Children should wear bicycle helmets.

James Annan said:

Tony Raven said:

And the world population of wild sheep is?

They've done better than merely surviving as "wild". They have enlisted
an army of humans to feed and shelter them, in exchange for their
unwanted hair and carcases when they die. Sounds like they are the smart
ones!

And the dangerous ones:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/4088497.stm

Armed police shoot errant sheep
Sheep

The sheep was a "danger", say police

A sheep was shot by armed police on Saturday after wandering on to busy
roads from a roundabout in Swindon.

The animal took up residence on the Commonhead roundabout near the Great
Western Hospital at 9am, before being shot in a nearby field.

The owner could not be traced, despite the efforts of local farmers and
vets, but the animal did not suffer unnecessarily, said police.

A Wiltshire police spokeswoman said the sheep was a danger to the public.

"It was standing on the roundabout and at times wandering into the
carriageway," she said.

"A decision was made to deploy armed police officers to destroy the
animal as an absolute last resort."

Tony

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:25:23 +0000 someone who may be Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

* Send out native missionaries -- over 90,000 now on the field.
* Plant new churches -- over 52,000 each year -- 1000 every week.
* Conduct evangelistic campaigns, broadcast on radio & TV,
distribute literature.
* Are training 40,000 new workers in hundreds of Bible institutes.

Does NOT mention "free bibles with the food". I have yet to hear of
a Christian Aid programme that offers "free bibles with the food",
but if anyone wants to convince me they know of one let them try.

Quoted message said:

But despite being variants of the same faith, they see fit to kill one
another over those variations.

Another example of mixing up the (claimed) interpretations of some
people of a religion with the religion.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:29:53 +0000 someone who may be Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Nope. I presume that they have both publicly questioned Christianity,

Not quite. A previous Bishop of Durham mentioned in public things
which have been discussed for a century or more by those with a deep
faith. He was criticised for this by some sections of the Church of
England.

York Minster was hit by lightning shortly before his Enthronement,
with people claiming this was a sign of disapproval from "on high".

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

James Annan said:

Tony Raven said:

And the world population of wild sheep is?

They've done better than merely surviving as "wild". They have enlisted
an army of humans to feed and shelter them, in exchange for their
unwanted hair and carcases when they die. Sounds like they are the smart
ones!

And the dangerous ones:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/4088497.stm

Armed police shoot errant sheep
Sheep

The sheep was a "danger", say police

I think it lunged unexpectedly towards a table and looked like it would get
the legs off it.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 15:35:26 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be Ian
Smith <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

It was more a case of was reported as holding, rather than holding.

Agreed.

Quoted message said:

After all, if you say "the resurrection was not just a conjuring
trick with bones"

My recollection is that he said, "the resurrection was more than a
conjuring trick with bones". Whatever the precise wording it seemed
entirely consistent with the teachings of the Church of England to
me.

The deliberate distortion by the tabloid press revealed much about
them, but nothing about Mr Jenkins.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 11:58:36 +0000 someone who may be JLB
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

There's another important facet to the emphasis that religions like
Christianity give to the afterlife - the "you get pie in the sky when
you die" idea. It is useful in dissuading people lower down the pecking
order from trying to improve the [censored] they get in this life.

Christian Aid's slogan is still "We believe in life before death"
AFAIK.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen said:

My recollection is that he said, "the resurrection was more than a
conjuring trick with bones". Whatever the precise wording it seemed
entirely consistent with the teachings of the Church of England to
me.

The deliberate distortion by the tabloid press revealed much about
them, but nothing about Mr Jenkins.

So presumably the divine retribution on York Minster was based on what
the tabloids, not the Bishop, said then.

Tony

David Hansen said:

Another example of mixing up the (claimed) interpretations of some
people of a religion with the religion.

How do you (I mean the David Hansen you, not the general who)
distinguish between these two thing?

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is
by treading on the toes of giants.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/

David Hansen said:

Does NOT mention "free bibles with the food". I have yet to hear of
a Christian Aid programme that offers "free bibles with the food",
but if anyone wants to convince me they know of one let them try.

Ah. So you are able to take my words literally, rather than to view the
general sense of what I write, but should anyone do the same to you, you
complain and deny everything. Good to clear up the position.

And what is encompassed by "distribute literature" is open to debate.
The basic premise (Which was somewhat obvious to anyone but a cornered
pedant) was that the motives of Christian Aid and similar organisations
are primarily based on the conversion of those who "have not seen the
light" and that actual physical aid takes second place.

Quoted message said:

Another example of mixing up the (claimed) interpretations of some
people of a religion with the religion.

What is a religion if not how it is interpreted? Is there some
underlying "pure" religion which is somehow distorted by its adherents,
or does the faith of those adherents define religion?

Jon

half_pint said:

Wha are you talking about?

The relevance of your list of articles but I wouldn't expect you to
understand, I made the mistake of using English,

Quoted message said:

I won't die whilst I am alive and have anything to say about it.

That's going on a T-shirt. Even by the standards of gibberish that I've
come to expect from you, that's priceless. I'm almost afraid to ask what
you actually meant for fear that it'll detract from the comic value.

Quoted message said:

You can supply your own questions..

And if you supply the wrong questions. Go straight to Hell. Do not pass
Go. Do not collect £200.

Quoted message said:

What is "make the most of it?", most atheists end up in jail or in an early
grave.
They all have pretty miserable lives.

Cite (Properly this time).

Quoted message said:

And one does not require a belief in absolute unscientific bollocks (big
bang).

Interesting that you presume to understand science well enough to
pronounce on the Big Band theory, yet you have yet to grasp the basics
principles that define science. It's probably best that you master
crawling before you attempt to Riverdance.

Quoted message said:

How can something which does not exist decay?

You'll just have to read his book. I predict that you'd make it about
two sentences in before you reach the limits of your understanding.

Quoted message said:

Have any non-existant entities been observed decaying in the laboratory?

I have no idea. It's not an area of research that I've concerned myself
with greatly as my chosen area of specialisation was the smaller side of
biology.

Jon

Tumbleweed said:

I think it lunged unexpectedly towards a table and looked like it would get
the legs off it.

You bleat me to it.

Jon

Jon Senior said:

Tumbleweed said:

I think it lunged unexpectedly towards a table and looked like it
would get the legs off it.

You bleat me to it.

Bah!

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is
by treading on the toes of giants.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 01:33:02 +0000, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk said:

half_pint wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And one does not require a belief in absolute unscientific bollocks (big
bang).

Interesting that you presume to understand science well enough to
pronounce on the Big Band theory...

As developed by Glenn Miller?

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 08:54:32 +0900 someone who may be James Annan
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

How do you (I mean the David Hansen you, not the general who)
distinguish between these two thing?

If the vast majority of adherents to these religions do not see fit
to kill one another over those variations, then one can be certain
that the situation is as I describe.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 01:25:32 +0000 someone who may be Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

The basic premise (Which was somewhat obvious to anyone but a cornered
pedant) was that the motives of Christian Aid and similar organisations
are primarily based on the conversion of those who "have not seen the
light" and that actual physical aid takes second place.

It is an accusation that has been made against Christian Aid from
time to time. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would love to
prove the accusation is correct, but so far have failed to do so.
When challenged the claims become more vague.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:25:23 +0000 someone who may be Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Taken from the home page of Christian Aid U.S.A., the parent
organisation of the UK agency of the same name.

Completely and utterly incorrect.

http://www.christian-aid.org.uk/aboutca/index.htm

"An agency of the churches in the UK and Ireland, Christian Aid
works wherever the need is greatest, irrespective of religion. It
supports local organisations, which are best placed to understand
local needs, as well as giving help on the ground through 16
overseas offices.

"Christian Aid believes in strengthening people to find their own
solutions to the problems they face. It strives for a new world
transformed by an end to poverty and campaigns to change the rules
that keep people poor."

http://www.christian-aid.org.uk/aboutca/who/history.htm has a short
history for those wish to research the subject.

http://www.christian-aid.org.uk/aboutca/faq.htm provides the answer
to some assertions:

"Does Christian Aid only help Christians?

"No. Christian Aid funds projects that help people regardless of
their beliefs. Some of the work we fund is done through local
Christian organisations, but it is for the benefit of all.

"Does Christian Aid carry out missionary work?

"Christian Aid is not a missionary society but an overseas
development agency, sponsored by 40 British and Irish Churches. If
you are interested in carrying out missionary work you could contact
the following organisations:
The British and Foreign Bible Society
Tearfund: www.tearfund.org
Oscar: www.oscar.org.uk - the UK Information Service for World
Mission"

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen said:

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 09:23:12 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be
[email hidden] (Chris Malcolm) wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've yet to hear of a committee of scientists deciding that someone
who had published a disagreement with their views should have the
bones in his hands crushed, his tongue torn out, his feet roasted over
a slow fire, or be blown to bits or otherwise assassinated by a
Good Soldier of the Faith.

Quoted message said:

That tells you about the attitudes of society at the time, not
religion.

There are still Good Soldiers of the Faith blowing themselves to bits
in order to get rid those of whom (in their opinion) God has
damned. But scientists aren't doing that, nor do I think they ever
did.
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

David Hansen said:

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 00:25:23 +0000 someone who may be Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Taken from the home page of Christian Aid U.S.A., the parent
organisation of the UK agency of the same name.

Completely and utterly incorrect.

http://www.christian-aid.org.uk/aboutca/index.htm

"An agency of the churches in the UK and Ireland, Christian Aid
works wherever the need is greatest, irrespective of religion. It
supports local organisations, which are best placed to understand
local needs, as well as giving help on the ground through 16
overseas offices.

"Christian Aid believes in strengthening people to find their own
solutions to the problems they face. It strives for a new world
transformed by an end to poverty and campaigns to change the rules
that keep people poor."

http://www.christian-aid.org.uk/aboutca/who/history.htm has a short
history for those wish to research the subject.

http://www.christian-aid.org.uk/aboutca/faq.htm provides the answer
to some assertions:

"Does Christian Aid only help Christians?

"No. Christian Aid funds projects that help people regardless of
their beliefs. Some of the work we fund is done through local
Christian organisations, but it is for the benefit of all.

"Does Christian Aid carry out missionary work?

"Christian Aid is not a missionary society but an overseas
development agency, sponsored by 40 British and Irish Churches. If
you are interested in carrying out missionary work you could contact
the following organisations:
The British and Foreign Bible Society
Tearfund: www.tearfund.org
Oscar: www.oscar.org.uk - the UK Information Service for World
Mission"

Good heavens what the dickens is so difficult about understanding the
premiss of this. Christian refers to the giver, it is a ' Christian'
thing to give 'aid'. As the Samaritan did on the road to Damascus.
Like love the aid is unconditional otherwise it would not be truly
Christian.
If any one out there truly believes that one can hold a six year old
child in one's hands and not feel ones heart tear when they look at you
with such hopelessness and distance must be either completely mad or
devoid of all human feelings.

Sniper8052.

Chris Malcolm said:

There are still Good Soldiers of the Faith blowing themselves to bits
in order to get rid those of whom (in their opinion) God has
damned. But scientists aren't doing that, nor do I think they ever
did.

Scientists are too smart for that but they have got others to blow up
quite a few of the opposition for them. What was that letter Szilard
had Einstein write to Roosevelt?

Tony

Jon Senior jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk said:

Tony Raven wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes but the logical approach would be that since its certain to end in
oblivion then does it matter when that oblivion comes and what I do in
the life leading up to it. What's the point of living the next 20 years
of my life when oblivion will waste all that effort?

Quoted message said:

Can you pick and choose or do you have to have the same one your parents
opted for. I believe that some offer a minimum of 72 virgins (Although I
did notice that there is nothing in the contract regarding gender, so
that may be a bum deal).

I think the 72 virgins is actually a mistranslation of the ancient
Syriac meaning white raisins. It's curious the way these omnipotent
and omniscient gods are so careless with their ghost writers and
publishing arrangements.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,2763,631357,00.html
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]