

Stoopid newb question maybe, but how to you navigate if you can't see
any reference points?

You can do dead reckoning navigation by pacing or by timing yourself.
For that to work well you have to gain the experience of knowing how
fast you walk under different conditions. If you combine time and speed,
or paces walked, with compass direction, you can try to navigate even in
a white out.

How would I use these techniques if I hadn't got a map Mike???

Quoted message said:

What I can tell you is that this principle doesn't work so well when
skiing in a white-out because it's much more difficult to judge how fast
you are going, and also much more difficult to keep to a consistent
bearing.

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

In article <[email hidden]>, bob watkinson

URL: said:

"Mike Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Geoff Berrow

URL: said:

I noticed that Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from Tony
Buckley contained the following:

>
>Cloud and mist makes a map and the ability to navigate using it and a
>compass essential if you're heading into it on the hills and wish to
>travel
>safely, especially but not exclusively if you're going over unfamiliar
>ground, even in this country.

Stoopid newb question maybe, but how to you navigate if you can't see
any reference points?

You can do dead reckoning navigation by pacing or by timing yourself.
For that to work well you have to gain the experience of knowing how
fast you walk under different conditions. If you combine time and speed,
or paces walked, with compass direction, you can try to navigate even in
a white out.

How would I use these techniques if I hadn't got a map Mike???

I don't know how you would do it, becuase you clearly regard the map as
essential.

But if I were without a map, but still had a watch and a compass I'd try
to keep track of my relative position (relative to observed landmarks),
even if I couldn't place that position on a physical map. That way I
could at least estimate how far I had travelled from my starting point
and I could carry out a grid search of my locality. For example if you
were forced to build a snowhole as shelter, but then had to go looking
for supplies of food or water in the locality, you could still attempt
to navigate relative to that point of reference even without a map.

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

Mike Clark wrote

Quoted message said:

You and I clearly differ over the definition of "essential". I regard
essential as meaning I couldn't do without, whereas a map and compass is
something I'd regard as desirable, but not essential.

For given conditions, it seems we do. As I said, I had broad agreement with
the post to which I initially responded. The answer may lie in exactly what
'd' encompasses.

However, since it's time for tea (curry tonight!) it's time to stop now.

T.
No map needed to find the curry...just follow your nose...

"Mike Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, bob watkinson

URL: said:

"Mike Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Geoff Berrow
<URL:[email hidden]> wrote:
> I noticed that Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from Tony
> Buckley contained the following:
>
> >
> >Cloud and mist makes a map and the ability to navigate using it and a
> >compass essential if you're heading into it on the hills and wish to
> >travel
> >safely, especially but not exclusively if you're going over
> >unfamiliar
> >ground, even in this country.
>
>
> Stoopid newb question maybe, but how to you navigate if you can't see
> any reference points?

You can do dead reckoning navigation by pacing or by timing yourself.
For that to work well you have to gain the experience of knowing how
fast you walk under different conditions. If you combine time and
speed,
or paces walked, with compass direction, you can try to navigate even
in
a white out.

How would I use these techniques if I hadn't got a map Mike???

I don't know how you would do it, becuase you clearly regard the map as
essential.

But if I were without a map, but still had a watch and a compass I'd try
to keep track of my relative position (relative to observed landmarks),
even if I couldn't place that position on a physical map. That way I
could at least estimate how far I had travelled from my starting point
and I could carry out a grid search of my locality. For example if you
were forced to build a snowhole as shelter, but then had to go looking
for supplies of food or water in the locality, you could still attempt
to navigate relative to that point of reference even without a map.

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

Really, I'd stick to canal towpaths then. Seriously your a disaster waiting
to happen.

In article <[email hidden]>, bob watkinson
<URL:[email hidden]> wrote:
[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How would I use these techniques if I hadn't got a map Mike???

I don't know how you would do it, becuase you clearly regard the map as
essential.

But if I were without a map, but still had a watch and a compass I'd try
to keep track of my relative position (relative to observed landmarks),
even if I couldn't place that position on a physical map. That way I
could at least estimate how far I had travelled from my starting point
and I could carry out a grid search of my locality. For example if you
were forced to build a snowhole as shelter, but then had to go looking
for supplies of food or water in the locality, you could still attempt
to navigate relative to that point of reference even without a map.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Really, I'd stick to canal towpaths then. Seriously your a disaster
waiting to happen.

At 47 years old and spending at least 2-3 weeks of the year winter
ski-mountaineering and ski-touring in the Alps, and 2-3 weeks of the
year summer mountaineering in the Alps, also weekend rock-climbing,
hill-walking, caving and pot-holing in the UK, and having been treking
in poorly mapped areas of New Zealand etc etc, I think I have a
reasonable idea of what I am capable of doing with or without a map and
compass.

I've another question for you.

On the Cairngorm plateau in winter conditions, which would you rather do
without, your map or your iceaxe?

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

"Mike Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, bob watkinson
<URL:[email hidden]> wrote:
[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> How would I use these techniques if I hadn't got a map Mike???

I don't know how you would do it, becuase you clearly regard the map as
essential.

But if I were without a map, but still had a watch and a compass I'd
try
to keep track of my relative position (relative to observed landmarks),
even if I couldn't place that position on a physical map. That way I
could at least estimate how far I had travelled from my starting point
and I could carry out a grid search of my locality. For example if you
were forced to build a snowhole as shelter, but then had to go looking
for supplies of food or water in the locality, you could still attempt
to navigate relative to that point of reference even without a map.

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Really, I'd stick to canal towpaths then. Seriously your a disaster
waiting to happen.

At 47 years old and spending at least 2-3 weeks of the year winter
ski-mountaineering and ski-touring in the Alps, and 2-3 weeks of the
year summer mountaineering in the Alps, also weekend rock-climbing,
hill-walking, caving and pot-holing in the UK, and having been treking
in poorly mapped areas of New Zealand etc etc, I think I have a
reasonable idea of what I am capable of doing with or without a map and
compass.

Believe me when I say you should step back a little and think about the
indefensible arguement you are seeking to defend. If you truely feel this
then your confidence in yourself is misplaced and you really are a danger to
yourself. Do you lead groups? Are they aware of your beliefs? Are you a
teacher perchance?

Quoted message said:

I've another question for you.

On the Cairngorm plateau in winter conditions, which would you rather do
without, your map or your iceaxe?

Irrelevant

Quoted message said:

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

e a figure of speech when you read one? Either way, wake up Dominic!

Quoted message said:

Well I've certainly been out into wild places where the ability to read
a map was largely irrelevant because there were no good maps of the
area. We tend to be spoilt in the UK because of the quality of the
mapping data available, but there are plenty of locations, even in
europe where the mapping data is less than useful. So are you saying
that only areas covered by good mapping data are legitimate for travel?

Oh the fun of trying to find yourway around a Greek forest near a
dodgy frontier with a forestry sketch map... Those wee adventures
drove me into the arms of Garmin.

Without good map skills.. Not to sensible but - who is it to forbid
it...

Its called exploring.

Best get them polished though!

Richard Webb

bob watkinson <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

<Huge Snip>

Quoted message said:

So if you were on the Cairngorm plateaux and the weather closed in on you.
If you had no map and had become disorientated. Do you think you would get
back to your car. Are you even sure you would get to, say Aviemore or
perhaps you'd end up in Braemar. Would you feel safe? You must know people
have died for want of a map.

Of course if you have a GPS with you, with a planned track, route, or at
least sensible waypoints, you are in with a better chance than just a
magnetic compass.

<Kill thread>
--
Gordon

Dominic Sexton <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Perhaps you will be telling people that they shouldn't go out into the
hills without stout boots, waterproofs, a survival bag, spare clothing
and food next...

I wouldn't tell you, Dominic, cos you are young and fit, but if you were
inexperienced and wanted to come walking with me, I would attempt to
educate you into such sensible precautions. Except the survival bag, I
haven't got one in my pack these days. :-)

Now where did I put my whistle?...
--
Gordon

In [email hidden]
Mike Clark mused:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I have a question for you. Imagine that you took a trip to the Lake
District and on arriving at your chosen start point you discovered
that you had accidentally left your map and compass at home. Would you

a) abandon the trip and return home?
b) drive to the nearest town and buy a new map and compass?
c) go for the walk anyway?
d) go for the walk but make adaptations to the schedule to compensate
for the missing items?

My answer would almost certainly be (d)

Even then, (c) could be a feasible option if it were an area with which
you were familiar.

In [email hidden]
bob watkinson mused:

Quoted message said:

"Mike Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On the Cairngorm plateau in winter conditions, which would you
rather do without, your map or your iceaxe?

Irrelevant

Don't take the Winter ML at Glenmore - I don't think that is the answer
they'd be expecting :-)

Dominic Sexton said:

Perhaps you will be telling people that they shouldn't go out into the
hills without stout boots, waterproofs, a survival bag, spare clothing
and food next...

Surely you always carry a copy of Mountaincraft and
Leadership by Eric Langmuir?
--
R
o
o
n
e
y

In [email hidden]
RJ Webb mused:

Quoted message said:

Oh the fun of trying to find yourway around a Greek forest near a
dodgy frontier

Which 'frontier', if I may be so bold to enquire?
<snip>

In [email hidden]
Gordon mused:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Now where did I put my whistle?...

It's on the hanger in the wardrobe?

Bootlaces said:

In [email hidden]
RJ Webb mused:

Quoted message said:

Oh the fun of trying to find yourway around a Greek forest near a
dodgy frontier

Which 'frontier', if I may be so bold to enquire?

Bulgaria - Thraki

Bagging beechforested lumps covered in wildlife.. Heaven

Richard Webb

"Mike Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I have a question for you. Imagine that you took a trip to the Lake
District and on arriving at your chosen start point you discovered that
you had accidentally left your map and compass at home. Would you

a) abandon the trip and return home?
b) drive to the nearest town and buy a new map and compass?
c) go for the walk anyway?
d) go for the walk but make adaptations to the schedule to compensate
for the missing items?

What about (e) realise you hadn't meant to take them in the first place?

In [email hidden]
RJ Webb mused:

Quoted message said:

Bootlaces said:

In [email hidden]
RJ Webb mused:

Quoted message said:

Oh the fun of trying to find yourway around a Greek forest near a
dodgy frontier

Which 'frontier', if I may be so bold to enquire?

Bulgaria - Thraki

Cool. Thraki very much.

Bootlaces <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

In [email hidden]
Gordon mused:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Now where did I put my whistle?...

It's on the hanger in the wardrobe?

Well, obviously, that's the first place I looked, but it turned up in
the sideboard drawer, still attached to its spliced lanyard.
I detached it from the rucksack when I used the sack as a flight bag,
and never put it back.

The Metropolitan
J.Hudson & Co.
Birmingham

An old police whistle. In fact I have two, the second one stamped 1940,
no pea to rattle, and both produce that familiar sound that struck fear
into villains and varmints.

Evenin' all.
--
Gordon

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

bob watkinson said:

I downloaded their trial version of the photo mapping onto my regular Anquet
package. It looks great and is a lot of fun. You can fly about in it just
like in virtual landscape. You half expect to see people waving at you from
the summits. Beyond this fun value though I'm not convinced of it's
practical value but if you have some dosh burning a hole in your pocket then
what the hell, you only live once.

In fact, I've just d/loaded the same thing, and I don't think it's
what I saw in the shop. What I saw looked like a cross between a photo
and virtual landscape. I can't work it out. Perhaps it was a different
product, although the display said Anquet. The shop sells Memory Map
as well.

might have been Tracklogs. It has a 'skybox' feature which can but
dramatic weather/sky/etc. effects onto the 3D mapping. Though the
mapping is still 3D OS, so perhaps not?
--
Darren