Monostays

Simon Brooke [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

I don't have a front skewer. Like all sensible people, I have a
monoblade.

Except on your roadbikes where it would increase the weight and
complexity of the bike for no real gain (Ignoring the oft-cited ease of
tube change).

Jon

Jon Senior <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote:

: Except on your roadbikes where it would increase the weight and
: complexity of the bike for no real gain (Ignoring the oft-cited ease of
: tube change).

Ignoring it is good, since it's not an issue on a road bike. On a shopper with
drum brakes, hub dynamos, hub gears etc then it makes a lot more sense.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
"Blogs are neither necessary nor sufficient for evil to triumph.
They're just what we call an enabling technology" - Danny O'Brien

Arthur Clune [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Ignoring it is good, since it's not an issue on a road bike. On a shopper with
drum brakes, hub dynamos, hub gears etc then it makes a lot more sense.

In the cold and wet (The only time I ever get punctures! ;-)) I can
replace a tube in either wheel in a maximum of 5 minutes including
packing all my tools away again. This is good enough for me.

Jon

Arthur Clune said:

Ignoring it is good, since it's not an issue on a road bike. On a shopper with
drum brakes, hub dynamos, hub gears etc then it makes a lot more sense.

Up to a point... if you could get hub dynamos and hub gears that fitted
easily onto single sided supports then the market would probably open up
a bit. Very good in theory, in actuality there's a shortage of suitable
components AFAICT.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> wrote:

: Up to a point... if you could get hub dynamos and hub gears that fitted
: easily onto single sided supports then the market would probably open up
: a bit.

Sure. I'm agreeing with you here.

All I'm saying is that there is no advantage for a road bike (or any
bike with simple q/r wheels) in having a monoblade for puncture
repair.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
"Blogs are neither necessary nor sufficient for evil to triumph.
They're just what we call an enabling technology" - Danny O'Brien

Arthur Clune said:

All I'm saying is that there is no advantage for a road bike (or any
bike with simple q/r wheels) in having a monoblade for puncture
repair.

Agreed, though it's slightly less of a non-issue for a single sided rear
support than the front fork. The chain and derailleur aren't /that/
awkward, but they're more awkward than not being there. The back end is
where motorcycle manufacturers have gone more for single sided too, I note.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Arthur Clune said:

All I'm saying is that there is no advantage for a road bike (or any
bike with simple q/r wheels) in having a monoblade for puncture
repair.

Indeed - in some cases it's actually harder to fix a flat with a monoblade
than a q/r - case in point being Cosimo the Stealth Baron, on whom removing
the front tyre and tube is an exercise in fighting off the unwated
attentions of the chain. Fortunately, this has only been required twice
since I've owned him.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

in message <[email hidden]>, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk ('') said:

Simon Brooke [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

I don't have a front skewer. Like all sensible people, I have a
monoblade.

Except on your roadbikes where it would increase the weight and
complexity of the bike for no real gain

It would slightly decrease the weight and complexity, in fact, but I
agree I don't yet have them. But are you really claiming that this:

<URL:http://www.velokraft.com/comps.htm#stiletto%20monofork>

(which I don't have) is heavier or more complex than this:

<URL:http://www.bikes-dolan.uk.com/images/components/wing_forks_l.jpg>

(which I do)?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Wise man with foot in mouth use opportunity to clean toes.
;; the Worlock

Simon Brooke [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

It would slightly decrease the weight and complexity, in fact, but I
agree I don't yet have them. But are you really claiming that this:

<URL:http://www.velokraft.com/comps.htm#stiletto%20monofork>

I know which one you mean, but amusingly, it no longer features on that
page.

Quoted message said:

(which I don't have) is heavier or more complex than this:

<URL:http://www.bikes-dolan.uk.com/images/components/wing_forks_l.jpg>

(which I do)?

Yes. Because to use a monoblade fork, you have to use hub braking of
some variety (disc usually). This requires longer cable runs (If using
cable) or the use of hydraulics, the use of a heavier hub (Quite
probably offsetting the weight gain by only having one blade.), and
almost certainly an overall weight gain from the braking system itself.
In addition it forces the use of cross-spoke lacing and (currently at
least) limits the component choices.

You cannot consider the fork (or blade) in isolation since there are
other effects of the change. The reason that discs don't feature on road
bikes is that there is no advantage in braking ability that counters the
(pretty significant) increase in weight.

Jon

Jon Senior said:

Yes. Because to use a monoblade fork, you have to use hub braking of
some variety (disc usually).

Up to a point, Lord Copper. Examination of the monoblade adorning Cosimo
the Stealth Baron leads me to believe that it would be possible to use a rim
brake with it.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

Dave Larrington [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Up to a point, Lord Copper. Examination of the monoblade adorning Cosimo
the Stealth Baron leads me to believe that it would be possible to use a rim
brake with it.

I guess you could cantilever a mount point for a caliper brake out from
the blade but... we're hardly in the realm of simplified elegant
engineering here!

Jon

Jon Senior said:

Dave Larrington [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Up to a point, Lord Copper. Examination of the monoblade adorning
Cosimo the Stealth Baron leads me to believe that it would be
possible to use a rim brake with it.

I guess you could cantilever a mount point for a caliper brake out
from the blade but... we're hardly in the realm of simplified elegant
engineering here!

It's got a 'ole in the crown, in the same place as one would find a 'ole on
a ordinary normal stereo fork, thobut.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

Dave Larrington [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

It's got a 'ole in the crown, in the same place as one would find a 'ole on
a ordinary normal stereo fork, thobut.

Odly enough I was musing on the idea this morning on the way to work.
While it would look odd on a rear monostay, a crown hole on a monobladed
fork would make sense. (It's still look odd mind!)

I have a feeling that the effect of an off-centre brake (ie. pads not
aligned correctly) might have interesting consequences with regard to
force on the axle, but I guess it is possible.

Jon

In article said:

Dave Larrington [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

It's got a 'ole in the crown, in the same place as one would find a 'ole on
a ordinary normal stereo fork, thobut.

Odly enough I was musing on the idea this morning on the way to work.
While it would look odd on a rear monostay, a crown hole on a monobladed
fork would make sense. (It's still look odd mind!)

You could even have a 19th century monobladed fork with rod brakes.
http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/collections/exhiblets/lotus/invin.asp

On 24 Nov 2004 16:23:42 +0000 (GMT), [email hidden] (Alan

Braggins) said:

http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/collections/exhiblets/lotus/invin.asp

404. Bah!

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Just zis Guy said:

On 24 Nov 2004 16:23:42 +0000 (GMT), [email hidden] (Alan
Braggins) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/collections/exhiblets/lotus/invin.asp

Quoted message said:

404. Bah!

Not when I tried it...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article said:

Just zis Guy said:

On 24 Nov 2004 16:23:42 +0000 (GMT), [email hidden] (Alan
Braggins) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/collections/exhiblets/lotus/invin.asp

Quoted message said:

404. Bah!

Not when I tried it...

And it still works for me now - but in case it gets rearranged or something:
picture from that page is
http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/collections/exhiblets/lotus/invin.jpg and
a slightly smaller version of it (sinvin.jpg) appears on
http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/collections/exhiblets/lotus/inventor.asp

It has front and rear monoblades, and appears to have a front brake only,
which might be pressing on the tyre rather than acting on the rim, but
that's not very clear. (There might not be a freewheel, let's take the
discussion of the difference between having a back brake and having a
means of braking the back wheel as read.)
The rear is shown as having a single frame tube only, continued past the
(curved) seat-tube to the headtube, with the bottom bracket sort of hanging
on the end of the seattube (no chainstays or downtube joining it there).
No chain is visible either, so maybe the picture is misleading, or maybe
it really is a single tube and the chain had been removed.
The rear stay appears to be on the left, so you would still have to take the
chain off the wheel to change a tube (unless the chain was on the left too,
which might be possible, the bottom bracket/chainwheel/crank area is a bit
of a blob). The fork blade is on the right, and the wheel appears to be
offset to the left compared to the headtube (i.e. the steerer becomes the
top of the blade in a straight line, no "crown" area). There's a brackety
thing sticking out from the fork over the wheel for the lower end of the
brake rod (at least I assume it is a brake rod).

And either it's very high quality steel, or the tubes are very thick-walled,
or it's in serious danger of buckling the single tube (doing the job of
seatstays and chainstays, and top and down tubes), which appears no larger
than on a typical triangulated frame, not a big fat (lightweight aluminium)
tube like a Ratcatcher.

There's a copyright credit for the Museum of British Road Transport, Coventry,
but a Google on "site:www.transport-museum.com Invincible" doesn't find it,
and nor does a quick browse of that site.
http://www.transport-museum.com/tourzone/cycles.htm says the cycle gallery
is temporarily closed, new gallery opening 2005.

[email hidden] (Alan Braggins) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

You could even have a 19th century monobladed fork with rod brakes.
http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/collections/exhiblets/lotus/invin.asp

<pedant> A monobladed non-fork, Shirley? </pedant> Maybe "prong" would
be a better term.

--
Dave...

Dave Kahn [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Maybe "prong" would be a better term.

Or even, "tine".

Jon

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 22:38:38 -0000, Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Or even, "tine".

No, I think it's a Humber.

IGMC...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University