What improves the efficiency of a bicycle?

neil-<< What would have the greatest influence on the efficiency and in approximate order of
importance .

Bike fit is first, the others a pretty distant second.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Neil: Unless body flexibility is a problem, why not a "road" bike instead of a hibrid. I'm 66 and
have road bikes and mountain bikes.

As you start increasing your speed, Drag is a big factor and you are in a more aerodynamic position
on a road bike. The hybrid has a more upright position.

charlie On Fri said:

I currently ride a mountain bike and I am just over 60 years old and have only been riding a bike
for the last 2 years. I am interested in moving to a hybrid bike as I am finding that it is getting
more difficult to increase the distance that I ride in one session.

Member Help Community Leader

Quoted message said:

Perhaps someone could direct me to an article on the web that would answer this question.

analyticcycling.comanalyticcycling.comOpen ↗ has some good info on this

"Neil" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I currently ride a mountain bike and I am just over 60 years old and have only been riding a bike
for the last 2 years. I am interested in moving to

a

Quoted message said:

hybrid bike as I am finding that it is getting more difficult to increase the distance that I ride
in one session. Last month I did a 90 km ride and about 20 km of this ride was in a fairly hilly
area. My aim is to do a

100

Quoted message said:

km ride and perhaps later go to the 100 miles. I would like to know what things improve the
efficiency of a bike and which of these has the

greatest

Quoted message said:

bearing on improving the efficiency. For example I realise that weight of bike, position of the
cyclist when riding, tyre width, wheel diameter, etc all affect the efficiency. What would have
the greatest influence on the efficiency and in approximate

order

Quoted message said:

of importance. Perhaps someone could direct me to an article on the web

that

Quoted message said:

would answer this question. Neil

(Qui si parla Campagnolo) said:

neil-<< What would have the greatest influence on the efficiency and in approximate order of
importance .

Bike fit is first, the others a pretty distant second.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

after fit ...

High(er) pressure "slick" tyres.. -Tioga City Slickers -Specialized Fat Boy -Continental Goliath
-Ritchy Tom Slick

Toe clips or Clipless pedals (but be careful of knee strain)

In my opinion (zero actual evidence) Hybrid bikes have always seemed less efficient than
Mountain bikes..

Quoted message said:

Neil: Unless body flexibility is a problem, why not a "road" bike instead of a hibrid. I'm 66 and
have road bikes and mountain bikes.

As you start increasing your speed, Drag is a big factor and you are in a more aerodynamic
position on a road bike. The hybrid has a more upright position.

charlie

For longer rides, having the multiple positions of a road bike is much better than the one (two with
bar ends) position of a hybrid.

Mike

Wind resistance (the more stooped over the better, but the more unpleasant), and tires (the thinner
and harder and more expensive the better, but the more flats).

Weight doesn't matter much.

However, good pacing lets you do infinite distance on any bike. A fat-tire upright bike takes
longer, is all.

The workout you get doesn't depend on efficiency at all but you might like going faster and farther
at the same rate of work.

If it's _time on the bike_ that does you in, that is, comfort, that's another matter. Get a saddle
that fits you right and make sure it's the right distance from the pedals; experiment. A longer seat
post might help if the frame is too small otherwise.
--
Ron Hardin [email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I currently ride a mountain bike and I am just over 60 years old and have only been riding a bike
for the last 2 years. I am interested in moving to a hybrid bike as I am finding that it is getting
more difficult to increase the distance that I ride in one session. Last month I did a 90 km ride
and about 20 km of this ride was in a fairly hilly area. My aim is to do a 100 km ride and perhaps
later go to the 100 miles. I would like to know what things improve the efficiency of a bike and
which of these has the greatest bearing on improving the efficiency. For example I realise that
weight of bike, position of the cyclist when riding, tyre width, wheel diameter, etc all affect the
efficiency. What would have the greatest influence on the efficiency and in approximate order of
importance. Perhaps someone could direct me to an article on the web that would answer this
question.

The first thing to do is to switch wide knobby tires to skinny slick tires. Keep in mind that when
you switch tires, you might end up with an uncomfortable ride since you will have to pump up the
skinny tires to a much higher pressures than you did with the knobby tires. After the tires I would
look at my position on the bike. A lower position on the bike will be more efficient, assuming you
can get comfortable in the new position.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

Mike S. <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> schreef in berichtnieuws uS0Ea.145928$eJ2.61171@fed1read07...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Neil: Unless body flexibility is a problem, why not a "road" bike instead of a hibrid. I'm 66
and have road bikes and mountain bikes.

As you start increasing your speed, Drag is a big factor and you are in a more aerodynamic
position on a road bike. The hybrid has a more upright position.

charlie

For longer rides, having the multiple positions of a road bike is much better than the one (two
with bar ends) position of a hybrid.

Modern road bikes come with brake/shifter handles often more than E 100,- more expensive than their
flat-bar counterparts. This gives the customer a brake lever(s)he's not used to and might not like.
If the customer never uses the drops, because (s)he does not want to bend so deep, the number of
positions of positions on a drop bar are just as limited as on a flat bar, and even more limited
than on a multiposition handlebar, which has nice foam grip as a standard bonus. A drop bar also
forces a person to put the hands close to the rotating point in an upright position, which makes
steering more difficult, especially if you're used to the wide handlebar of a mountainbike. Also,
not everyone likes having to bend forward in a descent; a flat bar increases drag and makes coasting
feel safer, or just plain safer period.

It bothers me that while 'bike fit' is always mentioned as the most important factor in choosing a
bike, few people consider handlebar fit to be anything beyond the width of a drop bar. Sometimes, a
flat handlebar is the best solution, in spite of the fact that it does not give the most aerodynamic
position. A multiposition handlebar also gives a lot of variation, without having to bend forward. A
road bike is not 'better' than a hybrid or 'fittness bike'.

Jonathan.

The best way to squeeze the most efficiency out of a bike is to be sure it fits the rider as best as
possible. There are many sources that tell how to do this (I have a basic guide on my site), But the
best way is hands on with a good LBS that knows how.

Next is aerodynamics. Any where from 60-80 percent of the energy you put into the pedals is spent
pushing air out of the way. This is the main reason for the dropped bars, Less effort required to go
the same speed.

Making sure the bike is in top running condition is third. If something isn't working correctly, it
could sap energy from the rider's efforts.

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": geocities.comczcornerOpen ↗

Neil, I am 52 been riding for a couple of years like you. Could easily get to 50 miles but durring that time my hands would go to sleep, (I was riding a Giant Cross Trainer), my butt ached, felt like I had a cob up it, my knees hurt, and while I loved biking and endured the discomfort, was not happ with my situation.

I decided that I had to do something drastically different if I was to keep riding with the regularity that I wanted to. I ride approximately 20 to 50 miles per day, whenever the weather permits. I started looking at my options and finally settled the issue with a recumbent. NO MORE PAIN OR DISCOMFORT WHATEVER.

You should take a gander at the recumbent thread in this forum. You will be suprised. I don't know why I resisted so long. I did my first century ride two weeks ago, 109 miles, 5 hours and 40 minutes riding time, 6 hours and 10 minutes elapsed time. I got off the bike feeling refreshed, yet still got a great workout.

I chose a RANS bike: www.rans.com

Anyway, just thought you might like to hear a different viewpoint.

A Mighty Happy Rider Now!😄

RE/

Quoted message said:

when riding, tyre width, wheel diameter, etc all affect the efficiency. What would have the
greatest influence on the efficiency and in approximate order

I've found about a 20% diff between fat tires (WTB Mutano Raptors at 40-45 psi) and narow slicks
(1.25", 90 psi). It's not very precise, but it's the same bike, just different tires riding a
(really boring...) long paves straightaway an noting my maximum sustainable crusing speed. This is
over maybe a half-dozen trials of each for 20 miles at a time.

I can't put a number on it, but for road riding, my hardtail definately goes faster longer with the
same energy. Probably true for off-road too, but for me the pounding outweighs it.

Bottom line, I'd put money on the hardtail with 90 psi slicks being a good 25% more efficient than
my full sus w/the fat tires.
-----------------------
PeteCresswell

Neil said:

I currently ride a mountain bike and I am just over 60 years old and have only been riding a bike
for the last 2 years. I am interested in moving to a hybrid bike as I am finding that it is getting
more difficult to increase the distance that I ride in one session.

A bicycle is a pretty efficient device and the weight of it is not a limiting factor in going far
unless the package, including the rider is heavy. You just need to get tires that roll well. Getting
up to a 700c tire with a width of 700x25 or 700x28 should be fine. I assume that you are turned off
by turned down bars. If you aren't getting a road bicycle or touring model is also a good choice.
Forget the distance and enjoy your riding time. Sixty years old is not much. I do my my distance
rides on a regular road bike <caltriplecrown.comFame.htmOpen ↗

You asked about improving the efficiency of a bicycle, I agree with most poster that said that road
bicycle with drop handlebar, narrow tires and a proper fit is the most efficiency. I also feel that
the body and muscle development is important, and takes time. I have rode a touring bicycle for 35
years, last year I acquired a road bicycle also. The weight is about half 21 vs. 40 pounds I still
use the touring bicycle with rain gear, and spare parts on my long trips. On the touring bicycle I
celebrated my 69th birthday by riding 227 miles in 22 hours, from Philadelphia PA to Cape May NJ.
billcotton.combillcotton.comOpen ↗ Last year I celebrated my 70th birthday by riding 340 miles in 40 hours.
much of it in rain. Next week, for my 71st birthday, I will extend the route to 400 miles in 40
hours, by riding west from Philadelphia and meet the BicyclePA "L" route, ride it south to the
Delaware state line and the Delaware Bicycle Route 1 and Follow Bicycle Route 1 to Ocean highway to
Ocean City Maryland. Cues are on my web pages. I have done four 100 miles century this year, alone
at my pace, 11 to 12 miles per hour, from 2000 to 7000 feet of elevation gain. When I ride at my
pace, I can go for ever and not get tired, I rode a hilly 50 miles 13 to 15 mph level with our club
earlier this season and I was sore for a while. "Neil" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I currently ride a mountain bike and I am just over 60 years old and have only been riding a bike
for the last 2 years. I am interested in moving to

a

Quoted message said:

hybrid bike as I am finding that it is getting more difficult to increase the distance that I ride
in one session. Last month I did a 90 km ride and about 20 km of this ride was in a fairly hilly
area. My aim is to do a

100

Quoted message said:

km ride and perhaps later go to the 100 miles. I would like to know what things improve the
efficiency of a bike and which of these has the

greatest

Quoted message said:

bearing on improving the efficiency. For example I realise that weight of bike, position of the
cyclist when riding, tyre width, wheel diameter, etc all affect the efficiency. What would have
the greatest influence on the efficiency and in approximate

order

Quoted message said:

of importance. Perhaps someone could direct me to an article on the web

that

Quoted message said:

would answer this question. Neil

--
// Bill Cotton: Latitude N40° 03.756' W75° 06.192' / / Phone 215 663-8363 Data 215 663-8364 //
[email hidden] [email hidden] // [email hidden] [email hidden] //
www.billcotton.com

"Neil" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I currently ride a mountain bike and I am just over 60 years old and have only been riding a bike
for the last 2 years.

why mention age, what do you think that has to do with it?

Quoted message said:

I am interested in moving to a hybrid bike as I am finding that it is getting more difficult to
increase the distance that I ride in one session.

A new bike isn't the solution, more riding is.

Quoted message said:

Last month I did a 90 km ride and about 20 km of this ride was in a fairly hilly area. My aim is
to do a 100 km ride and perhaps later go to the 100 miles.

Quoted message said:

I would like to know what things improve the efficiency of a bike and which of these has the
greatest bearing on improving the efficiency.

Aerodynamic drag, tire losses, drivetrain losses.

Aerodynamic drag losses go up as the cube of speed, so they dominate when you go fast. Tire losses
go up with speed directly, so which loss dominates is a matter of how fast you're going and how
lossy your tires are. Usually, it's aerodynamics, by far.

Tire losses are proportional to the thickness, amount, and degree of bending in a tire. This is
determined by tread, tube, and sidewall thickness, width, and inflation pressure.

Drivetrain losses are pretty fixed, but small, dirty/rusty/worn chains can increase them.

faqs.orgpreamble.htmlOpen ↗

analyticcycling.comanalyticcycling.comOpen ↗

RE/

Quoted message said:

why mention age, what do you think that has to do with it?

Sixty is just a fond memory for me. Thinking back on my riding when I was in my twenties and
thirties, I'd say that age has a significant role.

The body gets stiffer (everywhere but...) and aero positioning that made sense at an earlier age
doesn't make so much sense anymore.

There's more, but I'll leave it at that....
-----------------------
PeteCresswell

Peter Cole said:

Aerodynamic drag losses go up as the cube of speed, so they dominate when you go fast. Tire losses
go up with speed directly, so which loss dominates is a matter of how fast you're going and how
lossy your tires are. Usually, it's aerodynamics, by far.

Tire losses are proportional to the thickness, amount, and degree of bending in a tire. This is
determined by tread, tube, and sidewall thickness, width, and inflation pressure.

Drivetrain losses are pretty fixed, but small, dirty/rusty/worn chains can increase them.

Aerodynamic losses go as the square of the speed; tire losses are independent of speed. _power_
multiplies in additional factor of speed, but for a fixed distance power doesn't matter, only total
work, which just multiplies by the distance (force times distance equals work).

Your additional factor of ``speed'' comes from division by the time for the trip, not from an
actual speed, so to speak. Work for the trip divided by time for the trip equals average power
for the trip.

A loss is in additional work, not additional power.
--
Ron Hardin [email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

Ron Hardin said:

tire losses are independent of speed. _power_ multiplies in additional factor of speed,

One amusing consequence of tire losses increasing directly with speed would be that above a certain
speed, you could go faster by locking up wheel with the brakes and skidding. It sounds like a safety
violation here.
--
Ron Hardin [email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike S. <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> schreef in berichtnieuws uS0Ea.145928$eJ2.61171@fed1read07...

Quoted message said:

Modern road bikes come with brake/shifter handles often more than E 100,- more expensive than
their flat-bar counterparts. This gives the customer a brake lever(s)he's not used to and might
not like. If the customer never uses the drops, because (s)he does not want to bend so deep, the
number of positions of positions on a drop bar are just as limited as on a flat bar, and even more
limited than on a multiposition handlebar, which has nice

foam

Quoted message said:

grip as a standard bonus. A drop bar also forces a person to put the hands close to the rotating
point in an upright position, which makes steering more difficult, especially if you're used to
the wide handlebar of a mountainbike. Also, not everyone likes having to bend forward in a

descent;

Quoted message said:

a flat bar increases drag and makes coasting feel safer, or just plain

safer

Quoted message said:

period.

It bothers me that while 'bike fit' is always mentioned as the most important factor in choosing a
bike, few people consider handlebar fit to

be

Quoted message said:

anything beyond the width of a drop bar. Sometimes, a flat handlebar is

the

Quoted message said:

best solution, in spite of the fact that it does not give the most aerodynamic position. A
multiposition handlebar also gives a lot of variation, without having to bend forward. A road bike
is not 'better'

than

Quoted message said:

a hybrid or 'fittness bike'.

Jonathan.

Jonathan you must be on drugs to come up with this BS. I own six bikes from a road bicycle to a
mountain bicycle and everything in between. There is simply no compairing a road bike to a mountain
bike in efficiency. To use a car analogy a road bike is like driving a Ferrari and a mountain bike
is like driving a four wheel drive truck. Road bikes are designed for traveling long distances
quickly while mountain bikes are designed for off road use. People that ride mountain bikes on the
road aren't using the best tool for the job. I can easily travel 2 to 3 mph faster on a road bike
than on a mountain bike.

You could fit a road bike with a straight handle bar but once again why would you want to. The
straight bar means that you are going to be catching a lot more air when riding and is not any more
confortable than drop bars once you get used to them. Most road races are 60 miles long or more with
the pros doing 120 miles or longer. Contrast this with mountain bike races and I think you start to
wonder why some people think road bikes are uncomfortabe compared to mountain bikes.

I think Jonathan's problem is one of fitting. First, he complaints about "having to bend forward" to
use a drop bar. Well, If his bars are too low, he will bend forward. What it sounds like is Jonathan
needs to *raise* his handlebars to get a more comfortable position.

As for flat bars being better than *multiposition* bars, it sounds as if Jonathan does ride very
far. If he rode say 50+mile rides, he would know the superiority of having *multiposition* -
allows you to move your hands around. Flat bars keep your hands in one position, not very good on
long rides.

I recommend Jonathan read the following:

rivbike.com101 dropbars.htmlOpen ↗ rivbike.comrr comfposition.htmlOpen ↗
rivbike.combikes framesize.htmlOpen ↗ peterwhitecycles.comfitting.htmOpen ↗ and
finally: sheldonbrown.comframesOpen ↗

"Jim Quinn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike S. <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> schreef in berichtnieuws uS0Ea.145928$eJ2.61171@fed1read07...

Quoted message said:

Modern road bikes come with brake/shifter handles often more than E

100,-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more expensive than their flat-bar counterparts. This gives the customer

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

brake lever(s)he's not used to and might not like. If the customer never uses the drops, because
(s)he does not want to bend so deep, the number

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

positions of positions on a drop bar are just as limited as on a flat

bar,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and even more limited than on a multiposition handlebar, which has nice

foam

Quoted message said:

grip as a standard bonus. A drop bar also forces a person to put the

hands

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

close to the rotating point in an upright position, which makes steering more difficult,
especially if you're used to the wide handlebar of a mountainbike. Also, not everyone likes
having to bend forward in a

descent;

Quoted message said:

a flat bar increases drag and makes coasting feel safer, or just plain

safer

Quoted message said:

period.

It bothers me that while 'bike fit' is always mentioned as the most important factor in choosing
a bike, few people consider handlebar fit

to

Quoted message said:

be

Quoted message said:

anything beyond the width of a drop bar. Sometimes, a flat handlebar is

the

Quoted message said:

best solution, in spite of the fact that it does not give the most aerodynamic position. A
multiposition handlebar also gives a lot of variation, without having to bend forward. A road
bike is not 'better'

than

Quoted message said:

a hybrid or 'fittness bike'.

Jonathan.

Jonathan you must be on drugs to come up with this BS. I own six bikes

from

Quoted message said:

a road bicycle to a mountain bicycle and everything in between. There is simply no compairing a
road bike to a mountain bike in efficiency. To use

a

Quoted message said:

car analogy a road bike is like driving a Ferrari and a mountain bike is like driving a four wheel
drive truck. Road bikes are designed for traveling long distances quickly while mountain bikes are
designed for off road use. People that ride mountain bikes on the road aren't using the

best

Quoted message said:

tool for the job. I can easily travel 2 to 3 mph faster on a road bike

than

Quoted message said:

on a mountain bike.

You could fit a road bike with a straight handle bar but once again why would you want to. The
straight bar means that you are going to be

catching

Quoted message said:

a lot more air when riding and is not any more confortable than drop bars once you get used to
them. Most road races are 60 miles long or more with the pros doing 120 miles or longer. Contrast
this with mountain bike

races

Quoted message said:

and I think you start to wonder why some people think road bikes are uncomfortabe compared to
mountain bikes.