Why does my small ring feel so big in the cold?

(Mark Scardiglia) said:

I'm OK riding in the colder weather, but it never ceases to amaze me
how much more work it seems to be to make the bike go once it gets
below 40 degrees. Just don't tell me it's mostly got to do with the
density of the air...

I was wondering this today. When it's cold out, my average speed
drops and my subjective effort increases. I think that it may have to
do with the fact that cold weather tends to occur with short daylight
hours and less riding, which in turn leads to less fitness and slower
speeds and more subjective effort. In other words, I'm out of shape
when it's cold out.

Despite that, I was lucky enough to be able to take advantage of
unseasonably warm and clear November weather here in Minnesota to get
in a 180 mile week. Usually by now we have had at least a 1" snow
fall; instead it's been in the mid-40s F.

Tim McNamara said:

(Mark Scardiglia) said:

I'm OK riding in the colder weather, but it never ceases to amaze me
how much more work it seems to be to make the bike go once it gets
below 40 degrees. Just don't tell me it's mostly got to do with the
density of the air...

I was wondering this today. When it's cold out, my average speed
drops and my subjective effort increases. I think that it may have to
do with the fact that cold weather tends to occur with short daylight
hours and less riding, which in turn leads to less fitness and slower
speeds and more subjective effort. In other words, I'm out of shape
when it's cold out.

If that were the main effect I'd expect to still feel slow on days in
the winter that are exceptionally warm. But I've found that a bike ride
feels particularly effortless on such days. Conversely an early cold
snap has an immediate effect on perceived effort - long before any loss
of fitness could occur. I'd attribute part of the effect to the need
for more clothing and partly to physiological factors; e.g. your body
needs to expend more energy on keeping warm and I'd expect some
efficiency losses in the lungs as blood vessels contract in response to
cold air.

Quoted message said:

Despite that, I was lucky enough to be able to take advantage of
unseasonably warm and clear November weather here in Minnesota to get
in a 180 mile week. Usually by now we have had at least a 1" snow
fall; instead it's been in the mid-40s F.

That's better than I managed this week in the much warmer but wetter
SF bay area. Born in Minn., grew up in ND, glad to have escaped.

"Peter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| Tim McNamara wrote:
| > [email hidden] (Mark Scardiglia) writes:
| >
| >
| >>I'm OK riding in the colder weather, but it never ceases to amaze me
| >>how much more work it seems to be to make the bike go once it gets
| >>below 40 degrees. Just don't tell me it's mostly got to do with the
| >>density of the air...
| >
| >
| > I was wondering this today. When it's cold out, my average speed
| > drops and my subjective effort increases. I think that it may have to
| > do with the fact that cold weather tends to occur with short daylight
| > hours and less riding, which in turn leads to less fitness and slower
| > speeds and more subjective effort. In other words, I'm out of shape
| > when it's cold out.
|
| If that were the main effect I'd expect to still feel slow on days in
| the winter that are exceptionally warm. But I've found that a bike ride
| feels particularly effortless on such days. Conversely an early cold
| snap has an immediate effect on perceived effort - long before any loss
| of fitness could occur. I'd attribute part of the effect to the need
| for more clothing and partly to physiological factors; e.g. your body
| needs to expend more energy on keeping warm and I'd expect some
| efficiency losses in the lungs as blood vessels contract in response to
| cold air.
| >
| > Despite that, I was lucky enough to be able to take advantage of
| > unseasonably warm and clear November weather here in Minnesota to get
| > in a 180 mile week. Usually by now we have had at least a 1" snow
| > fall; instead it's been in the mid-40s F.
|
| That's better than I managed this week in the much warmer but wetter
| SF bay area. Born in Minn., grew up in ND, glad to have escaped.

I have attributed the 'more fatigue/ energy input req'd' cold weather
phenomena to two things, primarily:

It takes a fair bit of energy to warm the air one breathes.
and
Cold weather clothing is a bit heavier, and far more constricting than
typical summer wear.

Whether or not they have a discernable effect, all the bike's lubricants
will be more viscous.

Working outside in the winter has a similar effect; increasing fatigue,
appetite/ energy consumption, and rest requirements.

ED3
St.Paul

Cold air is also drier than warm air: better hydration needed.

But... How sure are we that it's harder? I see a lot of "seems like" and
"feels like" in this thread. Forgive me if I haven't read everything
carefully enough, but is anyone numerically confident that riding in the
cold is slower?

If so, I suspect the biggest difference is aerodynamic. Cold weather
clothing is bulkier with more folds & fibers to catch wind.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

[email hidden] (Mark Scardiglia) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm OK riding in the colder weather, but it never ceases to amaze me
how much more work it seems to be to make the bike go once it gets
below 40 degrees. Just don't tell me it's mostly got to do with the
density of the air...

I am so glad to hear other people talking about this! I've noticed
the same thing over the years and I figured either (a) I was really
out of shape (depressing) or (b) I was just being a wimp that day. It
never occurred to me that the body might require more energy to warm
the cold air.

Off-hand, I'd guess the benefits of cold air are: dense air = more O2
per breath; cold air may mean tires won't deform as much (?) --
anything else?? Doesn't sound like much.

The drawbacks are: denser air = higher drag for any given KPH; more
clothing = constricted breathing, higher drag coefficient and heavier
load; cold lubricants = more effort; cold air = possibly more energy
spent keeping body warm.

Neither one sounds like much -- everything is probably on the order of
0-2% of total power/resistance, but the drawbacks do appear to
outweigh the benefits in terms of performance.

In any case, it makes me feel better to think the cold weather is just
a tougher environment for riding...

JR

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark Scardiglia said:

I'm OK riding in the colder weather, but it never ceases to amaze me
how much more work it seems to be to make the bike go once it gets
below 40 degrees. Just don't tell me it's mostly got to do with the
density of the air...

_ This may sound conter-intiutive, but you are likely
overdressed. You go slower because your muscles are
overheated. From my exeperience, you can actually go
faster at 40 degrees, since you don't need to waste
energy cooling off. However, this requires that you
either take off one or two layers after warming up,
or dressing lightly enough so that you're pretty
chilly until you warm up. This varies greatly from
person to person, but in general people tend to
overdress in cold weather. The trick to cold weather
is to remove layers before you get sweaty.

_ Booker C. Bense

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBQZk/6mTWTAjn5N/lAQH/KwQAhpjOW4Jd+ECyz3NCganX2EdgLvxbPPRJ
HS8vjQ+qSTVZ8UL1jqFRaVBVxLGUd+uzqf7gD2zTkG/ELktwtoN+Ys9ZU5U89yT+
p1lGQHFc4WVVGqFs4hek/aGkf+kG/+jFJ+k8K2phjZ8JVa1W+zP2paWuHYi7da1N
3c6PKmD3lWQ=
=tJNo
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

"Booker C. Bense"
<[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...
| -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
|
| In article <[email hidden]>,
| Mark Scardiglia <[email hidden]> wrote:
| >I'm OK riding in the colder weather, but it never ceases to amaze me
| >how much more work it seems to be to make the bike go once it gets
| >below 40 degrees. Just don't tell me it's mostly got to do with the
| >density of the air...
| >
|
| _ This may sound conter-intiutive, but you are likely
| overdressed. You go slower because your muscles are
| overheated. From my exeperience, you can actually go
| faster at 40 degrees, since you don't need to waste
| energy cooling off. However, this requires that you
| either take off one or two layers after warming up,
| or dressing lightly enough so that you're pretty
| chilly until you warm up. This varies greatly from
| person to person, but in general people tend to
| overdress in cold weather. The trick to cold weather
| is to remove layers before you get sweaty.
|
| _ Booker C. Bense
|

It's really unnecessary to undress, or over/ under dress.
If you wear tops with zippers, and headbands, the ability to expose more or
less flesh in the critical areas of the neck, throat, chest, and head will
make all the difference. Exposing the wrists to the cold will draw off much
heat, as they are another area of the body where there is a great amount of
blood flowing close to the skin's surface.
At riding speeds, a few square inches of flesh exposed in these areas will
readily zap heat off the body. It does pay to anticipate:
Bundle/zip up on the long, low energy output/high wind chill downhills.
Unzip as you approach long. slow (low wind chill/ high energy output)uphills
to adequately vent waste heat.

ED3

"Mark Scardiglia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm OK riding in the colder weather, but it never ceases to amaze me
how much more work it seems to be to make the bike go once it gets
below 40 degrees. Just don't tell me it's mostly got to do with the
density of the air...

It takes much more effort for me to get warmed up, but in the end I feel
stronger in the cold even as low as the 20's. In the cool to hot temps I
have problems staying hydrated. I'm really happy that temps are coming
down.

Dave

Booker C. Bense
<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark Scardiglia said:

I'm OK riding in the colder weather, but it never ceases to amaze me
how much more work it seems to be to make the bike go once it gets
below 40 degrees. Just don't tell me it's mostly got to do with the
density of the air...

_ This may sound conter-intiutive, but you are likely
overdressed. You go slower because your muscles are overheated. From
my exeperience, you can actually go faster at 40 degrees, since you
don't need to waste energy cooling off.

Cooling is not an active process, therefore you don't "waste energy
cooling off." FWIW my personal experience is that I ride fastest and
easiest when the temperature is between 80 and 90F. I'd probably be a
happy guy living in New Mexico or Arizona, as I like it hot. Here in
Minnesota there are only about six weeks of good warm weather a year,
and 6 1/2 months of generally OK weather- and four months of generally
annoying weather, at least from the cycling perspective. Sadly
they've not been good months for cross-country skiing or snowshoeing
for most of the past 10 years

Quoted message said:

However, this requires that you either take off one or two layers
after warming up, or dressing lightly enough so that you're pretty
chilly until you warm up. This varies greatly from person to person,
but in general people tend to overdress in cold weather. The trick
to cold weather is to remove layers before you get sweaty.

I'd agree with the practice you describe, as a way to prevent initial
overheating and then getting cold when the insulation provided by your
clothing is compromise by moisture, but not the underlying reason you
propose.

Tim McNamara said:

Cooling is not an active process, therefore you don't "waste energy
cooling off."

Yes, it takes energy to cool the body, since the heart has to work
harder. Based on what I've read:

When it's hot, more blood is directed to the surface of the body,
leaving less for the leg muscles. Because of this, heart rate
increases about 1 beat for every degree above 75F.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Raptor said:

Forgive me if I haven't read everything
carefully enough, but is anyone numerically confident that riding in the
cold is slower?

My hill time trials are slower in the cold, so yes, I have numbers
to show the slow-down effect. I can't explain why, however.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Tim McNamara said:

Terry Morse said:

Okay, I'll buy the argument that cooling requires little increase in
caloric energy. But I'll respond to that with a "Who cares?".
Increase in temperature substantially limits the ability to produce
power to the pedals, and that's the important fact. Time trial
results on very hot days are reduced.

Interesting. My average speeds are 1-2 mph higher on hot days versus
cooler days within a given week in the summer. I feel loose, relaxed
and efficient above 80 F, not too bad above 65 F, and from thereon
down I feel tighter and less efficient when pedaling. Granted this is
all subjective, but as the temps drop my average speed drops as
well. YMMV.

Living in a four-season climate (presumably I'm not the only one), I
acclimatize myself twice a year and enjoy exercising outdoors in all
weather, eventually. More so in Summer for obvious reasons. I would
expect my performance to be more of a function of my current state of
acclimatization than mere temperature.

If you are patient and determined, I believe you can acclimatize
yourself to perform well from roughly -40F (clothed) to roughly 110F
(scantily clothed but sunscreened).

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

Terry Morse said:

Tim McNamara said:

Cooling is not an active process, therefore you don't "waste energy
cooling off."

Yes, it takes energy to cool the body, since the heart has to work
harder. Based on what I've read:

When it's hot, more blood is directed to the surface of the body,
leaving less for the leg muscles. Because of this, heart rate
increases about 1 beat for every degree above 75F.

Close enough to no energy expenditure as to be lost in the noise.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tim McNamara said:

Booker C. Bense
<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark Scardiglia said:

I'm OK riding in the colder weather, but it never ceases to amaze me
how much more work it seems to be to make the bike go once it gets
below 40 degrees. Just don't tell me it's mostly got to do with the
density of the air...

_ This may sound conter-intiutive, but you are likely
overdressed. You go slower because your muscles are overheated. From
my exeperience, you can actually go faster at 40 degrees, since you
don't need to waste energy cooling off.

Cooling is not an active process, therefore you don't "waste energy
cooling off."

_ Poor choice of words on my part. While cooling off may not be
active, sweating certainly is. If you're sweating you're wasting
energy and water.

Quoted message said:

FWIW my personal experience is that I ride fastest and
easiest when the temperature is between 80 and 90F.

_ YICK, I grind to a halt at about 80 and when it's 90 I
just suffer home. I can't really go fast at all until it's
60 or below.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

However, this requires that you either take off one or two layers
after warming up, or dressing lightly enough so that you're pretty
chilly until you warm up. This varies greatly from person to person,
but in general people tend to overdress in cold weather. The trick
to cold weather is to remove layers before you get sweaty.

I'd agree with the practice you describe, as a way to prevent initial
overheating and then getting cold when the insulation provided by your
clothing is compromise by moisture, but not the underlying reason you
propose.

_ Based on my experience in XC skiing races, I think there is more to it
than that. I'm faster when I don't sweat. If you're sweating your
muscles need to be cooled faster than the environmental
conditions alone can cool them.

_ Booker C. Bense

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBQZprr2TWTAjn5N/lAQGk+QP+LHWEQlIdtTCOGxBbejtQJatiHlnBA48u
DpnGYCcfsNgglGCWQX7a0npe+PcmLD3zz1N/nAEJP31u7A9ej1SNjlCXZf/OXF2P
Y5dKlmGbJ0DoFptI3cuG4NYR7F2HocM0ActuVMfQy/OSEaedUXVFgh/PSxL2wjTB
S9r9TGkHsFI=
=nLBh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Tim McNamara said:

Terry Morse said:

Tim McNamara said:

Cooling is not an active process, therefore you don't "waste energy
cooling off."

Yes, it takes energy to cool the body, since the heart has to work
harder. Based on what I've read:

When it's hot, more blood is directed to the surface of the body,
leaving less for the leg muscles. Because of this, heart rate
increases about 1 beat for every degree above 75F.

Close enough to no energy expenditure as to be lost in the noise.

Okay, I'll buy the argument that cooling requires little increase in
caloric energy. But I'll respond to that with a "Who cares?".
Increase in temperature substantially limits the ability to produce
power to the pedals, and that's the important fact. Time trial
results on very hot days are reduced.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Terry Morse said:

Tim McNamara said:

Terry Morse said:

Tim McNamara wrote:

> Cooling is not an active process, therefore you don't "waste
> energy cooling off."

Yes, it takes energy to cool the body, since the heart has to
work harder. Based on what I've read:

When it's hot, more blood is directed to the surface of the body,
leaving less for the leg muscles. Because of this, heart rate
increases about 1 beat for every degree above 75F.

Close enough to no energy expenditure as to be lost in the noise.

Okay, I'll buy the argument that cooling requires little increase in
caloric energy. But I'll respond to that with a "Who cares?".
Increase in temperature substantially limits the ability to produce
power to the pedals, and that's the important fact. Time trial
results on very hot days are reduced.

Interesting. My average speeds are 1-2 mph higher on hot days versus
cooler days within a given week in the summer. I feel loose, relaxed
and efficient above 80 F, not too bad above 65 F, and from thereon
down I feel tighter and less efficient when pedaling. Granted this is
all subjective, but as the temps drop my average speed drops as
well. YMMV.

Booker C. Bense
<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tim McNamara said:

Booker C. Bense
<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Mark Scardiglia <[email hidden]> wrote:

>I'm OK riding in the colder weather, but it never ceases to amaze
>me how much more work it seems to be to make the bike go once it
>gets below 40 degrees. Just don't tell me it's mostly got to do
>with the density of the air...

_ This may sound conter-intiutive, but you are likely
overdressed. You go slower because your muscles are
overheated. From my exeperience, you can actually go faster at 40
degrees, since you don't need to waste energy cooling off.

Cooling is not an active process, therefore you don't "waste energy
cooling off."

_ Poor choice of words on my part. While cooling off may not be
active, sweating certainly is. If you're sweating you're wasting
energy and water.

Sweating doesn't really seem to take a lot of calories. Heck, you're
sweating all the time but it's less noticeable when the temperature is
lower and the air is drier. Dehydration is one of the leading causes
of cold-weather deaths. You are losing water and electrolytes in your
sweat, though.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

FWIW my personal experience is that I ride fastest and easiest when
the temperature is between 80 and 90F.

_ YICK, I grind to a halt at about 80 and when it's 90 I just suffer
home. I can't really go fast at all until it's 60 or below.

I feel most alive when the mercury climbs above 80 F. I can't wait to
get home from work and go out for as long as bike ride as daylight
allows. Above 100 F, it's a bit hot and I ride more conservatively.
I've never ridden in temps over 103 F or so, as those happen rarely
here in Minnesota.

I will say, though, that one of my worst days on the bike was a hot
one in the Alps in 2002, climbing the Col de la Croix de Fer from
Rochetaillee, then the Telegraphe and the Galibier. It was at least
95 F in the Maurienne valley and in the 70s on the cols. There was
some shade on the Croix de Fer near the bottom and on the Telegraphe,
but none to speak of on the Galibier. I drank 18 full water bottles
and peed once in 10 hours. An absolute sticker of a day. I suppose
long climbs in the heat, with little or no wind to cool one off as a
result, took its toll.

Around here, a long climb takes 6 minutes compared to 10 times as long
or more in the Alps (at the speeds I climb). Riding on 100 F days is
not much of a problem. I don't like riding in the cold, though- I'd
be an unhappy Belgian!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

However, this requires that you either take off one or two layers
after warming up, or dressing lightly enough so that you're pretty
chilly until you warm up. This varies greatly from person to
person, but in general people tend to overdress in cold
weather. The trick to cold weather is to remove layers before you
get sweaty.

I'd agree with the practice you describe, as a way to prevent
initial overheating and then getting cold when the insulation
provided by your clothing is compromise by moisture, but not the
underlying reason you propose.

_ Based on my experience in XC skiing races, I think there is more
to it than that. I'm faster when I don't sweat. If you're sweating
your muscles need to be cooled faster than the environmental
conditions alone can cool them.

Not sure that I buy this notion. I'm not sure your muscles need to be
cooled very much, it seems to be more your core temperature that needs
to be maintained within limits to prevent autonomic dysregulation.

Quoted message said:

from roughly -40F (clothed)

Man, you better be clothed!

Will a bicycle's lubricants even work in -40F? (err, you do mean negative 40F -
which would be a record low in Denver - the recent coldest being -25F in the
60's).

Brr!

You hame my respect. No way am I going out in -40F

http://members.aol.com/dnvrfox
(Family Web Page)

Denver C. Fox said:

Quoted message said:

from roughly -40F (clothed)

Man, you better be clothed!

Will a bicycle's lubricants even work in -40F? (err, you do mean negative 40F -
which would be a record low in Denver - the recent coldest being -25F in the
60's).

Brr!

You hame my respect. No way am I going out in -40F

http://members.aol.com/dnvrfox
(Family Web Page)

I said I thought it was possible, not that I've done it! And I didn't
say cycling, though I'm sure that's possible too.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"