Why not use the sidewalk?

"TacomaBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Not meaning to start flames here, so don't anyone be offended. But when I ride around town, I
always (if poosible) use the sidewalk. Particularly becasue I have a suspended moutnain bike, I
find it a lot safer, more convenient, and just sensible.

It is not safer. Sidewalks have pedestrians, driveways, and intersections, all of which make
sidewalks more dangerous than riding on the street.

TacomaBoy <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Not meaning to start flames here, so don't anyone be offended. But when I ride around town, I
always (if poosible) use the sidewalk. Particularly becasue I have a suspended moutnain bike, I
find it a lot safer, more convenient, and just sensible. But for all I know its not legal. I just
don't want to compete with 2500 pound cars going 45+ MPH. I won't win. Just out of curiousity, why
is the road preferred to the sidewalk? I understand some road bikes can't handle the poor terrain.
Not to mention that as a driver (arent we all) I sometimes find it frustrating to find bicyles in
really bad places, on bridges, on the expressway (WTF is THAT), on 65+ MPH roads, and on 40+ MPH
roads in the middle of the lane ( I know they have the right, but they travel 15-20 MPH, and it
can be very dangerous, and causes lots of traffic). I don't have a problem with cyclists around a
neighborhood, on a non-frequently used road, or country road, but I really find it hard to
understand why someoen would want to

ride

Quoted message said:

in such a dangerous manner...

Can anyone shed some light for me?

Riding sidewalks is illegal most places as far as I'm aware (and it most certainly is here), it's
also slower with all the stop-starting and pedestrian avoiding.

Cyclists will often take the centre of the lane to be seen - riding down the side of the road
encourages idiots in cars to either not see you, or decide they can squeeze past you without having
to cross that deadly white line to

down, give the cyclist space and time to make their moves, and FFS, show some freaking patience
before speeding back up again. _You_ as a car driver, can accelerate away afterwards with little or
no effort, and if coming across cyclists on the road costs you an extra 5 minutes (tops!) on your
journey time, 5 minutes is sweat FA.

Open your mind a little, and see this from the perspective of those who have to or even just choose
to travel by bike on the road - it couldn't be more simple.

Shaun aRe - An amazing amount of problems can be solved by seeing through another's eyes.

TacomaBoy <[email hidden]> spoke thusly...

Quoted message said:

Not meaning to start flames here, so don't anyone be offended. But when I ride around town, I
always (if poosible) use the sidewalk. Particularly becasue I have a suspended moutnain bike, I
find it a lot safer, more convenient, and just sensible. But for all I know its not legal. I just
don't want to compete with 2500 pound cars going 45+ MPH. I won't win. Just out of curiousity, why
is the road preferred to the sidewalk? I understand some road bikes can't handle the poor terrain.
Not to mention that as a driver (arent we all) I sometimes find it frustrating to find bicyles in
really bad places, on bridges, on the expressway (WTF is THAT), on 65+ MPH roads, and on 40+ MPH
roads in the middle of the lane ( I know they have the right, but they travel 15-20 MPH, and it
can be very dangerous, and causes lots of traffic). I don't have a problem with cyclists around a
neighborhood, on a non-frequently used road, or country road, but I really find it hard to
understand why someoen would want to ride in such a dangerous manner...

Can anyone shed some light for me?

I know in my town it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk. just ride the roads to play it safe.

a few tips for road riding (other can and most likely will chip in). ride predictably. if you ride
erratically, drivers won't know where you are going and will get frustrated. use hand signals. even
if you don't use the proper ones, pointing when you plan to make a turn (with enough advance time to
alert any drivers) is usually enough. follow all traffic laws just as a car has to. and try and at
least stay under the speed
limit. this may sound strange, but i have actually gotten stopped for speeding through a residential
area (37 in a 25 zone i think it was. or maybe it was 27 in a 15 zone, i can't remember) got
off with just a warning as the cop didn't really think it was justifiable to write out a
ticket (no licence, or even a licence plate to write on the ticket anyway).
--
~Travis

travis57 at megalink dot net megalink.net~farmersOpen ↗

"Ken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"TacomaBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Not meaning to start flames here, so don't anyone be offended. But when I ride around town, I
always (if poosible) use the sidewalk. Particularly becasue I have a suspended moutnain bike, I
find it a lot safer, more convenient, and just sensible.

It is not safer. Sidewalks have pedestrians, driveways, and

intersections,

Quoted message said:

all of which make sidewalks more dangerous than riding on the street.

I did think about pedestrians.. back on campus it was illegal to ride on the sidewalk due to soooo
many of them. But on your average sidewalk there are not many, and I would rather hit a pedestrian
and bruise them up (and myself) then be flattened out by a car or truck... I am not saying its good
to hit a ped, just the lesser if the two evils IMO. But I do understand about the intersections,
they are a PITA.

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TacomaBoy <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Not meaning to start flames here, so don't anyone be offended. But when

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ride around town, I always (if poosible) use the sidewalk. Particularly becasue I have a
suspended moutnain bike, I find it a lot safer, more convenient, and just sensible. But for all
I know its not legal. I

just

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

don't want to compete with 2500 pound cars going 45+ MPH. I won't win. Just out of curiousity,
why is the road preferred to the sidewalk? I understand some road bikes can't handle the poor
terrain. Not to

mention

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that as a driver (arent we all) I sometimes find it frustrating to find bicyles in really bad
places, on bridges, on the expressway (WTF is

THAT),

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on 65+ MPH roads, and on 40+ MPH roads in the middle of the lane ( I

know

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they have the right, but they travel 15-20 MPH, and it can be very dangerous, and causes lots of
traffic). I don't have a problem with cyclists around a neighborhood, on a non-frequently used
road, or

country

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

road, but I really find it hard to understand why someoen would want to

ride

Quoted message said:

in such a dangerous manner...

Can anyone shed some light for me?

Riding sidewalks is illegal most places as far as I'm aware (and it most certainly is here), it's
also slower with all the stop-starting and pedestrian avoiding.

Cyclists will often take the centre of the lane to be seen - riding down

the

Quoted message said:

side of the road encourages idiots in cars to either not see you, or

decide

Quoted message said:

they can squeeze past you without having to cross that deadly white line

to

Quoted message said:

down, give the cyclist space and time to make their moves, and FFS, show some freaking patience
before speeding back up again. _You_ as a car

driver,

Quoted message said:

can accelerate away afterwards with little or no effort, and if coming across cyclists on the road
costs you an extra 5 minutes (tops!) on your journey time, 5 minutes is sweat FA.

Open your mind a little, and see this from the perspective of those who

have

Quoted message said:

to or even just choose to travel by bike on the road - it couldn't be more simple.

Shaun aRe - An amazing amount of problems can be solved by seeing through another's eyes.

I am always cautious with cyclists, dont get me wrong. But it seems selfish to me that they
cause people in cars to slow down so much when they could just choose a slower route, i.e. why
choose Mopac bridge (for those of us in Austin) instead of some other route... I dont mean to
sound like an A-hole, and I really should just stfu so I dont make enemies here, but I just dont
understand it. One cyclists causing traffic problems for many many cars, and IMO its not even
worth the risk to boot!

Please understand I am just referring to high traffic roadways... oh and BTW, if you HAVE to ride on
the road.. wear a freaking helmet, I cant imagine why I see so many people on Lamar, or some other
high traffic road with no helmet on...

"Technician" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

TacomaBoy <[email hidden]> spoke thusly...

Quoted message said:

Not meaning to start flames here, so don't anyone be offended. But when

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ride around town, I always (if poosible) use the sidewalk. Particularly becasue I have a
suspended moutnain bike, I find it a lot safer, more convenient, and just sensible. But for all
I know its not legal. I

just

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

don't want to compete with 2500 pound cars going 45+ MPH. I won't win. Just out of curiousity,
why is the road preferred to the sidewalk? I understand some road bikes can't handle the poor
terrain. Not to

mention

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that as a driver (arent we all) I sometimes find it frustrating to find bicyles in really bad
places, on bridges, on the expressway (WTF is

THAT),

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on 65+ MPH roads, and on 40+ MPH roads in the middle of the lane ( I

know

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they have the right, but they travel 15-20 MPH, and it can be very dangerous, and causes lots of
traffic). I don't have a problem with cyclists around a neighborhood, on a non-frequently used
road, or

country

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

road, but I really find it hard to understand why someoen would want to

ride

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in such a dangerous manner...

Can anyone shed some light for me?

I know in my town it is illegal to ride on the sidewalk. just ride the roads to play it safe.

a few tips for road riding (other can and most likely will chip in). ride predictably. if you ride
erratically, drivers won't know where you are going and will get frustrated. use hand signals.
even if you don't use the proper ones, pointing when you plan to make a turn (with enough advance
time to alert any drivers) is usually enough. follow all traffic laws just as a car has to. and
try and at least stay under the speed
limit. this may sound strange, but i have actually gotten stopped for speeding through a
residential area (37 in a 25 zone i think it was. or maybe it was 27 in a 15 zone, i can't
remember) got off with just a warning as the cop didn't really think it was justifiable to
write out a ticket (no licence, or even a licence plate to write on the ticket anyway).
--
~Travis

Thats something else that doesnt make a whole lot of sense... why make it illegal to ride on the
sidewalk? I understand at my college campus why it was. Way to many peds. But if I were riding down
to the grocery store and got ticketed for being on the sidewalk, boy would I be [censored]. I would
fight that sucker till I was blue in the face, I dont want to risk my life on the road if there is a
perfectly good sidewalk to use. But maybe I'm crazy.

"TacomaBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote But I do understand

Quoted message said:

about the intersections, they are a PITA.

And *every* driveway, parking lot is an intersection.

Pete

In "]news:[email hidden], TacomaBoy <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

I don't have a problem with cyclists around a neighborhood, on a non-frequently used road, or
country road, but I really find it hard to understand why someoen would want to ride in such a
dangerous manner...

Can anyone shed some light for me?

The answer lies at lesberries.co.ukresearch.htmlOpen ↗ &
bicyclinglife.comriskfactors.htmOpen ↗

Tony

--
raven-family.comraven-family.comOpen ↗

"All truth goes through three steps: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.
Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer

TacomaBoy said:

Not meaning to start flames here, so don't anyone be offended. But when I ride around town, I
always (if poosible) use the sidewalk. Particularly becasue I have a suspended moutnain bike, I
find it a lot safer, more convenient, and just sensible. But for all I know its not legal. I just
don't want to compete with 2500 pound cars going 45+ MPH. I won't win. Just out of curiousity, why
is the road preferred to the sidewalk? I understand some road bikes can't handle the poor terrain.
Not to mention that as a driver (arent we all) I sometimes find it frustrating to find bicyles in
really bad places, on bridges, on the expressway (WTF is THAT), on 65+ MPH roads, and on 40+ MPH
roads in the middle of the lane ( I know they have the right, but they travel 15-20 MPH, and it
can be very dangerous, and causes lots of traffic). I don't have a problem with cyclists around a
neighborhood, on a non-frequently used road, or country road, but I really find it hard to
understand why someoen would want to ride in such a dangerous manner...

Can anyone shed some light for me?

I sorta agree. If i feel like taking my time and goofing off then I always take the sidewalk. I'm
never on the sidewalk if there are more than one 1 or 2 peds per couple of blocks, and I almost
always move to the street or just stop to let them buy. The law says it's wrong but laws are not
always right. Still have to be careful at every driveway though.

If I am trying to get somewhere and will be moving at a good clip then it's time to hit the street,
any street.

TacomaBoy said:

Not meaning to start flames here, so don't anyone be offended. But when I ride around town, I
always (if poosible) use the sidewalk. Particularly becasue I have a suspended moutnain bike, I
find it a lot safer, more convenient, and just sensible. But for all I know its not legal. I just
don't want to compete with 2500 pound cars going 45+ MPH. I won't win. Just out of curiousity, why
is the road preferred to the sidewalk? I understand some road bikes can't handle the poor terrain.
Not to mention that as a driver (arent we all) I sometimes find it frustrating to find bicyles in
really bad places, on bridges, on the expressway (WTF is THAT), on 65+ MPH roads, and on 40+ MPH
roads in the middle of the lane ( I know they have the right, but they travel 15-20 MPH, and it
can be very dangerous, and causes lots of traffic). I don't have a problem with cyclists around a
neighborhood, on a non-frequently used road, or country road, but I really find it hard to
understand why someoen would want to ride in such a dangerous manner...

Can anyone shed some light for me?

You gave the reason: bikes ride at 15-20 mph. That's far too fast for a sidewalk unless it's a wide,
empty one. It requires 10-30 feet to stop. When I take to the sidewalk, I keep my speed way down.
It's courteous and safe but boring unless it's a nice outdoor shopping area with eye candy. The
point of riding a bike is that you can always go exactly as fast as you want. Except on a sidewalk
or bike path.

If I'm taking a large chunk of a (busy) 45-mph road, I'm doing around 30 myself. Otherwise, I'm not
taking a chunk of the driving surface.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

"TacomaBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Thats something else that doesnt make a whole lot of sense... why make it illegal to ride on the
sidewalk? I understand at my college campus why it was. Way to many peds. But if I were riding
down to the grocery store

and

Quoted message said:

got ticketed for being on the sidewalk, boy would I be [censored]. I would fight that sucker till I
was blue in the face, I dont want to risk my life on the road if there is a perfectly good
sidewalk to use. But maybe I'm crazy.

But you'd 'risk your life' on the sidewalk? Even when it is demonstrably and statistically less safe
then the road? MAy be counterintuitive, but it's true.

Sidewalks are not designed nor built for 15+mph traffic. Sightlines, surface, user expectations all
work against riding on the sidewalk.

Now....if you're going to restrict your riding to <10mph...then the sidewalk is probably 'safer'.

Me, I like to actually get somewhere.

Fight a sidewalk ticket, and you'll [censored] a whole lot of cyclists. Allowing universal cycling on
the sidewalk is one short step away from *requiring* cyclists to use the sidewalk.

Pete

These are all good arguments. I suppose it does depend on how and where you are riding. I suppose
maybe I have seent oo many riders in places I would never ride. But personaly, I normally ride
around town (when I do, which is rare) at less than 15MPH, since its hard as hell to get my bike
over 25, its not fast. I see people on 360, which is a very high traffic, fast moving road, and lots
of cyclists there, but there is a very wide shoulder, so it doesnt bother me. But when I see someone
on Mopac bridge (very fast, no shoulder, and its a bridge!) I get pretty upset. But to each thier
own. Still, if I get a ticket riding on the sidewalk, I will fight it. Here is to hoping I dont.

<gomer pyle> "Ooohhh lordy, lordy, look out over there." </gomer pyle

TacomaBoy said:

Can anyone shed some light for me?

Next time you're driving, think..

1) Did you REALLY think about it when you drove across every sidewalk (most don't consistently)?
2) Do you EVER look to your right when you're making a right turn (most don't)?

There are some routes I take that make short stints on the sidewalk a distinct possibility (heavily
trafficed 6-lane roads with no shoulder, for example), but I avoid them like the plague whenever
possible - AND change my riding style dramatically when I AM on the sidewalk (go slower, slow on
blind driveway crossings, scan for cars turning right before crossing an intersection).

But generally, it's much, much safer out in the street where cars will be more likely to see you.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

"TacomaBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Not meaning to start flames here, so don't anyone be offended. But

when I

Quoted message said:

ride around town, I always (if poosible) use the sidewalk.

Particularly

Quoted message said:

becasue I have a suspended moutnain bike, I find it a lot safer,

more

Quoted message said:

convenient, and just sensible. But for all I know its not legal. I

just

Quoted message said:

don't want to compete with 2500 pound cars going 45+ MPH. I won't

win.

Quoted message said:

Just out of curiousity, why is the road preferred to the sidewalk?

I

Quoted message said:

understand some road bikes can't handle the poor terrain. Not to

mention

Quoted message said:

that as a driver (arent we all) I sometimes find it frustrating to

find

Quoted message said:

bicyles in really bad places, on bridges, on the expressway (WTF is

THAT),

Quoted message said:

on 65+ MPH roads, and on 40+ MPH roads in the middle of the lane ( I

know

Quoted message said:

they have the right, but they travel 15-20 MPH, and it can be very dangerous, and causes lots of
traffic). I don't have a problem with cyclists around a neighborhood, on a non-frequently used
road, or

country

Quoted message said:

road, but I really find it hard to understand why someoen would want

to ride

Quoted message said:

in such a dangerous manner...

Can anyone shed some light for me?

I don't like to bike on the sidewalk, cause if they start letting me do it, then they'll start
letting other people who bike like me do it, and then I'd be scared as hell to walk anywhere.

- Chris.

RE/

Quoted message said:

Just out of curiousity, why is the road preferred to the sidewalk?

Depends on who you talk to and where they're riding.

My take is that conditions vary so drastically from place-to-place that a practice that is sensible
in one place is tanatmount to suicide in another.
-----------------------
PeteCresswell

RE/

Quoted message said:

AND change my riding style dramatically when I AM on the sidewalk (go slower, slow on blind
driveway crossings, scan for cars turning right before crossing an intersection).

I think you've nailed something that causes a lot of conflict between posts.

Some people are thinking about riding a sidewalk at "traffic speed" and others are thinking in terms
of a jogger's speed.
-----------------------
PeteCresswell

It's ok. I used to do it all the time. Then I got my drivers license and quit riding my bike.

I use sidewalks all the time and I have never had a cop look twice at me for being on the sidewalk.
I ride around in Chicago several times a year on bike. A few years ago I asked a cop if it was OK to
ride a bike on the sidewalk. He thought it was a strange question. Why would anyone care if I rode a
bike on the sidewalk? I think It depends on the sidewalk whether or not it is safer than the road.
If you have a good view of the driveways and alleys that cross the sidewalk, then they are
preferable to the road, IMO. If there are buildings, hedges, fences or whatever that make for blind
intersections, then sidewalks can be extremely hazardous at anything faster than walking speed.